I wonder how 2A is regarded by illegals

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Illegal immigrants won't have any more regard for the 2A than any other law.
Why should they? We don't even respect our laws. Our politicians absolutly do not respect them.
To be sure, most of the illegals who come here seeking minimum sustainable work so they can escape their Mexican hell probably don't really give a rat's petoot about guns.
But the MS-13 and drug runners, the illegals of that ilk -- they already have their guns in spite of the 2A or any other antigun law, so it's sorta a pointless concern, really.
 
If they break immigration, border and identity theft laws, why would they care about following firearms ownership and use laws?
 
sure they care

Why would they want American citizens to be armed? They might be held up trespassing, stopped in the middle of a robbery, or shot before one of the 12 homicides they commit per day was executed. Oh wait, the guy that did hold them up lost his case (and his farm to the illegals) since it was counterfunded by MEXICO. Nevermind, point your gun, lose a lawsuit.

Have fun! (Vigilantes! Activists! ASSAULT RIFLES!!!!!! No landowners here...)
http://www.libertymatters.org/newsservice/2005/faxback/2873_Ranch.htm
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1743752/posts

and the best
http://www.casperstartribune.net/articles/2005/08/22/news/regional/4e2eb23b48fa757c8725706500061197.txt:banghead:

"Morris Dees Jr., co-founder and chief trial counsel of the Southern Poverty Law Center, which represented the immigrants, said he hoped the ruling would serve as a cautionary tale to landowners or civilian patrols."

PARAPHRASED BY SAM:
Better not try to stop us from crossing your farm, sleeping in your barn, harassing animals, sneaking in the night, trashing your fields, or else we get your house AND land (and barn, and field)!
***?!
:fire: :fire:
st
 
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I'm hearing stories from down closer to the border that at least SOME of the cross-border smugglers are making efforts not to harass the local ranchers. They realize that if they do, some will "armor up" in response.
 
My concern is that the soon-to-be-amnestied come from a country were they are not ‘allowed’ arms and may see them collectively as threatening for a number of reasons /tools of the bad guys/ tools of the oppressive-crooked government, etc.
Perhaps the average soon-to-be amnestied individual, having no great knowledge or love of firearms, the Constitution in general or 2A specifically, happens to gravitate to the party that has traditionally supported gun control and would be emboldened to foster confiscation. I’ve heard that in the last election the Dem Party benefited numerically from the “Hispanic vote” more than the Rep Party. What I’m not sure of is to what extent does “Hispanic voting” mirror the patterns we might see for the soon-to-be-amnestied?

If the number of soon-to-be-amnestied is closer to 20 million and the program has the unforeseen consequence in causing a wholesale uncontrolled mass exodus here why couldn’t it tip the balance on 2A? I’m not sure repeal of the 2nd amendment is even remotely necessary to end private ownership of firearms. The powers that been have been successfully moving that direction is several states and the higher courts have not interfered.

As some point the numbers game could make the balancing act that protected 2A/privte firearms ownership over the last 2-3 decades impossible i.e. the whipping Dems received a few years back over the gun issue cannot be repeated.
 
What I’m not sure of is to what extent does “Hispanic voting” mirror the patterns we might see for the soon-to-be-amnestied?
Click to expand...

Hispanic does not equal illegal alien. Illegal alien is a mindset of cutting in line, breaking laws because they want to. It's a culture of excused criminality, nothing to do with a racial or ethnic group.

In fact, most people of Hispanic descent I know of HATE illegal immigration, because they still have relatives who have been waiting for years, patiently, to enter legally!

I do not care what the hell someone's ethnic background or skin color is, I don't even see that, really. But I do chafe at conflicting cultures that attack mine rather than assimilating into their new home, and I feel that illegal immigrants ought to be rounded up and sent home, period.

They're lawbreakers. Broke a major law already, don't care. Likely to break other laws, like illegally owning guns? Far more likely, I'd say.
 
In fact, most people of Hispanic descent I know of HATE illegal immigration, because they still have relatives who have been waiting for years, patiently, to enter legally!
Click to expand...

It's completely different here. Remember the half a million people marching through Downtown LA? They werent all illegals. The majority of them werent illegals.

I'd say the majority of Hispanic-Americans are at least sympathize with the plight of illegal aliens..

Why do you think Bush has been so soft on immigration? Bush got a good chunk of the Hispanic vote in the last election. If he had taken a hardline, he might not have gotten those votes.

In theory, this should not be about race/ethnicity .. In should be about law and order. Right and wrong.. but in reality things arent that simple and race/ethnicity is a major factor in this whole debate.
 
I'd say the majority of Hispanic-Americans are at least sympathize with the plight of illegal aliens..
Click to expand...

Right. Most of the Mexicans I know are sympathetic on some level.
 
Why do you think Bush has been so soft on immigration? Bush got a good chunk of the Hispanic vote in the last election. If he had taken a hardline, he might not have gotten those votes.

In theory, this should not be about race/ethnicity .. In should be about law and order. Right and wrong.. but in reality things arent that simple and race/ethnicity is a major factor in this whole debate.
Click to expand...

Sure, race and ethnicity are a major factor. Tribalism rules--with the support of the Left. Blood talks louder than Law or Reason.

Bush isn't popular with Hispanics. That's more smoke from Rove. The GOP will disappear as a viable party if and when "comprehensive immigration reform" is enacted. It appears Bush is okay with that.
 
Who knows and who cares. I am sure most of them regard all US laws as trivial compared to their own survival. One thing is for sure they sure don't support more restrictions on immigration, nor do they vote for Republicans. The more the Republicans push the issue, the more they will loose of the small % of hispanics that currently vote for them. Since Hispanics are the fastest growing group in the US, this will further regulate the Republican party as nothing more than a foonote in history books.
 
It just occured I may have injected a racial element in the thread but that was not intended.

I was just wonder out loud when the media says "Hispanic vote" what they are talking about i.e. is some amount of voting by illegals accounted for in that data point. By the nature of my question me thinks an accurate answer is "It cannot be know".

I hate to drift my own thread but if there is one message in all this hoola it is that at the lighest levels of government and perhaps on a local level as well there are laws that will not be enforced or a best on a small % basis only. The intellectual underpinnings for this non-enforcement are as diverse as haircut styles but the most remarkable element is that gov, on almost all levels, would not enforce the laws they were sworn to uphold and enforce.

Just think of the applications...
Best
S-
 
I'm hearing stories from down closer to the border that at least SOME of the cross-border smugglers are making efforts not to harass the local ranchers. They realize that if they do, some will "armor up" in response.
Click to expand...

I've heard the opposite, that not only are ranchers being harassed, but that some have been murdered and their ranches used as staging areas.

Who knows what the truth is, really.
 
It's completely different here. Remember the half a million people marching through Downtown LA? They werent all illegals. The majority of them werent illegals.

I'd say the majority of Hispanic-Americans are at least sympathize with the plight of illegal aliens..
Click to expand...

Of course, it could also be that all the people of Hispanic ethnicity I know are successful professionals. And they don't support illegal immigration at all. Personality more than ethnicity, I think...these are people who worked hard to succeed on their own.
 
Well I figure if they dont respect our borders they dont respect our other laws. Generalized I know.
Click to expand...

Yep. Because we all know good law abiding gun owners never break any laws. No one here would even dare think of speeding, because you know, you break one law and you're a criminal for life!
 
Breaking speed limits isn't quite on the level of violating a country's sovereign borders. A lot of illegals also do identity theft, stealing Americans' soc #'s "so they can work"...and also screw up their victims' credit reports.
 
Ever heard of Ranch Rescue?

I'll bet that illegals in the free South are afraid to death of citizens with guns.
 
My Turn

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that I'm the only one in the room who's ever BEEN an illegal alien.

Not here. Overseas.

There's a story to this, and I'll tell it if you want, but that isn't the point.

I didn't understand their politics. I was just trying to stay alive. And get home.

I did what I had to do, but beyond the (minor) point of my being illegally resident there, I committed no crimes and was never a burden on the state or its citizens. My entire vector was to convert my situation to one of either 1) being legally permitted to live and work where I was, or 2) returning to the U.S. where living and working were not restricted to me.

I have some grasp of the dynamics of living as an illegal resident in another country and what's involved in surviving under those conditions.

So, with that as a foundation . . .

I have no patience with anyone who feels they have a RIGHT to sneak into this country or who feels that, if he can get away with his crime long enough it becomes an ENTITLEMENT.

My right to keep and bear arms is, in part, directly intended as a defense both of myself and my nation in the context of its being overrun by foreign interlopers.

A slow motion invasion is still an invasion.

If I break into a museum to steal the Hopeless Diamond, and I walk slowly, taking only one step every 15 minutes, eventually (and slowly) pocketing the jewel, and leave at the same speed, the fact that I will have taken hours and hours to accomplish the crime doesn't mitigate the felony. The speed at which one steals a fortune doesn't figure in the interdiction and punishment of the crime, though it might provide some courtroom amusement.

If I'm knowingly breaking the law to enter a country and knowingly breaking the law to finesse a job from under a legal citizen, and knowingly breaking the law by steal whatever I think I need, or even breaking the law by engaging in some form of violence, I'm not going to be thrilled knowing the population is armed and capable of defending itself.

If I'm a criminal, the RKBA is seriously going to cramp my style.

Almost by definition I'm going to want the RKBA compromised or suppressed.

And please, could we stop calling it "immigration" which it clearly is not? Infiltration, incursion, invasion, occupation, illegal residence. All of these are more accurate. Undocumented worker? Unprosecuted felon is more accurate.
 
Seriously, Who cares what illeagals think about any right?

PC at it's finest IMHO
 
Who Cares?

Well, it seems some of our politicians care.

Should they? Absolutely not.

But they seem to bend themselves into pretzels on behalf of law-breaking foreign nationals.
 
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