I want an AK style rifle

[whm1974]

I caught gun fever again and one the guns I want is an AK of some sort. However for the time being it would be a safe queen since I don't have a place to shoot rifles. Which is one of the reasons I havn't got one yet.

I see I can get one in 5.45x39 caliber. How common is this round? Wouldn't 223 be better since you can get it anywhere?

I just want a simple basic rifle for plinking and maybe for SHTF if it happends.

-Bill

 

[Jack19]

Buy the best, you won't be sorry.

http://www.arsenalinc.com/index.htm

http://www.smallarmsreview.com/pdf/sam7.pdf

 

[whm1974]

So how much do Arsenals go for? A friend who I my brought my XD-9 from claimed that AKs(unless made by Krebs) were junk they use low quality steel... Of cousre this guy makes more money then I do and has a $2000 AR-15...

This guy also reconmends a GLOCK for a first gun for those that havn't grew up or never been arounds guns before. So we know how full of crap he is.

Back on the subject, Which AKs are the best ones to get for the price?

-Bill

 

[Crosshair]

Saiga rifles are the best bang for the buck. But you have to convert them to pistol grip you're self.

 

[whm1974]

I'll rule out the Saiga. I want a pistol grip and able to use standered magazines. Now if I hunted or lived in an area where an AK isn't legal, then maybe.

Are the SAR rifles any good? I have heard that sometimes they need a little work.

-Bill

 

[Pilot]

I see I can get one in 5.45x39 caliber. How common is this round? Wouldn't 223 be better since you can get it anywhere?

I just want a simple basic rifle for plinking and maybe for SHTF if it happends.

Aim Surplus has AK's in .223 now. THey are the Romanian SAR's. Get one, they are a good value and Aim stands behind everything.

I have two AK-74's in 5.45 and love them, but .223 is easier to find than 5.45 in a pinch.

 

[MartinS]

My SAR 1 and my kid's SAR 2 are great rifles. Both needed trigger slap fixes, both are flat out reliable. If I was buying one today and I couldn't find any SAR's I would check out the WASR, in a shop if possible for a hands on look.

 

[whm1974]

Thanks. I'll look into buying one once I find a place to shoot rifles. What kind of reaction would I get when I start shooting an AK at the range?

-Bill

 

[busterbrown]

everybodys gottem- youll fit right in

 

[pmbiker]

A friend who I my brought my XD-9 from claimed that AKs(unless made by Krebs) were junk they use low quality steel...

Your rich friend is sadly uneducated in things ak. Krebs are awesome and one of the best, but pricey. Actually the romanian guns (sar, wasr) use correct and high quailty steel, just the fit and finish can be spotty at best and you should hand pick if possible. Kit builds can be hit or miss, depending on the builder and which reciever he uses. Many of the bigger builders (vector, red jacket, ORF, etc) offer a warranty which you may or may not need.

Arsenal guns are primarily milled from billet recievers and in my opinion there is none better. Veprs are a close second using RPK spec thicker steel on the reciever and heavier barrels. If you don't mind the non traditional look they are a good choice. Saigas are very good rifles but they do need some work for the correct look. Nothing a decent dremmelsmith can't handle.

Bottom line is this, if you have $600-1200 to spend and don't mind the weight buy an arsenal. $500-600 for a vepr and still heavy with a front end weight bias. $400-550 for the average kit build but check out the builder. $300-400 for a Romanian wasr or sar but hand pick and be ready to install a new FCG in case of trigger slap. Don't ignore the Norinco or Maadi lines as they can be very good rifles.

If this was my first ak I'd get a decent romanian, they're ugly but a good place to start. If you have lots of $$ in your gun fund look at krebs or ak-usa, best there is and you'll not be dissapointed. Also for a first/only ak I'd stick with the original caliber, 7.62x39. Mags and ammo are cheap and plentiful.

A lightly customized arsenal is my choice.

 

[TrafficMan]

if i could have an ak (i'm in california ) i would get an arsenal

 

[Father Knows Best]

I have an Arsenal SA M-7S (the "S" denotes that it came with a receiver-mounted optics rail), and I love it. I paid $395 for it at a local shop. It wasn't new, but you'd never know it from looking at it. It looks like it had maybe one box of ammo through it before I bought it.

The SA M-7 series rifles are built on milled receivers, which are indeed heavy. Arsenal also makes a line of stamped receiver models, though. I think the model number is SLR-105 or something like that. I've never handled one of those, so I can't comment on how it compares to the SA M-7, but Arsenal sure seems to pay a lot of attention to fit and finish.

The trigger on my SA M-7 is among the best I've ever felt on a military style rifle. It is smooth and very light.

I also like the Vepr rifles, which are a little less money. Try them both and pick what you like and can afford.

 

[whm1974]

everybodys gottem- youll fit right in

Considing that these things can be had for for less then $400, and the fact ammo is cheap I'm supprise more gun owners don't own one.

I know a handful of people at who own one, but some of the other gun owning people there have gave me crap about wanting an AK. They claim that they are junk and can't hit anything, and you can't hunt with it....

Your rich friend is sadly uneducated in things ak.

Also in other things as well. He saw no use for a .22 handgun. Or a revolver. Thought that first timers needing a gun for HD should just get a glock...

-Bill

 

[clange]

Aim Surplus has AK's in .223 now. THey are the Romanian SAR's. Get one, they are a good value and Aim stands behind everything.

I have two AK-74's in 5.45 and love them, but .223 is easier to find than 5.45 in a pinch.

They arent SARs. SARs will never be imported again. AIM has WASRs. I've heard of some problems with the WASR-3s (the .223 version) but AIM should work with you if you have any problems. The WASR-2 is the 5.45 version, and the WASR-10 is the 7.62x39 version.

If you want an AK in 5.56, the WASR-3 is as cheap as you can go. It should work well with these mags from interordnance.

When it comes to AKs, when you pay more you get better fit and finish, harder to find options, and maybe slightly better accuracy, but not reliability. All of them should be reliable.

 

[whm1974]

When it comes to AKs, when you pay more you get better fit and finish, harder to find options, and maybe slightly better accuracy, but not reliability. All of them should be reliable.

I'll keep this in mind. When get one, and want to buy spare mags anythin I should look for? It's my understand that mags don't always work every rifle.

-Bill

 

[clange]

For 7.62 and 5.45, any military magazine will work. They are boringly reliable. The US made mags? Maybe, maybe not, probably not.

As far as 5.56/.223, there are different standards. Generally, weigers work with SARs/WASRs, chinese mags with chinese rifles, bulgarian mags with arsenal stuff, etc. There can be some compatability between the SARs and bulgarian stuff, but its not 100%. The chinese .223 rifles are kind of their own deal I think.

 

[Crosshair]

If an AK mag will not work or lock, a little work with a file or pliers will make it work.

 

[c_yeager]

As far as magazines are concerned you should be OK with just about any military surplus magazine on the market. Essentially, if the magazine is imported from a nation that issues or issued an AK-47 varient you are pretty safe. My experience with AK magazines is that even the ugliest and rattiest looking tend to work like a charm, so if you can get a bunch of finish worn cheapies you can save some money (of course, even brand spanking new mags arent particularly expensive).

 

[whm1974]

I will stick with surplus military magazines then. I'm leaning towards the 7.62x39 caliber although I might get the 223.

-Bill

 

[Pilot]

As someone else said, if you go .223 get the Weiger mags fron Interordinance.

 

[MartinS]

"they're ugly,,," Thanks a lot pmbiker. My Romanian sweetie is right next to me, now she will be sulking for weeks. No use testing out that new batch of Barnaul HP, she'll throw a flyer out of every 4 rounds.

 

[whm1974]

Anything to look for when I buy ammo? I've heard that most surplus use steel jackets and lots of ranges don't like it.

I would hate to get case of ammo and can't use it.

-Bill

 

[petrel800]

Wolf should run like a charm through any AK. Buy a case and have a blast.

As for the rifle itself, own a SAR1, it runs like a charm. Just took delivery of WASR 2.

 

[whm1974]

I may get one anyway despite not having a place to shoot rifles yet.

-Bill

 

[benEzra]

Thanks. I'll look into buying one once I find a place to shoot rifles. What kind of reaction would I get when I start shooting an AK at the range?

(snip)

Considing that these things can be had for for less then $400, and the fact ammo is cheap I'm supprise more gun owners don't own one.

I know a handful of people at who own one, but some of the other gun owning people there have gave me crap about wanting an AK. They claim that they are junk and can't hit anything, and you can't hunt with it....

They're just being snobs.

I own a SAR-1, and the last time I went to the range I was the only person there shooting at the 200-yard line. No, it's not a tack driver (the best I've ever gotten is 2.5 MOA, and 5 is more typical once it gets warm), but "you can't hit anything with it" is bogus. Sure you can. 3 MOA is good enough to hit a soda can at 100 yards. And plenty of .30-30 lever-actions aren't any more accurate than that.

The most common reaction I've gotten at the range is "Cool!" And I've never had a negative reaction of any sort.

And yes, you CAN hunt with them, if you live in a state that allows hunting with self-loading rifles (slap in a 5-round hunting magazine, and maybe a low-powered scope or red dot, and you're good to go), you're not hunting anything bigger than medium-sized deer, and you won't be taking any shots beyond 100 yards or so. A civilian AK lookalike in 7.62x39mm is basically an autoloading .30-30, and plenty of people hunt with those.



As far as people dissing AK lookalikes--here's some things AK lookalikes have going for them, IMO:


Low recoil/fun to shoot.

Aesthetics. I'm a Gen-X'er, and I think "AK's" are way better looking than more traditional-looking rifles.

Versatility. One gun that can be used for light hunting, target shooting/plinking out to 200 yards or so, and defensive purposes. Neat.

Reliability. Civvie AK's share the same rotating bolt assembly and long-stroke gas piston design as real AK's, making them among the most reliable of all rifles. They are amazingly tolerant of crud in the action.

History. The AK-47 is an icon of 20th century history, for better or for worse. Since my wife and I have a very small collection of Russian-style firearms dating back to 1905 (the oldest bears the imperial crest of Nikolai Alexandrovich Romanov, even), my AK lookalike fills a niche in that collection, even if it's not a real AK-47.

Economy. Very few other autoloading rifles this good can be had for $379, and ammunition is the cheapest of all centerfire rifle calibers ($1.75/20 rounds).

It's a freedom thing. Bill Bennett and Dianne Feinstein can splutter about it all they want, but that "AK" and SKS sitting in our gun safe are tangible reminders that my wife and I are free people. We don't own them at the dispensation of some elite individual; we own them because, as law-abiding Americans, we have the right to choose to.

My advice to someone who doesn't like them would be, "so don't buy one."