I want .17 rimfire

[darkknight]

now the debate is between .17hmr vs .17hm2. i know the hmr's parent case is .22wmg and hm2 is a little bigger than the .22 stinger. i know the 17 hmr has more powder thus a more powerful round and is suppose to be more accurate. i know the hm2 can be created by swapping the bolt and bbl on any 10/22. My question is more about will both rounds (or which round) will be around for the next 15 years? ive heard the hmr may not be around to much longer, any truth to this. I know the hmr is anywhere from 4-10 dollars a box more over the hm2. so whats yalls opinions. i know a .22 would be cheaper but i think a .17 would be better for me. this is mostly gonna be used for plinking but may end up used for tree rats and rabbits (if ethical/possible). I also believe both fir 17 and 20g bullets. thanks for the help.

 

[Matt-J2]

Huh, usually it's the HM2 that seems to be close to extinction.
Personally, I don't see either going anywhere real soon. In 15 years, well, who can say that anything will be around that long?

If it's really for plinking and you want one of the .17, get the HM2. It's cheaper, and accurate in it's own right. Not out to the same ranges as the HMR, but still better than .22lr.
Past that, I'm still researching myself. Check out www.rimfirecentral.com, they have a section dedicated to .17s, lots of good info.

 

[Shawnee]

Get your .17 with plenty of ammo and enjoy it, and don't worry about which one is going to "be around" the longest. In 15 years (or less) your right to have a firearm won't be around anyway.

 

[cat_IT_guy]

They are both fun little rounds. I like the .17hmr because it is accurate and powerful still at 100yards. It bucks the wind a little better than the .17m2 as well because of the added velocity. However, if most of your intended shooting is inside of 100 yards, you would probably be better served by the m2 b/c of the cheaper ammo. If you dont have a .22, I vote m2, otherwise, get the hmr.

 

[skinewmexico]

Love my Savage in 17 HMR. Shot a 50 yards, 5 shot group measing .287" with it. Deadly on big jacks.

 

[tallpaul]

Just grabbed a savage HMR a month or so back... I like it so far. I had to choose like you and figured that in reality the mag was better for me. Longer range and for hunting it has a decent rep. I have several .22 lr for close in and "cheap" plinking. Having said that a barrel swap in my 10/22 for the 17m2 is tempting

 

[Quigley]

I have both the 22 Mag and 17 HMR. I think they both will be around for some time if either was in trouble of extintion I would say we would see the 22 Mag go first. Don't get me wrong I realy like the 22 Mag but I shoot the 17 HMR probably 200/1 over it. Look at the ammo shelf of your favorite shooting store you might find 22 Mag but will surely find 3 or 4 different HMR options.

 

[ImARugerFan]

I think the HMRs are a lot more common than the HM2s, if either were to become hard to find, I think it'd be the HM2.

 

[stalkingbear]

17

I've tried both the 17s for hunting and in my humble opinion,they are almost useless for MY types of hunting with PRESENT choice of bullets available. To begin with,the bullets are too destructive for rabbit and squirrel. Yes I realize that with head shots they would work but let's be honest here-who can honestly state that they can pick every single shot to strike the head only? Also I've tried the 17s for larger varmits and they failed miserably on about 50% of shots out to 150 yards. Sure,they'll knock a coyote or groundhog down,but I've had too many get back up and either go down hole(groundhogs) or get back up and run to the next time zone before expiring if at all(coyotes). My choice for hunting other than .22Lr is the good old .22 magnum. I was amazed upon learning the wound channel of a .22 mag solid point fmj bullet is exactly same would channel left by a .22Lr hp.

 

[rangerruck]

I have both , and like both. Origionally , I had 4 17's and 1 mach 2. I now have 3 mach2's, and just 1 17hmr. Also the mach 2 will fire the 17Aguila/pmc/hi-standard. a mach 2 is faster at 100 yds, than a 22 is at the muzzle. a mach 2 zero'd at 100 yds, only drops about 5 inches at 150 and about 11 to 12 inches at 200 yds. The Eley/remington line of mach 2 is loaded the hottest, and the best. the 17hmr is about 1/2 the trajectory of the above.
a 17hmr will cleanly kill , with a good shot, a coyote within 100 yds.
a 22 mag has more energy out to 80 yds, after80 yds, the 17hmr takes over in all categories, simply because of it's speed.
Most guys, with good made bbls, are getting 2600 fps from their 17's, and some dudes, with really good custom made bbls, are approaching the 2700 fps mark. This is centerfire speeds.
the mach 2 eley is going about 2200fps from the muzzle, some are getting close to 2300. the 17 aggie is doing about 1900 fps from the muzzle, but it is a true'
20 grain fmjbt bullet, and is a penetrator, and a meat saver, and pelt saver.
the other 17 vmax type bullets tend to blow things up!!!
Go over to http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/
they also make the 17hmr in a 20 grain fmj, expanding bullet.

to learn much more.
Don't worry about bullets for either, they are here to stay. the hmr also comes in a 20 grain expanding bullet, and most companies carry several models in 17hmr. only a few left to carry the mach2, but don't worry about it, if you cannot find new, you can find mach 2's used for sale, which will be just fine. But most guys who have shot both will tell you the mach 2 is just, well... you know when you know. most hmr is about 15 bucks per box now, and you can find mach 2 for 4 to 6 bucks per box, over the net , or at gunshows.17 aggies are much harder to find, but I just managed to scrounge 10 bricks from ammotogo.com

 

[Reyn]

The HMR isnt going anywhere. It is a popular rd. The HM2 is not as popular but my favorite. When im not deer hunting i hunt squirrels and the HM2 fits the bill perfectly. I have CZs and will probably sell the HMR. I like the round but i havent hunted with it in 2 years.

 

[hksw]

ive heard the hmr may not be around to much longer, any truth to this.

This is most certainly not the case at this time. In my area, HM2s are rarely seen as compared to the HMRs. If ammo prices for the HMR reach $20 a box, then things may change, but until then, it has been going along fine even with the slight increase in ammo prices.

 

[COYOTE102076]

" a 22 mag has more energy out to 80 yds, after80 yds, the 17hmr takes over in all categories, simply because of it's speed.
Most guys, with good made bbls, are getting 2600 fps from their 17's, and some dudes, with really good custom made bbls, are approaching the 2700 fps mark. This is centerfire speeds."

Mr. Rangerruck, I value your opinions. As you are a senior member here. I trust your knoledge in the firearms market. But I have to think you are wrong here. Why do I think that? Look at the 2 blaistics charts below.
www.gunsandammomag.com-.17HMR
www.gunsandammomag.com-.22WINCHESTER MAGNUM RIMFIRE LOADS

As you can see, the 17gr V-Max at 100 yards has 136 ft. lbs of energy
The Winchester Supreme 34gr JHP has 155 ft lbs of energy at 100 yards.
the Remington 33gr has 164 ft lbs, and a PMC load with a 40gr JHP is listed at 208 ft. lbs! That is allot more than the 136 ft. lbs of the 17HMR!
I seriously doubt that 150 fps through a custom expensive barrel using a 17 grain bullet is going to make up that gap!

Not trying to ruffle your feathers here. I love opinions. ( My opinion is that the 17HMR is a WONDERFUL cartredge!) But I am a truth in all kind of guy. And I bleave, in this matter, the truth is in the balistics tables.

I own, shoot, and love my .22 Magnum. I get 0.75" 100 yard groops on calm days with it! The .22 Mag, in a decent gun (mine is a Heavy barrell Marlin bolt action that we gave $150 ish for used) has less than 1 moa accuracy, and MORE power than the .17HMR ever will. Just a fact. Having this been said, I still want a .17M2. Just because I want one, if for no other reason.

Happy Shooting!

 

[Art Eatman]

I don't think I'd choose either for meat-hunting on small critters, but they're great for small pests.

Justin, with his Mach II, was getting clean kills on prairie dogs at 100 yards, and after he figured out holdover and the wind, out to 200 yards.

Seems to me you could add 50 yards for the HMR.

If you want a sorta-custom rifle (converting from an existing .22 LR or Maggie), check with Bo Clerke at Raton. He's making many .17, .20 and .22 barrels, and holds one ten-thousandth of an inch tolerance. I don't know his prices.

Art

 

[Reyn]

Here is the trajectory. Lot flatter compared to others.



Check this site for a lot of comparisons.

http://www.varmintal.com/17hmr.htm

 

[ArmedBear]

The flat trajectory is only so useful when you run out of energy, though.

And WRT the HM2 being around for a while, I wonder if it might not become an expensive round due to rarity.

Ruger dropped its HM2 guns last year; it seems Marlin dumped them this year. Savage has a couple left in their lineup last I checked.

If the guns were selling, they'd all be making them.

 

[skinewmexico]

I had quit shooting for 20 years, and started again because shoot the 17 HMR was so fun. I will admit, I don't shoot it as anything I eat, except the occasional turkey. And although I have long hated the 22 mag, I am kind of intrigued by the new poly tip bullets that are coming out for them. Almost hits 17 velocities, with a lot heavier bullet.

 

[COYOTE102076]

It is accualy those poly tip bullets that made me go back to the .22 mag. I had owned a 22WMR some years ago. It was terribly innacurate ( 3.5" 50 yard groops ! ) and at the ripe young age of 14, seemed too expensive to shoot much. I could mow the yard and buy 500 rds of 22LR or 100 rds of 22mag ammo. So I talked the old man into trading it off for a Lakefield Mod 64semi auto 22LR. I had visions of high $ ammo & pee-poor accureacy untill the day I bought my heavy barrel Marlin & 3 boxes of Remington's new poly tipped ammo. very first 5 shot group at 25 yards made 1 hole! first group at 100 yards was just over 1.5", and as stated earlyer, I have gotten several sub 1" groups since then! The 22WMR aint what it used to be! And thank God it's not!

 

[rangerruck]

coyote; I hate to say you are wrong, but you are. the fastest 22 mag bullet travels at about 2100 fps, that I know of, the fastest clocked 17hmr, is almost 2700 fps now, through some top notch bbls. the b.c. of a 22 mag is about .107-.110
whereas, the 17 hmr is about .125. Because of this , a 17 hmr at 100 yds, is still going over 2000fps at 100 yds, whereas a 22mag has lost nearly HALF OF IT'S SPEED AT 100 YDS!!!! Your chart is also from 2005 , and is not that accurate.
A dude I kinda know, a friend of a friend, is a sherrif out in columbia or w. columbus , texas. Part of his job is to cull varmint animals. he does this with a 17 hmr primarily. He told me about 6 months ago, he had allready killed over 30 coyotes, all were one shot kills, and his longest shot was 160 yds.
chekc this chart, for trajectory, even though it is not energy, look at the trajectory diff, between the two at say , 200 yds. there is about an 11 inch diff in drop, this should give you a pretty good idea of the energy diff. it goes from 1.5 in at 125, to 3 in at 150 to 6 in at 175, to 11 in at 200yds, so trajectory is dropping off fast.
http://www.varmintal.com/17n22.png
here is another experpted article; remember , the speed of the 17hmr is still a little slow;
"This chart includes the 22 Mag 33 gr V-Max with a 2000 fps muzzle velocity.
Velocity is an important factor in calculating kinetic energy, but so is bullet weight. We have already seen that the .17 HMR is by far the faster cartridge, but the .22 WMR shoots a far heavier bullet. Energy is important because it powers bullet expansion and penetration, and is a major factor in killing power.

Here is the energy of our comparison loads, in foot-pounds at the muzzle, 50 yards, 100 yards, 150 yards (when available), and 200 yards (when available):

* .17 HMR, 17 grain V-Max = ME 245 ft. lbs., 185 ft. lbs. at 50 yards, 136 ft. lbs. at 100 yards, 99 ft. lbs. at 150 yards, 72 ft. lbs. at 200 yards.
* .17 HMR, 20 grain XTP = ME 250 ft. lbs., 187 ft. lbs. at 50 yards, 137 ft. lbs. at 100 yards, 99 ft. lbs. at 150 yards, 72 ft. lbs. at 200 yards.
* .22 WMR, 30 grain TNT = ME 325 ft. lbs., 200 ft. lbs. at 50 yards, 120 ft. lbs. at 100 yards, 80 ft. lbs. at 150 yards.
* .22 WMR, 40 grain JHP = ME 324 ft. lbs., 230 ft. lbs. at 50 yards, 162 ft. lbs. at 100 yards.

Here we see a different story. The .22 WMR starts with about a 75 ft. lb. advantage in kinetic energy at the muzzle. At 50 yards the 40 grain .22 bullet is carrying about 45 more ft. lbs., and at 100 yards the 40 grain .22 bullet still has a 25 ft. lb. advantage over the .17 bullets. At 150 yards the .17 HMR has an energy advantage of about 20 ft. lbs. over the 30 grain .22 bullet, and we have no figures for the 40 grain bullet beyond 100 yards."