Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

I want to order a CDNN Hi-Power, but I live in CA

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by natedog, Mar 18, 2005.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. natedog

    natedog Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    2,634
    Location:
    Bakersfield, California
    I want to order one of CDNN Investments FN 9mm Hi-Powers, but I unfortuanetly live in CA, and CDNN won't ship to CA. So, I thought I'd have my grandpa in Texas order it, take possession, and then when he comes out to visit, transfer it to us. What would we have to do to insure that this process is legal? Geting the CA handgun safety permit would be a first, right? Is there anyway to transfer the gun between family members without going through a dealer? Thanks.
     
  2. DMF

    DMF Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2004
    Messages:
    2,247
    Location:
    Nomad
    According to the FAQs on the ATF website, if he is a resident of TX and you are a resident of California, and it is a handgun, the answer is NO.

    http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b1
     
  3. Majic

    Majic Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2003
    Messages:
    5,370
    Location:
    Virginia
    Gramps should make the pistol a gift to you as what you are asking is called a straw purchase. As to the legalities of a transfer then one of the Kali members will have to help you, if it's even possible to import the pistol in your state.
     
  4. natedog

    natedog Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    2,634
    Location:
    Bakersfield, California
    Gramps purchasing the gun with his funds, then turning around and reselling it to us wouldn't be a straw purchase, right? I thought a straw purchase was buying a gun for someone who isn't legally eligible to do so by them giving you the money, you turn around, buy the gun, and give it to them.
     
  5. 50 Freak

    50 Freak Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2003
    Messages:
    952
    First of all lets get something straight. A "straw" purchase is when a person buys a gun for someone else and gives/sells it to him to avoid the second person having to register it.

    If the first person is buying a gun and then either gifting/selling the gun to the second person THROUGH AN FFL. Then it is not a "straw" purchase.

    So your Gramps can buy the gun for you and then when he moves into Cali, then he can sell or give the the gun through the use of a FFL. Now if he is just visiting Cali and trys to give/sell the gun to you then it's a no no. Unless the gun is either a C&R or on the approved Handgun list.
     
  6. wasrjoe

    wasrjoe Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2004
    Messages:
    1,242
    Location:
    Arizona
    We don't register our guns in Arizona.

    Technically incorrect. Across state borders an FFL has to be involved, but one does not have to go through an FFL to give a firearm in many states, mine included.
     
  7. natedog

    natedog Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    2,634
    Location:
    Bakersfield, California
    It's on the approved list- could we just process this like an out of state transfer, as if I was buying it via Gunsamerica or Gunbroker? IE I send cash, he ships gun to my dealer, it sits there for 10 days, then I pick it up.
     
  8. 50 Freak

    50 Freak Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2003
    Messages:
    952
    This guy's question was about a gun purchase in California. What I said is correct. It may not hold true in other states but in Cali, I'm pretty darn sure about what I'm saying.
     
  9. thatguy

    thatguy Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    Messages:
    1,166
    If the gun is approved for sale in CA just find one for sale and buy it. Do you HAVE to buy it from CDNN? The 10 round mag limit will still apply, though.

    CA law bars importing unapproved guns for the purpose of selling. CA laws make allowances for gifts to and from parents and children but I don't know if grandparents are included.
     
  10. natedog

    natedog Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    2,634
    Location:
    Bakersfield, California
    I'd prefer to buy it from them; their cost is $400 for a NIB FN MKIII Hi-Power...the next cheapest price I've found is closer to $550 - $600.
     
  11. Gunsnrovers

    Gunsnrovers Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    1,477
    Location:
    Lost Angeles
    Your grandfather could buy it from CDNN and ship it to you via a FFL.

    Of course, there will be FFL fees for him to receive the pistol from CDNN, shipping fees from him to you, and FFL fees and DROS on your end. But I'm pretty sure you could still wind up paying about $500 doing it that way.

    .50 Freak, I'm almost 100% certain his grandfather could come to California with the pistol in person, he could give it to him (no 13 round magazines!) and he would have a short grace period to file and register the pistol. Of course the roundtrip airfare would most likely kill any savings.

    Per the DOJ webpage, you have to submit an "Report of Operation of Law or Intra-Familial Handgun Transaction" and $19 fee to the DOJ within 30 days. The DOJ web page specifically mentions parent to child and husband/wife transfers, but I am pretty certain grandparent to grandchild (is that a word?) also qualifies. This is not necessary for long guns (voluntary registration only).

    Though, from recent posts on the 1911Forum (before it closed for maintaince), it sounded like CDNN was out of 9mm's and this may be a moot point....

    I haven't seen a NIB HP for under $689 here in Los Angeles. There is a shop with a slightly used on in Long Beach for $598, but he is only open on Saturdays so I haven't been able to run down there.

    I haven't seen the FN marked pistols in almost a year.
     
  12. SRYnidan

    SRYnidan Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2003
    Messages:
    250
    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV
    50 Freak

    I am not a resident of CA (thank God) but I have been a FFL holder in my own right as well as worked for both retail and wholesale gun brokers. The "Staw" is a federal violation and has nothing to do with state gun redgistration. The are probably a lot of problems with this from CA's point of view but not this.
     
  13. Kruzr

    Kruzr Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2002
    Messages:
    1,041
    Location:
    Surf City, PRK
    Kali DOJ allows the gift of a handgun from grandfather to grandson or father to son without going through an FFL provided it is a physical transfer....face to face. The grandson or son then has to file the Operation of Law form and send in the 19 bucks to register the gun. There will be no violation of California law if done this way.
    Federal Law is a different story. You won't find an exception for a gift in Federal Law, only a bequeath. I asked this question of the ATF agents at the SHOT show in January. They said that if Calif. did not have a problem, then they don't but I've never seen it in writing anywhere and the Federal Law indicates the opposite.
    That having been said, I know of a number of inter family transfers that have taken place in Calif. from out of state fathers who bring a gun when they visit to transfer. You may want to check with the ATF directly and see if you can get an answer you can be comfortable with.

    From Calif DOJ website, FAQ:
    5. Can I give a firearm to my adult child? Can he/she give it back to me later?
    Yes, as long as the adult child receiving the firearm is not in a prohibited category and the firearm is a legal firearm to possess, the transfer of a firearm between a parent and child or a grandparent and grandchild is exempt from the dealer transfer requirement. However, if the firearm is a handgun, you must submit an Report of Operation of Law or Intra-Familial Handgun Transaction and $19 fee to the DOJ within 30 days. Assault weapons may not be transferred in this fashion. See Penal Code section 12285, subdivision (b).

    (PC section 12076(c))




    And yes, you still need a Handgun Safety Certificate to take possession from a parent or grandparent.
     
  14. slzy

    slzy Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2005
    Messages:
    872
    When are the people of California going to reclaim there rights?
     
  15. El Rojo

    El Rojo Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2002
    Messages:
    2,541
    Location:
    The People's Republik of **********
    When you learn how to spell their. Sorry, but you asked. :neener:

    That makes sense to have grandpa buy it from CDNN and then have him ship it to your FFL and do the paperwork that way. However, you are adding on some serious costs. Now another good idea might be this gift idea. Have him pick it up and hold onto it until he comes back this way. Sure you won't have it for a while, but eventually you will get it. It also gives grandpa a reason to come out and visit.

    Also, Nate aren't you under 21? Technically nothing can be in your name until you hit that mythical age where you are a more responsible adult. Only my Glock is in my name just for that very reason. I wanted handguns when I was 18-20.99 and my dad bought them for me. I never bothered filling out any paperwork though and I just retain them now. Heck they are even on my CCW permit and they aren't even in my name. Oh well. Probably illegal, but sometimes you gotta say, "Who cares!"

    The real issue here is gun stores writing us off just because we are from the PRK. Doesn't that suck? I see their point of view, but darn it, if it is legal for us to have, why not just send it to us and take our money? How hard is it to look at the list and see it is ok? Again, they are a private business and they can do what they want, but it sure is frustrating.
     
  16. SIOP

    SIOP Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2005
    Messages:
    464
    Nope. Then they both go to prison. It is a violation of the gun control act to transfer a handgun to a person that is not a resident of your state. FFL's can't even do it.

    Dan
     
  17. Bear Gulch

    Bear Gulch Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2005
    Messages:
    1,235
    Location:
    Idaho
    Move from Kali!
     
  18. natedog

    natedog Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    2,634
    Location:
    Bakersfield, California
    That's the plan. Just trying to get by on what we're allowed here till then.
     
  19. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    24,041
    Location:
    Idahohoho, the jolliest state
    Shortly after the 37th of July.

    Realistically speaking: it's not going to happen. The socialists and illegal aliens are in charge. They're both looter groups. They're both intent on squeezing as much out of the productive people as possible.

    Atlas shrugged.
     
  20. 50 Freak

    50 Freak Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2003
    Messages:
    952
    I know your wrong on this. How is it then that people from Cali can buy guns from private individuals off of gunbroker and then have it mailed to their local FFL.

    If the Gramps just gives him the gun without any registration of any type, then your arguement would have some merit.

    In the state of California, all handgun transfers must be registered. Now if Gramps comes into Cali and they both go down to the local FFL and do the transfer. As long as the gun is on the approved list. Then it's all legit. Or if Gramps does give him the gun he then would have to file an Operation of Law form and send in the 19 bucks to register the gun. Then again it would be legal.

    As for "transfer to a person that is not a resident" being illegal. That is incorrect. I have bought many guns this way and all have been registered via my FFL.
     
  21. SIOP

    SIOP Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2005
    Messages:
    464
    You just answered your own question. The firearm was first transferred to an FFL.

    Ditto. Deal went through an FFL.

    Nope. Jail for both of them. Gramps is a resident of another state, other guy knows it. Violation of the gun control act.

    If you got a handgun from anyone not a resident of your state you both broke the law.

    I would recommend that you visit the ATF web site and brush up on firearms laws before you end up in the slammer.
     
  22. El Rojo

    El Rojo Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2002
    Messages:
    2,541
    Location:
    The People's Republik of **********
    SIOP, your statements would be considered with greater weight if you could post a link or something that isn't just your paraphrase. So far we have PRK penal code that says the interfamily transfer is ok. It would be nice to have a link to federal law that says interfamily transfer is not ok if from out of state.
     
  23. SIOP

    SIOP Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2005
    Messages:
    464
    Title 18 USC, Chapter 44, section 922(a)(3) and 922(a)(5).

    What section of California firearms law do you claim permits it?

    Dan
     
  24. Gunsnrovers

    Gunsnrovers Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    1,477
    Location:
    Lost Angeles
    As per the California DOJ web page, PC sections 12071, 12076(c), 12076(f), & 12078(i) are all pertinent.

    Last paragraph outlines the part that I was under the impression makes this legal.

    ---------------

    Sales, Loans, or Transfers of Firearms
    It is unlawful for a person who is not a licensed firearms dealer pursuant to Penal Code section 12071, to sell, loan, or otherwise transfer a firearm to a non-licensed person unless the sale, loan, or transfer is completed through a licensed firearms dealer or law enforcement agency. (Penal Code §§ 12071, 12072, 12082, 12084.)


    Exceptions

    1) The dealer licensing and reporting requirements do not apply to the sale, lease, or transfer of any firearm in the following instances (Penal Code § 12078(u)):

    • Firearms obtained by individuals through operation of law, such as:
    - the executor or administrator of an estate;

    - a trustee in a bankruptcy proceeding;
    - an assignee for creditors;
    - a receiver for an estate in receivership;
    - a surviving spouse;
    - a transfer of property between spouses.

    NOTE: Concealable firearms obtained by any of the preceding means must be reported to the Department of Justice on forms provided by the Department of Justice. (Penal Code § 12078(i)(1).)

    - a levying officer as defined in sections 481.140, 511.060, or 680.260 of the Code of Civil Procedure;
    - firearms received by the family of a police officer or deputy sheriff from a local agency pursuant to section 50081 of the Government Code;
    - the transfer of a firearm by a law enforcement agency to the person who found the firearm where the delivery is to the finder pursuant to Article 1 (commencing with section 2080) of Chapter 4 of Division 3 of the Civil Code;

    • Firearms obtained through intestate succession or by bequest, sales or transfers between "immediate family" members. Immediate family means parent and child, and grandparent and grandchild. (NOTE: Individuals who receive a concealable firearm in this manner must obtain a Basic Firearms Safety Certificate for handguns received prior to January 1, 2003. A Handgun Safety Certificate is required for handguns received on and after January 1, 2003. The acquisition of a handgun in this manner must be reported within 30 days to the Department of Justice on forms provided by the Department of Justice.) (Penal Code §§ 12078(i)(1)(B), 12078(c)(2)(A).)
     
  25. Librarian

    Librarian Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2003
    Messages:
    1,470
    Location:
    Concord, CA
    Looks to me (IANAL) that SIOP has it right, due to 18 USC 922 (a)(5)
    California doesn't say, apparently leaving the interstate stuff to the Feds.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page