I was refused a gun

[VA27]

Only reside there part time, to fulfill Federal requirements.

27 CFR 478.11:
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/tex...iv8&view=text&node=27:3.0.1.2.3.2.1.1&idno=27

Example 2:

There are exceptions to this one. Now days, some states have the requirement that you must be a resident for as long as 6 months to establish residency. In some states, after you enter the state with the intent to establish residency, you have a time limit (depending on the state, as little as 10 days) during which you must obtain a driver's license and vehicle registration in that state. Even if you own property in more than one state, you can only be a resident of one state at a time. That's why you can't get a driver's license in a new state without turning in your previous license.

Back in the day, I had licenses from three states, all current and valid. Those days are over.

I wouldn't like to be in the guy's shoes who has a DL in one state and an ID in another when someone figures that out.

 

[animator]

Last few guns I've bought, I haven't showed my TX DL...




But HAVE showed my TX CHL.

 

[Twiki357]

I don't see why there should be a problem having a DL in one state and an ID card in another. I had this for a while when I lived in California (On week ends and legal residence), but spent most of the three years before retirement working in Arizona. I got sick of the hassle of the out of state ID and got an Arizona ID card until I retired and moved to Arizona permently.

 

[Jon Coppenbarger]

simple solution is you go get your own ffl

 

[NavyLCDR]

There are exceptions to this one. Now days, some states have the requirement that you must be a resident for as long as 6 months to establish residency. In some states, after you enter the state with the intent to establish residency, you have a time limit (depending on the state, as little as 10 days) during which you must obtain a driver's license and vehicle registration in that state. Even if you own property in more than one state, you can only be a resident of one state at a time. That's why you can't get a driver's license in a new state without turning in your previous license.

Back in the day, I had licenses from three states, all current and valid. Those days are over.

I wouldn't like to be in the guy's shoes who has a DL in one state and an ID in another when someone figures that out.

None of that matters in regards to purchasing a firearm from an FFL, or private party sales of firearms unless state laws specifically apply their own residency requirements to firearms sales.

For example, Bob moves in next door to me with a U-Haul truck and moving his furniture into the house. That same day I can sell Bob a gun because he is present in my state with the intention of making a home there, even though Bob has an out-of-state driver's license.

Only 2 or 3 states apply their own residency requirements to firearms purchases, the rest simply use the Federal law.

 

[EddieNFL]

So in Texas do you have to have a drivers license to buy a gun? I do not think that is right.

Purchasing a firearm is a serious matter, not something so trivial as, say voting.

 

[ball3006]

You can buy a gun from someone, face to face, in Texas without any ID, unless the seller requests it. Any FFL will require a government issue ID to sell a gun. If you don't like it, move someplace else.....chris3

 

[Sav .250]

It must be cause they wouldn`t sell you one.

 

[mcdonl]

simple solution is you go get your own ffl

I have a sneaky feeling that would require a picture ID too

Just saying....

 

[3KillerBs]

I don't drive. All states offer non-driver ID cards for a nominal fee.

 

[EvilGenius]

So in Texas do you have to have a drivers license to buy a gun? I do not think that is right.

Regardless of whether the state requires a DL when purchasing a firearm or not, the seller is not obligated in any way to sell it to you. It can be a personal or company policy not to accept anything other than a DL and if you can't provide one then they won't sell to you. They could choose not to sell to you even if you did have one.

 

[mgkdrgn]

Not having a drivers license is new to me. Just lost it to a dwi recently.

Is the punishment in your State for a DWI -possibly- more than a year in jail? (not what YOU got, what the law says you COULD get).

If so, you are going to have a problem with question 11c on the 4473:
"Have you ever been convicted in any court of a felony, or any other crime,, for which the judge could imprision you for more than one year?

If you have to answer YES to that question, not having a drivers license is the least of your worries.

 

[buck460XVR]

The Amish buy firearms all the time and obviously thay do not have drivers license and very few have photo ID. We even have Amish owned sporting goods stores that are FFL registered. You might be somewhat surprised how many Amish own handguns.

Watched an Amish buy a shottie the other day, I believe he was goin' Turkey hunting. He pulled out a state issued ID card. Our DMV issues them for free.

 

[R.W.Dale]

Wouldn't bother me in the least if DWI were a disqualifying offense. If you're willing to drive drunk, you probably aren't responsible enough to own a gun.

I agree. But the funny thing is even though a dui may prohibit you from purchasing a firearm you can still go buy and own an automobile :banghead:

Not having a drivers license is new to me. Just lost it to a dwi recently.

Watch out. You may now be prohibited if your state can sentence a person for a year on dui charges.


posted via mobile device.

 

[Yoda]

But...

Aren't these the same Feds who insist that Texas NOT require folks to show an ID to vote? I'm confused.

Actually, I'm not.

- - - Yoda

 

[bushmaster1313]

Where does the statute say you need a "photo" ID?

I think this is it:

the transferor has verified the
identity of the transferee by examining a valid identification document
(as defined in section 1028(d) of this
title) of the transferee containing a
photograph of the transferee.

 

[NavyLCDR]

where does the statute say you need a "photo" id?

27 CFR 478.11 definition of Identification Document and 27 CFR 478.124 subparagraph (c)(3)(i). Only applies to firearms purchased from FFLs, though. Not a requirement (in most states) for private firearms transactions between residents of the same state.

 

[beatledog7]

You cannot be refused a gun because you're not a licensed driver. Every state issues an ID which is formatted like a DL but indicates the holder is a non driver.

 

[MachIVshooter]

Watch out. You may now be prohibited if your state can sentence a person for a year on dui charges.

Actually, one year is the cut-off. Over one year is prohibited.

 

[shotgunjoel]

You might be somewhat surprised how many Amish own handguns.

So what kinds of handguns to the Amish buy? Do they go crazy like everyone else over Glocks, or are they more walnut and steel S&W and 1911 people? I'd guess the later, but you never know.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Actually, one year is the cut-off. Over one year is prohibited.

According to 27 CFR 478.11, if the state crime was a misdemeanor, the prohibition is actually if the possible sentence was greater than 2 years:

Crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding 1 year. Any Federal, State or foreign offense for which the maximum penalty, whether or not imposed, is capital punishment or imprisonment in excess of 1 year. The term shall not include (a) any Federal or State offenses pertaining to antitrust violations, unfair trade practices, restraints of trade, or other similar offenses relating to the regulation of business practices or (b) any State offense classified by the laws of the State as a misdemeanor and punishable by a term of imprisonment of 2 years or less.

 

[Grmlin]

State of residence. The State in which an individual resides. An individual resides in a State if he or she is present in a State with the intention of making a home in that State. If an individual is on active duty as a member of the Armed Forces, the individual's State of residence is the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located.

Thats incorrect while in the Military on active duty, your state of residence is were you resided before entering the service, unless you change it. You have the same privileges as a resident because of your active duty status but do not pay that states taxes and depending on your home state your drivers license will remain valid untill 60 days past your EAS.

 

[dogtown tom]

Grmlin

Quote:
State of residence. The State in which an individual resides. An individual resides in a State if he or she is present in a State with the intention of making a home in that State. If an individual is on active duty as a member of the Armed Forces, the individual's State of residence is the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located.

Thats incorrect while in the Military on active duty, your state of residence is were you resided before entering the service, unless you change it. You have the same privileges as a resident because of your active duty status but do not pay that states taxes and depending on your home state your drivers license will remain valid untill 60 days past your EAS.

No sir.
That quote is directly from the Form 4473 pg 5 Question 16.

"State of residence" for the purposes of acquiring a firearm is different than what a state may require for voting, obtaining a drivers license, taxes, etc.

 

[Grmlin]

Well that may be what it says but I'm giving first hand knowledge after 20 years in the military, my actual residency was my home state.

While on active duty you have all the privileges of a state resident even if your not, your military I.D. and orders give you those privileges. I had a state I.D for most states I lived in but was still a legal resident of my home state, used my original drivers license even after it had long expired, I still payed taxes and voted in my home state.

I also had two conceal carry permits for the state I lived and my home state.

 

[blarby]

FWIW :

In texas, it would need to be his third DUI :

Texas DWI Penalties
Classifications and Range of Punishment for DWI Conviction

DWI, 1st Offense: Class B Misdemeanor in Texas
Fine - A fine not to exceed $2,000.
Jail - Confinement in the County Jail for a term of not less the 72 hours nor more that six (6) months. Open Container - If there was an open container of alcohol in your car when arrested, the minimum term of confinement is six (6) days in the county jail.
Community Service - Texas law mandates that a judge order not less than 24 hours nor more than 100 hours.

DWI, Second Offense: Class A Misdemeanor Special Condition for Jail Release on Bond:

It is important to note that if arrested and accused of a DWI Second or greater offense, Texas law now requires the Court to Order as a CONDITION OF RELEASE FROM JAIL ON BOND, that the person install and maintain a deep lung air device on the car that the person intends to drive and operate while charges are pending. The device requires a breath sample before it will allow you to start your car. They also require periodic breaths while driving to monitor and insure sobriety. New technology has made these devices "user sensitive" so that someone else cannot blow into the device for the driver.

Although this provision seems to run afoul of the presumption of innocence, Texas Courts have consistently held that such condition is necessary to protect a legitimate governmental interest in making public roadways safe for the motoring public.
Fine - A fine not to exceed $4,000.00.
Jail - Confinement in the County Jail for a term of not less than 72 hours nor more than one (1) year.

DWI, Third Offense (or greater): Third degree FELONY

Jail - Confinement in the Texas Department of Criminal Justice, Institutional Division (Penitentiary) for a term of not less than 2 years nor more than ten (10) years.

Thus, In texas, it would need to be his third DUI. I think at that point I'd be questioning gun ownership too.......

GET A STATE ID

If the FFL of your choosing does not accept a state issued ID card as proof of residency and legal address ( as is their prerogative, perhaps they ARE screening out recent DUI offenders...you never know, but thats their right as the business owner and FFL holder )...... FIND A NEW FFL.