Idaho bags its first wolf

[SHvar]

"Funny thing is, native wolves WEREN'T eradicated from Idaho by humans.

These introduced wolves did it."

Let me guess, some anti-wolf organization told you that one?

"They should never have been released here in the first place."

They should never have been killed off by people in the first place.

"Idaho HAD indigenous wolves, but they were smaller and less aggressive. These wolves imported from Canada wiped out actual endangered American wolves."


Im all for hunting, but Im all for having our native ecosystems intact, which includes (heres a wolf education for you) the top predator which belongs here in America, the gray wolf.
I cant stand to see this misinformation being spread on internet forums about introduced wolves being bigger, more aggressive, hungrier, and the biggest lie which is that they killed off the native wolves. Thats like saying that the nazis didnt kill the jews in Europe before and during WW2, its like saying that the other jews killed them, give me a break, at least try to make it sound closer to the truth.
Some more wolf education for you..
In North America, Europe, Asia, the canis lupus (gray wolf) are all the same species, aside from canis lupus arctos (arctic wolf, a subspecies of the gray wolf), canis rufus (red wolf), canis lupus baileyi (mexican gray wolf), all gray wolves in North America are the same exact subspecies. The term "Canadian grays" came from the anti wolf demonstrators, and the beef industry when the wolves were first brought back here.

Heck the domesticated dog is less than 2 tenths of a percent different genetically than a gray wolf (these differences are for a wolves more intense behaviors). The physical differences have to do with genetic switches (contained by both) that are activated or not activated by environment, need and behavior.
By all means, hunt them legally, do so with reason, respect their place in our country, they were here long before us, and hopefully long after us.
Gorgeous animals.

 

[ArmedBear]

Im all for hunting, but Im all for having our native ecosystems intact, which includes (heres a wolf education for you) the top predator which belongs here in America, the gray wolf.

Bring back the prey, bring back the predators. Don't just toss a bunch of wolves into a severely disturbed ecosystem and pretend that's "intact". That's ludicrous.

The physical differences have to do with genetic switches (contained by both) that are activated or not activated by environment, need and behavior.

That's right.

There are 37 subspecies, but all can interbreed, as can domestic dogs with wolves, at least physically (i.e. if they don't kill each other). Subspecies are irrelevant, really.

The amazing morphological differences possible within the genome of the species is clearly seen in the variety of breeds of domestic canines.

The European Gray Wolf and the Canadian Gray Wolf can interbreed.

You are speaking purely from emotion.

all gray wolves in North America are the same exact subspecies

Idaho's native wolf population was genetically the same, but SO ARE MY DOGS. Furthermore, all domestic dogs are considered to be the same subspecies. That doesn't mean an aggressive Irish Wolfhound might not kill off all the Pomeranians it can find.

You offer no evidence that the more robust Canadian population didn't wipe out the local wolves. Whether or not they're classified as the same subspecies, distinct populations exist, with morpholgical and behavioral differences -- a point which you make, but seem not to recognize.

I cant stand to see this misinformation being spread on internet forums about introduced wolves being bigger, more aggressive, hungrier, and the biggest lie which is that they killed off the native wolves. Thats like saying that the nazis didnt kill the jews in Europe before and during WW2, its like saying that the other jews killed them, give me a break, at least try to make it sound closer to the truth.

Again, stupid emotionalism. No evidence, no science.

respect their place in our country, they were here long before us, and hopefully long after us.
Gorgeous animals.

Pure aesthetics. That's fine, but no more objectively valid than "I love cockroaches!"

Animal pictures on t-shirts don't make for sound ecosystem management policies.

Bring back the Bison, bring back the wolves. I'd love to see some more serious restoration. Salmon, too, all the way to the Salmon River and Salmon, Idaho.

But importing these wolves makes for an "intact ecosystem" no more than turning loose all the dogs in the local shelter.

These animals are nothing but the virtual pets of people from the other end of the country, who think they are aesthetically pleasing. There's no large-scale plan to restore the ecosystem or its original animal inhabitants.

 

[caribou]

There is absolutly NO evidence, No science in this entire thread.:banghead:



I hunt wolves all winter long, and thats a long 8 months in this Arctic.
Havent been skunked in 24 years. Funny thing is, there LOTS of game still
My personal ,unscientific observations;

The problem of being outta balance where the Wolves are there, is Too many PEOPLE.
Now those people cant stand the competion for game and habitat, bitching and get all emotional about it ~~LOL!!~~
Here, in a borough the size of Illinois, we have less than 10,000 people, of all ages, and therefore the room and the Wolves , who are doing just what Wolves do, and its not a problem.

You guys should just enjoy the fact that the Wolves are there to hunt now, and no longer "Untouchable".

Now go hunt some Wolves!!

 

[ArmedBear]

You guys should just enjoy the fact that the Wolves are there to hunt now, and no longer "Untouchable".

Exactly. That was the only real problem with the wolves lately, IMO. Managing everything EXCEPT the wolves didn't add up.

WRT the overall ecosystem, there are bigger issues. You can't hunt the people, either. There won't be balance until that changes.

Back in the 19th Century in Idaho, bears, wolves, bison, people, elk, deer, sheep, moose, mountain goats, coyotes all lived in harmony by killing each other with reckless abandon.

Bring back the huge herds of bison and prolific grizzlies, and the routine murders and human deaths by wild animal attack, and the ecosystem might be "in balance" again. Short of that, I think we can just try to manage it as best we can.

 

[The_Shootist]

Maybe introduce a few to Texas - help take care of the 'hawg problem.

 

[jeepmor]

I think they waited too long because the environmental groups do have a lot of political pull. I don't agree with it, but that's my take. In the meantime, the population just kept growing. On the bright side, it should allow plenty more hunting opportunities in the future to get the population in check.

I think it's great that the lower 48 has wolves again. However, I do think that they should have nursed the native population back to numbers instead of using Canadian wolves as stated.

Now the native population is likely completely eradicated by the larger wolves. And now gone forever.

jeepmor

 

[coloradokevin]

They're good lookin' animals. Anything that looks like a doggy I tend to feel kinda bad for hunting wise. But I'd still shoot one.

Personally, I can't do wolf or coyotes... I'm too much of a dog person! In fact, as I type this my dog is sitting next to me giving me the 'sad puppy dog eyes'.

To each their own, but I think I'll stick to animals I'm going to turn into food! If it looks like a steer, an elk, a bison, a moose, a deer, or a bird, it is probably consumable

 

[ArmedBear]

On the bright side, it should allow plenty more hunting opportunities in the future to get the population in check.

Like coloradokevin, I have no burning desire to shoot them. "Hunting opportunities" for me would be more about the deer and elk that the wolves killed, not shooting wolves.

 

[IdahoLT1]

So about a month later we reached the century mark. we have 100 of the 220 wolves harvested with 2 zones closed. The end of the season for some zones is the 31st of Dec. Keep 'em coming hunters

http://fishandgame.idaho.gov/cms/hunt/wolf/quota.cfm

 

[ArmedBear]

I think I saw one on the outskirts of Eagle. I only had a quail gun, and I don't think it was legal for me to hunt there...

 

[slabuda]

I think I saw one on the outskirts of Eagle. I only had a quail gun, and I don't think it was legal for me to hunt there...

Well they are in the Danskins, its not that far of a run while chasing the deer as they move down from higher elevations.

Ive said it before, wont be long before they are just north of Mt Home harassing cattle.

 

[dragonriot]

I'm confused... As of July 3rd 2009, Gray Wolves were placed back on the FEDERAL Endangered species list, which means it is illegal to hunt them in all 50 states.... The Judge shouldn't have to make a decision in Idaho, the Fed already made it for him.

On that note... There is science in this thread. It is absolutely true that humans eliminated the wolves in all of their natural range, and that there were less than 500 wolves left in the entire lower 48 as of 1960... Those 500 wolves were limited to Minnesota and the U.P.

There is ZERO physical difference between Canadian gray wolves and American gray wolves, they are the same animal, and all average about 75lbs for males, and 60lbs for females, with their range going from 50-100lbs... Occasionally, you might find the big boy of a pack running about 120lbs, but that's rare unless you're in northern Canada or Alaska.

The wolves that were reintroduced to Idaho, Wisconsin, Michigan and the rest of the Midwest, are all from the original remaining stock in Minnesota and the U.P. They either dispersed across state lines on their own, or they were trapped and relocated by local DNR programs who realize that a small population of wolves not only prevents extinction, but keeps the deer populations from destroying themselves with disease and CWD. If you don't know what CWD is, and why wolves would have anything to do with the spread of it, it's the deer/elk/moose version of Mad Cow Disease, and wolves historically pick out the weakest members of the deer herd, so they are in essence, culling the herd so we have healthier animals to shoot at.

In Wisconsin, the wolves have moved beyond the range that the DNR says they are... They promise that the wolves are not south of highway 10, the midstate line... We've seen them south of Highway 10, the deer are in hiding because of them, but all in all, the wolves are a benefit to the state, and to the country. With a deer population exploding over 2.5 million each year after the harvest in Wisconsin, I welcome a few wolves to cull the herd, and keep the status quo on the deer population. Hunters can't kill enough deer in a season to keep the population from exploding, but the wolves can.

 

[gallo]

These animals look too much like my dog. I wouldn't hunt them for sport, but only in self defense or to protect my live stock. But to each his own.