I think we should invite anti's to visit The High Road...

[cuchulainn]

There's enough waxing about JBT-SHTF-TEOWAWKI-voting-from-the-rooftops-molon-labe-blood-of-tyrants to confirm their prejudices.

 

[CAPTAIN MIKE]

Yeah, but it would be FUN to Visit THEIR Sites Too

I agree. Most people here are pretty civil. It would shock and bemoan the Anti crowd to find out that most of us are not the drooling, knuckle dragging, backwards, anti-social types they have portrayed us as.

I mean we represent a much more Mainstream viewpoint than they think. If we visit several anti sites, post some good common sense stuff and engage them by challenging their assumptions about us and our horrible mean tools that kill people by themselves, it might be a good thing.

Any suggestions on where to start???

 

[CAPTAIN MIKE]

Yeah, but it would be FUN to Visit THEIR Sites Too

I agree. Most people here are pretty civil. It would shock and bemoan the Anti crowd to find out that most of us are not the drooling, knuckle dragging, backwards, anti-social types they have portrayed us as.

I mean we represent a much more Mainstream viewpoint than they think. If we visit several anti sites, post some good common sense stuff and engage them by challenging their assumptions about us and our horrible mean tools that kill people by themselves, it might be a good thing.

Any suggestions on where to start???

 

[Sparks]

Yes.

Now see, I'd have a problem with that assessment, because I'm not anti-gun. I've got a medal in the trophy case from winning a national chamionship, I've organised matches, I ran and helped to run my college rifle club for six years, I've trained more kids to shoot safely than I've been able to keep count of, and I've acted as the PR officer for the national governing body for target shooting in Ireland for a total of two years now, and gotten a lot of coverage for our sport and also set up our website. But our legal situation requires certain realities to be accepted in order to do that job properly. Idealism just doesn't get stuff done over here.

So despite all that, because I don't mind not having an RKBA and not knowing if CCW would work in my country (which is very different from yours, don't forget), I'm classed as an anti. (And anti-what, btw?).

Doesn't seem logical to me.

 

[jfh]

sparks, it seems to me that you

are the prototypical shooter from a country, who has an exemplary history and set of shooter attitudes, and who also doesn't have political values that were forged in the US Revolution. So, personally, I wouldn't call you an anti--and if I ever get back to Ireland, I will probably look you up. If I do, I will probably try to help spread US-style Democracy to your country.

Having said that, we are talking in THR's Legal and Political Forum. Here, no matter how civil we are, there is that underlying assumption that we are a group of people with extremely similar perspectives--one of which is that firearms are the bottom-line right of citizens. It is so imbued in us that, at times, we consider anyone NOT living with that kind of thinking is an "anti," no matter where they come from.

If you can understand that, it will probably make it easier to understand the speakers here. We're not closed-minded--but we have a ferocious mindset, and woe be unto any political group who wishes to change our status or our mindset--except to make it easier to own and use firearms for all reasons.

 

[dustind]

Sparks: Thank you for doing what you do, but if you lived where I live I would consider you an anti gun person. Living where you live you are probably considered pro gun. The only important thing is what direction someone is trying to move things. Thus you are pro gun.

Yes we should invite antis. Many can be converted to our side. If they can not be converted many will stop pushing for gun control, or begin to question their stance if we show them our point of view, and point out some basic facts. Once we convert them we can teach them the best ways to kill zombies to help us out in the comming invasion.

 

[mbs357]

Where to start? Start with the places I hang out, [removed]*
Towards the bottom of the thread you'll see a person named Pelops~ describe a situation...I am posting under "Ihes".
This stims from a thread posted in the private section of the forum about the same subject where I quote statistics and show graphs and snazzy stuff and this same person calls me pedantic...
>_<
(Not that I'm implying to come help me out, it's just that I like THR and I wouldn't want an influx of people like this here...)
Also, your political party isn't what you say it is, it's what your beliefs are. =/

Also, Dustin, the other day I realised I was more prepared for a zombie invasion than a home invasion...talk about a wake up call.
*Come to think of it, a possible influx of people might not be good for the server. =p If anyone cares, PM me or something...

 

[beerslurpy]

Sparks, you would be considered an anti for voicing your views in Florida, but in the UK you are probably about as pro-gun as one can get without getting funny looks.

Concealed carry and ownership of evil black rifles/shotguns is fairly commonplace here. Owning guns without belonging to a shooting club is considered normal. Shooting burglars is considered a reasonable act of a civilized person although people would likely have sympathy for the homeowner for having to go through such a traumatic event. There wouldnt be any condemnation for harming the burglar I dont think.

 

[Sparks]

Concealed carry and ownership of evil black rifles/shotguns is fairly commonplace here.

The former isn't permitted here, or in the UK, and there's a fair debate (as in, good arguments on both sides) as to whether it'd be a good idea for us given our political situation.
The latter isn't "fairly commonplace", more "not uncommon". Most of the firearms in Ireland are shotguns, and most of those are "standard" models. There are a fair few M3s about though.

Owning guns without belonging to a shooting club is considered normal.

Same here again. Out of 100-120,000 estimated shooters, only about 35,000 would be involved in clubs of one form or another, and they're either game conservation clubs (you don't just hunt the pheasants, you stock them as well, being the idea), or target shooting clubs.

There wouldnt be any condemnation for harming the burglar I dont think.

Same's true over here, so long as it was genuinely necessary for self-defence. Killing someone over a stolen toaster though, would be seen as being unnecessary and maybe even over the line, depending on the circumstances.
Same's true in the UK, despite the rumours (in 15 years, only 11 people who claimed self-defence were convicted of murder, and these cases were usually very clearly over the line - like one chap who knocked out a burglar, tied him up and then set fire to him).
The main difference, is that generally firearms aren't given out exclusively for self-defence (though there's an awful lot of 870s and M3s out there being used for informal trap shooting and duck hunting, and buckshot's not that hard to come by) - though there are exceptions, like in N.Ireland where there are some 12,000 personal protection weapons at the moment.
Personally, I hate the idea of shooting at a human or even a human shaped target, irregardless of what you shoot at it with - gun, bow, throwing knife, whatever. But that's me, I'm a long-haired, tree-hugging, free-lovin', commie pinko liberal hippie
But if you want to do it over here, and it's not illegal, then you have a constitutional right to do it (sort of like the US right to the pursuit of happiness thing). There is an organisational hiccup because the IPSC and ISSF aren't talkative over the whole Olympic Games issue, so the organisations must remain seperate, but the shooters can shoot whatever they want (there's a practical pistol club starting up at the moment).

 

[Mulliga]

The main difference, is that generally firearms aren't given out exclusively for self-defence

The main difference here is that firearms aren't given out at all. True, we have to go through an unconstitutional background check that amounts to a pseudoregistration, but we don't have to get a license to purchase a gun (in most states), and private sales are relatively unencumbered (again, in most states).

If the stranger in your house was a burglar after your toaster or a rapist after your wife, how could you tell the difference in the split second it takes for him to draw a weapon and attack? No one wants to have to stop someone with lethal force, but that should be an option for all human beings.

Sparks, you're not a commie , and I really appreciate your efforts and all the shooters on the other side of the pond keeping the tradition of shooting alive, but yes, your ideas are fairly antigun from a U.S. point of view. Licensing of guns and abolition of concealed carry would be relatively unthinkable here (again, in most states).

 

[jnojr]

On having "antis" around - I think we need to be aware of what they're saying, so as to be able to counter it. We need to know what the "worst gun of the month" is, so when they start introducing more legislation, we aren't caught by surprise. It's foolish to say "I don't agree with you, so I'm going to put my hands over my ears and say LALALALALA whenever you talk".

But consider... whatever degree of probability there is that Hillary Clinton could get me to agree with her point of view, the reverse is true as well. We will never get the hard-core anti to agree that we're right and they've been wrong. They already know they're right, and all the facts in the world is just "lies and statistics" to them.

Our best hop in changing public opinion is getting through to the undecided middle. However, they're undecided because they just don't care that much... the only way to get through to them is probably the positive reinforcement of taking them to the range.

 

[thorn726]

i have shown this site to some fence sitters, not anits (yet)
you guys really make people think.

i would say MOst of the comments here would do more to help our argument with antis than hurt.

it's gonna get interesting in the coming months with the Sf fight, i am going to be showing a lot of people stuff from here.

 

[RealGun]

The ignore lists would become too congested.

 

[Cosmoline]

In my youth I was a hard-core anti. So I have some real sympathy for them. Foreign shooters aren't really in the same category. If you grow up in a society where the notion of a RIGHT to keep and bear arms is seen as absurd, you will likely have those views ingrained in you. Even if you're a shooter, you will still likely see yourself as having BEEN GIVEN a PRIVILEGE to own a firearm under restrictions.

 

[Sheslinger]

I know many anti's have a very distorted image of gun owners, and I think maybe if they hung around the site for a while they'd see that we're actually very logical, intelligent, and responsible people.

Yep. Just direct them straight to the Star Wars vs Star Trek thread.

 

[thorn726]

Star Wars vs Star Trek thread

what?

gimme a break, it's all about Gi Joe.