I seem to be a better shot from prone

[MCMXI]

All of my early shooting was prone and with no sling, no jacket, and often no mat to lay on. It always seemed to be dreary and cold when we went to the range. Our typical range session included being yelled at by the school caretaker Captain Strongman who had served in the British Army during WWII, or Mr. Bachelor who had been an officer in charge of a Gurkha regiment in India during the war. No. 4, Mk2 Lee-Enfields, five rounds of .303 British in a stripper clip, brass butt plates, and LOAD!!!! For many the stress was almost too much to handle.

We always laughed as Captain Strongman would walk down the line, stand in front of each cadet, call us to attention and have us declare "I have no live rounds or empty cases in my possession, Sir!" We could all clearly hear the brass cases bouncing around in our pockets as we snapped to attention.

Yep, I've always liked shooting prone, and ideally with a sling since for me it's a very stable position. The problem with hunting in Montana though is that you won't see anything but grass doing that. I need to practice improvised positions, shooting sticks and such. I used the A-pillar of a pickup truck for support to make a standing shot at a deer a little over 200 yards out last November. I was shooting a POF P308 with a suppressor and Premier Reticles 34mm scope mounted so it was a heavy setup. I would much rather have been prone on a bipod but the deer was at least 60 feet above me so there was no way to lay down behind the rifle. Come to think of it, I've only shot one deer from prone and that was using an Accuracy International AW with an Atlas bipod and in about 12" of snow.

 

[doubleh]

Those are tough.

Ha,ha,ha. I have an inversion table and use it as much as four times a day. I go to the gym three or four times a week. I go to the chiropractor twice a month. I'm also deep into my eighty-third trip around the sun and would simply break into small pieces if I attempted to do that. I've learned my limits and they just keep decreasing despite all my efforts to halt the slide. The person that first said "time is on your side" was full of baloney.

 

[Nature Boy]

Captain Strongman

You have no choice but to be a badass to live up to a name like that. Awesome story

 

[MCMXI]

You have no choice but to be a badass to live up to a name like that. Awesome story

He was a scary man for sure when we were in uniform and he treated us all like we were under his command in the infantry. He'd seen plenty of action in WWII and walked with a limp due to being hit by shrapnel. He could run a Lee-Enfield faster than anyone I've ever seen and he was a lefty shooting the rifle from his right shoulder. He'd reach over the top of the receiver with his left hand to run the bolt ... it was amazing to watch.

 

[Mr. Zorg]

There is no contradiction. Why are you pretending that there is?

For the record, as shown, I never posted any contradiction existed. I never challenged what "most" was. I posted accurate facts about the specific program I participated in, and the BSA program my brother participated in.

There is no contradiction. Why are you pretending that there is?

Additionally, I posted 100% accurate information about myself, as shown.

An honestly objective review shows of myself, @Varminterror, and @JohnKSa, I was the only member of that trio NOT pretending.

 

[Walkalong]

Different kinds of "Bench" shooting as well. This bipod and loose fill bag set up is much
different then my old Benchrest set up with a solid front rest and stable rear bag with ears.


Old setup in my bench box. Very, very, stable.

 

[JohnKSa]

For the record, as shown, I never posted any contradiction existed.

Ok, I guess I totally misread your posts. You kept making a point that the training was NOT BSA/4H as if that was important so I assumed you meant something by it and the only thing that made sense to me was that you were trying to contradict him given the context and your repeated emphasis that your training was NOT BSA/4H.

An honestly objective review shows of myself, @Varminterror, and @JohnKSa, I was the only member of that trio NOT pretending.

I have to say that at this point I honestly have no idea where you're coming from. I've read through the exchange and, as an NRA instructor, myself, I can tell you that everything Varminterror told you about the various NRA classes/training and programs is true. If you think that either he or I are pretending, I don't know what to tell you.

Maybe we can try from the start again:

Why doesn't the NRA Basic Rifle training program today include shooting from all 4 the basic positions on the range as well as being in the book now, and nothing about using a sling in the range exercises?

It does. In fact the official course material/syllabus includes shooting from 5 positions and does include the use of the sling.

Well, FYI I took a NRA Basic Rifle course for brush-up just last year here in San Antonio, Texas, and I know exactly what was covered, and I was not the only student in that class, and I discussed these points with the NRA instructor.

You know what was covered in the class you took from the instructor who taught it, but, based on your comments and a knowledge of the official course material, that class did not cover the entire official course material that should have been taught per the official syllabus of the course. Notice that this does not imply you don't know what was taught in the class you attended, but it does mean that the class you attended did not cover all the material that should have been included per the official course materials.

And the training I received as a youth was NOT a part of BSA nor 4H.

That makes sense. It was not exclusively offered in association with BSA/4H so it's certainly possible that you participated in the program without being involved with either of those organizations.

We received metal badges that my parents paid for.

The materials you have posted pictures of are from the NRA Marksmanship Qualification Program which is still offered today, but is distinct from the NRA Basic Rifle Class. It is an incentive program primarily targeting youth shooters. I ran one of these programs at a gun club where I used to be a member and still have some of the materials (medals/bars/patches) around here somewhere.

 

[Mr. Zorg]

OK, I too will try to explain again.

Since I was NOT pretending there was a contradiction between my posts and the statements made about "most" programs, plain & simple, it was in fact both you and @Varminterror pretending I posted there was a conflict between my posts of the NRA Youth program I participated in and "most" programs - hence my quote of your post asking why I was pretending there was such a contradiction into my most recent posts,. That's where I'm coming from. It's really that simple.

The NRA Youth program I participated in was associated at least in part with the firefighters working for The City of Corpus Christi, and also by The City of Corpus Christi itself allowing an area of a public taxpayer funded emergency service be converted into a .22RF rifle range, and allowing discharge of firearms within the city limits at that specific property owned and maintained through The City of Corpus Christi. Some law enforcement personnel were also involved and present. Imagine that, a city government and employees facilitating providing education and training of youth to use firearms, in 1970's South Texas. Law enforcement only had an outdoor range up until shortly before I joined that program, and in the separate BSA group I was in, we actually camped out once at the former law enforcement range. I was among those campers collecting lead wadcutters and putting them in an empty aluminum soda can (in the days of aluminum beverage cans having pull rings) and melting the lead I put in the can by burying the can top up in the campfire embers overnight.

That old fire station is no longer on Google maps as a fire station, and the former outdoor law enforcement training range I camped out at while in the BSA is a developed residential sorta McMansion neighborhood.

I do not nor ever claimed to have any knowledge or even a position on "most" programs. I do have first person familiarity with the programs I directly participated in, and a kinda arms length secondhand knowledge of the program associated with the BSA my brother participated in.

There were no requirements for anyone of any age to have a Texas Hunter Safety card to hunt in Texas when I obtained my certification. There were two states that did for hunters under 18 years of age we were informed about at that time. Colorado was one IIRC, I honestly don't remember what the other state was. I laminated my green card and it still rides around in my wallet. I'm in the database and have downloaded electronic proof of certification to my phone as a pdf file as well. I'm still exempt from being required to have that certification based on my birthday, bit I'm still glad I completed the requirements. My brother never did because he didn't go hunting with me and our father, and he's still exempt from the requirement based on his birthday as well.


The Ignore feature exists here for a reason. Is it allowed to put staff members who demonstrate a bias against a member posting 100% factual material on that member's Ignore list?

 

[Varminterror]

@Mr. Zorg - As I stated in my private message, it was not my intention to claim your memories weren’t accurate, but rather to clarify two things: 1) the type of program you went through, as you had misidentified it, and 2) clarify that the current programs still require positional and sling shooting, despite your claim they do not. It is unfortunate that you are unable to objectively read others posts, as both @JohnKSa and I have provided information confirming your memories, and equally correcting the slight misalignment between your recollection and the actual NRA programs.

Again - as I said in my first, without question, the long-term program you participated in as a kid was following the syllabus of the (then) Winchester/NRA Marksmanship Qualification Program (Winchester has now left the party). There is no contradiction between your memory and the statements I’ve made, other than your original implication this was the Basics of Rifle Shooting course (and the fact I said these were “often” offered through BSA or 4H, and now you’re quoting “most”). You were participating in the NRA Marksmanship Qualification program, regardless of what underwriting organization hosted it, which is not the same as the NRA Basics of Rifle Shooting course as you implied. Which was the reason for my original post.

Second, I posted to correct your claim that the current NRA Basics of Rifle Shooting course and it’s corresponding book don’t include classic positional or sling shooting was incorrect. When you provided additional information in a follow up post that you have been to an NRA BoRS class which did not include positional or sling instruction, I asked you to provide the name of the instructor, both in this thread and in private message, you’ve refused to do so. If your instructor did NOT follow the syllabus provided to him, then he did not teach an NRA Basics of Rifle Shooting course, and he’s in violation of policy to call it such. NRA Training HQ needs to know when they have rogue instructors pedaling poor quality classes which don’t meet their requirements, so it s unfortunate you are unwilling to help the NRA weed out this bad seed.

But the bottom line is this: classic positional shooting remains important for marksman development, such the content you claimed is no longer included is, in fact, still the backbone of the NRA Basics of Rifle Shooting course, and remains, as it always has, the foundation of the NRA Marksmanship Qualification Program’s 4 Position Rifle Course of Fire. Nothing has changed, in that regard, despite your ardent assertion that something has.