I think Slob hunters are winning....

[Rembrandt]

I've been a Hunter Education Instructor for nearly 25 years, always optimistic that proper education will triumph over the "Slob Hunters". Now I'm not so sure.

Each time I went hunting this year I've seen tresspassing, game law violations, poaching, license fraud, and careless firearm handling. Slobs stealing treestands, cameras, shooting up signs and property, it never ends.

As a property owner I'm spending more time keeping tresspassers off my land than taking enjoyment in the hunt.

It has now become easier to find violations than to find ethical hunters doing the right thing. Sad as it may seem, I think the Slob hunters are winning the ethical battle.

 

[dracphelan]

I think this is a sign of the deeper problems in American society. We've gone from a society where you are expected to treat others (and their property) with politeness and respect to a society where most people ask what is in it for me. There was a time where, in the majority of this country, someone making rude/crude comments to a stranger would be called on it by other strangers. Instead, we get the attitude of "it's not my business". People are taught (often by the media) that it is dangerous or wrong to call someone on their actions. When children act out, we are told not to punish them because it would "danage their self-esteem". The USA is on a downslope to collapse.

 

[Twycross]

It's just human nature combined with basic sociological training. Unethical people are not going to be reformed by a few weeks of a hunter's ed class.

 

[rust collector]

The pendulum will swing...

The roaring twenties happened well before I did, but it seems to me that most versions of civilization appear to vacillate between hedonism and austerity, panic and complacency, wisdom and insanity. Right now our society seems to be focusing on instant gratification. My son couldn't imagine having to wait more than ten minutes to get a meal. My daughter would like to have all the comforts she grew up with, and my Christmas shopping took all of 25 minutes on Amazon.com (haven't placed the order yet--still would like to find something locally).

We can make a difference, but will we? I can talk to my hunter safety students untill I'm blue in the face about ethics, stewardship, game management and laws. But I won't be there when they see that big buck across the fence and have a tough decision to make. And I can't overcome the influence of Uncle Bob who hunts with a beer and a loaded gun beside him on the seat.

The best tool we have is our example, so my kids see me clean up litter, always handle guns carefully, and always treat other humans with respect. Maybe it doesn't register now, but it will someday. Have to keep the vision.

 

[Greybeard]

Quote: "Unethical people are not going to be reformed by a few weeks of a hunter's ed class."

' Afraid here it's not anywhere close to that long. Law here sez class must be minimum of 10 hours over a minimum of 2 days ... And semi-new internet "home study option" can count for one day of that ... Therefore, with most of my students, about 5 hours is all we have for influence the rest of their life ...

Saw a sad scene on the side of remote highway a month or so ago. A driver had hit what must have been a pretty nice buck around 5:00 a.m. He was pretty shaken up (the first excuse), running late getting to his duck blind and took his good, easy time about reporting hit. When I checked it out right after noon, some Jack A double crooked letter had chopped off the head and the coyotes had got started on the rump.

 

[JohnBT]

I'd say the coyotes got the better end of the deal unless there's some new recipe out for cooking deer heads.

And speaking of lazy good for nothing slobs, what is it with road hunting? Are they too lazy to carry their beer and liquor into the woods?

John

 

[22-rimfire]

Slob and unethical hunters are just acting on the fundamental training that they received as young children. Not saying all lack respect for other people or their property. But, it seems to be a national problem. Just look at how much litter is tossed out along our highways. Heck I even have to pick stuff up in my front yard ocasionally. The result are more "No Tresspassing" signs and less and less land that is available to hunt on no matter who you are.

The Hunter's Ed classes are still a good start. But, most of the fundamental principles regarding ethics and respect have already been formed prior to the class.

 

[Polishrifleman]

Slob Period

I think you are talking about 2 different issues. They have been coverd by the previous posters. I will add a little, Some people just don't understand or know better especially in regards to hunting regulations. What read a book about what I can and can't do, don't I just go shoot the first thing I see.

It happened to me for the first time this year, I had a buddy up from the South to go deer hunting. It is a 3pt minnimum unit we were hunting which I told him. He is a hunter so no further conversation was had, two days later shots fired, radio communication,

"where are you" about 1/4 mile below you I think "what did you get" a nice little 4pt "I'll head down and see what the best way out is" ok.... I finally find him standing proudly over a 2x2 small discussion ensues about 3pt minnimum and you have a 2pt. Learning experience for me that we all don't count points the same.:banghead:

Who is at fault, what do you ethically do?

When I took hunter ed. back in the late 70's (when it wasn't required except by my parents) my instructor talked of poaching to feed his family and how it was against the law and he took a big risk but he had to do what he felt was most important which was put food on the table.

In a similar situation what would you do knowing you had the means to feed your family?

A lot of gun owners/hunters feel they should be left alone, unfortunately this isn't always the best case and there need to be rules and regulations which there are.

The destruction of personal property and trespassing are another topic and owning a chunck of paradise that I get to once every 2 months except durning the winter has taught me many a lesson about that!!

 

[arjppj]

my grandfather had a problem with people coming through his field and shooting close to his house, so he found the trail they were making and set up A LOT of mouse traps..at 4 am it can kinda scare the crap out of you. If that wont do it for you just put up a lot of posted signs and some leg-hold traps.

 

[f4t9r]

I think this is a sign of the deeper problems in American society. We've gone from a society where you are expected to treat others (and their property) with politeness and respect to a society where most people ask what is in it for me. There was a time where, in the majority of this country, someone making rude/crude comments to a stranger would be called on it by other strangers. Instead, we get the attitude of "it's not my business". People are taught (often by the media) that it is dangerous or wrong to call someone on their actions. When children act out, we are told not to punish them because it would "danage their self-esteem". The USA is on a downslope to collapse.

A Big +1

 

[454c]

I don't think the slob hunters are winning,they just "stand out from the crowd".You don't see the ethical hunters 'cause they stay on their side of the fence and do what they should do.

 

[fisherman66]

Graybeard;

I think you were my instructor, or was trained at your place.

Lonnie is the name I am pulling up.

 

[dakotasin]

dracphelan and f4t9r... i think going from some poor hunter-ethics to the collapse of the usa is a pretty big jump. as mentioned, i think you just notice the slobs.

rust collector- we can make a difference within our circle, but beyond that, we need help. specifically, it would be awfully nice to see a game warden once in a blue moon, and better yet if they would actually cite some abuses. the only time i ever see any game wardens is when they are doing their p.r. stuff out at cabela's. i've called them w/ descriptions, i've called them when i knew things were going on, etc, and they can't be bothered to check it out. if they don't care about it, there is no threat of 'getting in trouble', which removes a lot of inhibitions from many. if the wardens were actually out actively pursuing sloppy behavior, it would decrease exponentially at first, then logarithmically later (because many would've learned)...

 

[redneck2]

When I took hunter ed. back in the late 70's (when it wasn't required except by my parents) my instructor talked of poaching to feed his family and how it was against the law and he took a big risk but he had to do what he felt was most important which was put food on the table.

This is typically a load of crap that poachers spew to justify breaking game laws. They're too freakin lazy to get a job but they'll drive around all night drinking beer and poaching the deer I paid to legally hunt. They'll spend 3 nights to poach one deer. If they'd get a job, they could have earned plenty of money to buy groceries.

Don't give me this load of crap about feeding your family. Get a job like everyone else. If I find you, I'll turn you in, and if you're on my land, you'd better to be able to move REAL fast

They're thieves pure and simple

(rant off..)

as for the "slob hunters"...you used to be able to find places to hunt without too much problem. Now with all the urban sprawl, lawsuits, etc. it's very difficult unless you own land. And yes, I agree that people are into the "it's all about me". Respect for others, elders, parents has pretty much disappeared

 

[Greybeard]

Fisherman - Yep, likely me. Or possibly Jim or Chaz. Sorry if I can't place ya. Up pushing the 3,000 mark now. Did 7 more last night in the ice and wind. Maxed out tonight (bbbbbrrrrrrrrrrr ....) with 9. But, it'll slow down soon. Then gonna try to chase more quailie birds.

 

[Larry Ashcraft]

The first year we owned our little place, we were gathering firewood by the river and found a freshly killed Great Horned Owl. Somebody had blown its head off with a high powered rifle.

And hunters wonder why they can't get on private property anymore...

 

[bean357]

. i've called them w/ descriptions, i've called them when i knew things were going on, etc, and they can't be bothered to check it out. if they don't care about it, there is no threat of 'getting in trouble', which removes a lot of inhibitions from many.

A BIG +1!
I've hunted hard through both slug seasons and muzzleloader seasons....also put in some time with the bow, and I have YET to see a warden --period. Have not even met one on the road.

 

[Larry Ashcraft]

have YET to see a warden --period

They must all be in Colorado. They even canoe down the river here checking duck hunters. I've heard of several people "dusking" or doing other illegal activities getting caught because the DOW people have spotting scopes and use them well.

 

[Guns_and_Labs]

It must be a regional thing, or I'm just not seeing the slobs. I do see some trying to hunt private land, but the landowners and the law seem to cooperate pretty well at making that a poor choice. And the only drunk hunter I have seen in the last couple of years was one that was disarmed by his buddies, and tied around a tree for punishment.

I've come across the game wardens almost every time I hunt in the western states. I welcome it, because several times they've pointed me towards some really good areas.

It must be tough to be a Hunter Ed teacher, and see what you're describing. But take heart, there are some who are listening.

 

[ScreamnEagle]

The people that are "Slob Hunters" also give people like you and I a bad rap. Im am only 18 but I still don't poach, lie about my deer I've killed, or hunt on someones elses land without asking first. I think the reason it is getting harder and harder to find places to hunt is just the simple fact peole have no respect of the land owners land, or the animals they are hunting. I do A LOT of coyote hunting here in souther Oklahoma, it is getting harder and harder to find people that will let you hunt on ther land, and SLOB HUNTERS is the reason, people never hear about hunters like me who leave just as i came, if not better, all you hear about is the people who trashed the mans field or just flat out did ask to hunt. I feel here in the near future i may no longer be able to hunt coyotes, i am already running out of places to go,

 

[Cosmoline]

I'm always surprised by how much "hunting" in the midwest isn't really what we'd consider hunting. It's apparently got more to do with socializing and beer drinking. For example, all the "hunters" who ran into that Hmong fellow with the SKS. Only one of them was even armed.

 

[Guns_and_Labs]

For example, all the "hunters" who ran into that Hmong fellow with the SKS. Only one of them was even armed.

I did kind of wonder about that.

 

[454c]

A BIG +1!
I've hunted hard through both slug seasons and muzzleloader seasons....also put in some time with the bow, and I have YET to see a warden --period. Have not even met one on the road.

It's possible they may not want to be seen.

 

[Bigreno]

Screamneagle^

I know what you mean. I am just south of you in Wichita County,Texas and it seems to be increasingly difficult to find places to hunt here. Back 10 years ago or so I probably had 10,000 acres spead around that I had access too. I laid off hunting for a few years and now that I am back into it I keep hearing stories from land owners about the guy that shot their steer or left trash thrown about so now they don't allow hunters on their property. It's a very disheartening vision of where our society has gone. It just seems so simple to me; give respect to others and get respect in return.

This is not to say that the majority of hunters around here are "slob hunters". It's just that they are the ones that everyone remembers and ruin it for the rest of us.