Geckgo
Member
Sometimes I wonder if people in rome spent as much time arguing about the capability of their weapons and whether they could get a one shot stop with their spears/arrows.
I wander if people had this much fun with arrows and spears
- Thread starter Geckgo
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Furncliff
Member
Bet on it.
jcwit
member
Arguing? Na, exaggerateing? More than likely, just like today.
lizziedog1
Member
yes
I bet an early caveman probably rubbed charcoal all over his spear and came up with the first tactical weapon.
I bet an early caveman probably rubbed charcoal all over his spear and came up with the first tactical weapon.
Geckgo
Member
This is my tactical club. Me have um kill sabertooth with one hit. Me eat kitty. Kitty no not where me club from.
Spec ops Grunt
Member
I like club. Club never break. Club not like flimsy spear. Don't want to have sharpen spear after every kill. Club just works.
"With my newfangled lighter spear design with greater ergos I can easily put 5 spears into a Spartan at 30 paces... I wonder what that force is that keeps pulling them back down to the ground?
"My arrows have a much improved edge and shape that allow them to fly better. I think i will call it a Jupiter Coefficient.... na, that sounds strange... where is Pythagoras when you need him?
Then comes the Austrian soldier with the Glock to ruin everyone's day.
"My arrows have a much improved edge and shape that allow them to fly better. I think i will call it a Jupiter Coefficient.... na, that sounds strange... where is Pythagoras when you need him?
Then comes the Austrian soldier with the Glock to ruin everyone's day.
Well, they were people, so I'm sure that they did.
KodiakBeer
member
Me have long heavy magnum club made of strong tree. Me whack mastodon. Me heavy mastodon club is very long so even though heavy, swing at high velocity so have Tay-Lor KO power of... of... of... more than fingers.
Me laugh at your little sabertooth club. It look like my girl-childs club.
cambeul41
Member
Don't forget the atlatl versus heavy spear controversy!
Geckgo
Member
rock = slow and heavy
spear = light and fast
spear = light and fast
RogueLeader
Member
If they didn't have those arguments back then, I guess we'd have never heard of gladiators or the olympic games. And Robin Hood would have never had to enter the tournaments.
Geckgo
Member
Suddenly I'm reminded of the stealth catapult in "Men in Tights"
Jim Watson
Member
Probably not.
In 1457 the Scottish parliament and King James II banned golf because it interfered with military training. More fun to whack a little ball than to work on archery and swordsmanship.
In 1457 the Scottish parliament and King James II banned golf because it interfered with military training. More fun to whack a little ball than to work on archery and swordsmanship.
hammerklavier
Member
In the feudal system, bows were considered the weapon of cowards and common rabble, a gentleman knight would never use one (although he was quite happy to have a strong contingent of them show up to fight on his side).
Unistat
Member
I have long contended that the aspects that draw people to golf, are also appliciable to shooting. Not sure which is more expensive though.
Unistat
Member
Until Agincourt.
Taillebois
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"I have known a gentleman hurt in rapier fight, in nine or ten places through the body, arms, and legs, and yet has continued in his fight, & afterward has slain the other, and come home and has been cured of all his wounds without maim, & is yet living. But the blow being strongly made, takes sometimes clean away the hand from the arm, has many times been seen(12). Again, a full blow upon the head or face with a short sharp sword, is most commonly death. A full blow upon the neck, shoulder, arm, or leg, endangers life, cuts off the veins, muscles, and sinews, perishes the bones: these wounds made by the blow, in respect of perfect healing, are the loss of limbs, or maims incurable forever.
And yet more for the blow: a full blow upon the head, face, arm, leg, or legs, is death, or the party so wounded in the mercy of him that shall so wound him. For what man shall be able long in fight to stand up, either to revenge, or defend himself, having the veins, muscles, sinews of his hand, arm, or leg clean cut asunder? Or being dismembered by such wound upon the face or head, but shall be enforced thereby, and through the loss of blood, the other a little dallying with him, to yield himself, or leave his life in his mercy?(13)"
George Silver 1599, explaining (or yelling) about the superiority of the English Cut and Thrust swords over the rapier...and he wrote an entire book about it all called "Parodoxes of Defense"
And the Italians and Spanish wrote entire books about how completely wrong Silver was, and how their long and pointy (and expensive) sewing needles got the job done better.
No doubt the surgeons, and the women who cleaned and dressed the bodies for burial had their own opinions...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
And incidentally one of the reasons the longbow came into dominance was it was cheaper to bring archers in large numbers than armoured knight. And by Agincourt the English crown was running out of money. By Verneuil however the archers were up against it, because of Italian mercenaries with specially hardened armor.
The big time of the longbow was before the cannon and into the development of effective hand guns. Weirdly enough in en masse fire the longbow could reach out to distances of 300 yards or so which is close to what average people today are capable of with a light rifle. And with 100 yrds or less it could penetrate most armors.
And yet more for the blow: a full blow upon the head, face, arm, leg, or legs, is death, or the party so wounded in the mercy of him that shall so wound him. For what man shall be able long in fight to stand up, either to revenge, or defend himself, having the veins, muscles, sinews of his hand, arm, or leg clean cut asunder? Or being dismembered by such wound upon the face or head, but shall be enforced thereby, and through the loss of blood, the other a little dallying with him, to yield himself, or leave his life in his mercy?(13)"
George Silver 1599, explaining (or yelling) about the superiority of the English Cut and Thrust swords over the rapier...and he wrote an entire book about it all called "Parodoxes of Defense"
And the Italians and Spanish wrote entire books about how completely wrong Silver was, and how their long and pointy (and expensive) sewing needles got the job done better.
No doubt the surgeons, and the women who cleaned and dressed the bodies for burial had their own opinions...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
And incidentally one of the reasons the longbow came into dominance was it was cheaper to bring archers in large numbers than armoured knight. And by Agincourt the English crown was running out of money. By Verneuil however the archers were up against it, because of Italian mercenaries with specially hardened armor.
The big time of the longbow was before the cannon and into the development of effective hand guns. Weirdly enough in en masse fire the longbow could reach out to distances of 300 yards or so which is close to what average people today are capable of with a light rifle. And with 100 yrds or less it could penetrate most armors.
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I bet an early caveman probably rubbed charcoal all over his spear and came up with the first tactical weapon.
You think he called it an assault spear after he did that?
I bet their bows and arrows actually had shoulder things that go up!
lizziedog1
Member
spear
Then California passed the first weapon's law by banning tactical spears and quivers that can hold more then ten arrows.
Then California passed the first weapon's law by banning tactical spears and quivers that can hold more then ten arrows.
benEzra
Moderator Emeritus
And not long after that came the first Cave Ninja, a frequent troll on all the around-the-campfire weapons forums...
InkEd
Member
I would be surprised if they DIDN'T argue about the best weapons. Once people's lives were settled enough beyond simply trying to survive until the next day, they looked for things to do with the extra time. Readily available things like tools and weapons got to serve a second purpose as implements of amusement. Use of tools whether for fun or utility, more accurately their shortcomings from that use, leads to innovation and advancement of design.
The most interesting paradox IMHO, is that now we do things for leisure with more advanced tools that people did in the past for survival with more primative tools. For example, if you brought a caveman to modern times put him in your "magic cave" full of things like packaged food, electricity, running water, et cetera and THEN tried to take him out into the woods for a "fun" weekend of bow hunting and sleeping in a tent; he would probably thing you are insane and try to kill you for dragging him back into the wilderness when doing so is completely optional for survival.
The most interesting paradox IMHO, is that now we do things for leisure with more advanced tools that people did in the past for survival with more primative tools. For example, if you brought a caveman to modern times put him in your "magic cave" full of things like packaged food, electricity, running water, et cetera and THEN tried to take him out into the woods for a "fun" weekend of bow hunting and sleeping in a tent; he would probably thing you are insane and try to kill you for dragging him back into the wilderness when doing so is completely optional for survival.
Taillebois
Member
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More specifically about the Roman's what they did was to argue about the weapons of others and adopt what had worked well agaisnt them.
The gladius was partially derived from the Iberian weapons. The Spatha indirectly arose from the long swords used by the Gauls. The Iberian Falcata was not generally adopted by the Roman's because it was not as suited for the close ranks tactics of the Roman's. The spatha was but largely because by that time many Roman troops were Gaullic.
Spears the Roman's had them like most other peoples, but the Pilum was more of a hybrid between the javilin and spear than it was a proper spear.
Roman armored calvery (very important in the later Eastern Roman Empire) was largely derived from Parthian influences.
One group which did handed the Roman's one of their worst military disasters (Arminius) was quite proficient with the spear...the source for today's word Germany was 'land of the spearmen".
The Roman's, especially after they began using auxilaries from different parts of the empire were weapons adoptive...they viewed their tactics and empire as superior but were quite willing to adopt what worked.
The Roman's no doubt had their discussions about weapons and which were better or worse but overall they'd be like the countries in the 20th century who'd freely adopted the maxim gun despite the fact it was not developed by their designers.
The gladius was partially derived from the Iberian weapons. The Spatha indirectly arose from the long swords used by the Gauls. The Iberian Falcata was not generally adopted by the Roman's because it was not as suited for the close ranks tactics of the Roman's. The spatha was but largely because by that time many Roman troops were Gaullic.
Spears the Roman's had them like most other peoples, but the Pilum was more of a hybrid between the javilin and spear than it was a proper spear.
Roman armored calvery (very important in the later Eastern Roman Empire) was largely derived from Parthian influences.
One group which did handed the Roman's one of their worst military disasters (Arminius) was quite proficient with the spear...the source for today's word Germany was 'land of the spearmen".
The Roman's, especially after they began using auxilaries from different parts of the empire were weapons adoptive...they viewed their tactics and empire as superior but were quite willing to adopt what worked.
The Roman's no doubt had their discussions about weapons and which were better or worse but overall they'd be like the countries in the 20th century who'd freely adopted the maxim gun despite the fact it was not developed by their designers.
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