Identify this gun.....

[nwilliams]

Ok so I was looking at some pictures of the trouble going on in Rio De Janeiro and came upon this one. Obviously the cop on the left has an M16, but what does the cop on the right have? Is he really carrying a Bren Gun or do my eyes play tricks on me!

 

[Ian Sean]

Hard to tell, looks like a Bren, many were converted to 7.62x51....hard to say.

found a pic of both.

303 on top...308 below

 

[Ian Sean]

I think it is a Bren derivative..look at the rear of the receiver comparisons.

 

[TheDisturbed1]

The cop on the left looks like he has a CAR-15 in really short configuration...

+1 for the bren idea on cop #2, the mag looks a little more curved than that 7.62 bren (pictured), but that could simply be the angle.

other than that, im stumped

 

[Jeremy2171]

Ian,
Your lower pic of the two guns is NOT a Bren in .308. The lower gun is a Stoner 63A1 in 5.56 in Bren configuratuion. The Stoner was modualr and could be turned into different configurations depending upon the mission.

The "Bren" gun in the photo is not a Bren but a Danish Madsen that resembles the Bren due to the top mounted magazine but it entirely different inside. That Madsen could be in several different calibers from 7mm to 7.62 to 8mm. Neat to see that old reliable warhorse still in action!

 

[max popenker]

Gentlemen, that's not a Bren by any measure.
That's a damn Madsen!
Now i need this picture in much bigger resolution, PLEASE!

Behold the Madsen LMG, first designed in 1902 (!!!):

 

[nwilliams]

Now i need this picture in much bigger resolution, PLEASE!

If you want to order a print of the image I think you can do so by going to this link:
http://pictopia.com/perl/gal?proces...id=352&ptp_photo_id=ptl:afp:xt-mt-320-1022224

Looks like you can get it in a range of sizes from 10" to 30", kinda pricey though.

The fact that its a Madsen makes it so much more interesting! Its so funny to see one cop carrying such a modern gun while another is carrying an antique! Very cool!

Here's the original article if you want to lots more interesting pics of Brazilian military and police in action.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070503/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/brazil_amnesty_report

 

[Ian Sean]

Jeremy, absolutely correct, I misinterpreted the article I found with the pic....it was about modifying Brens to .308 and in my haste I copied the pic. Good catch.

Sure does look like a Madsen...if you side by side them (open nwilliams pic in a seperate window), scroll down and you can just about put them side by side. Again look toward the rear of the receiver.

Now, the $50,000 dollar question is what in the world are Brazilian cops doing with a Madsen?

 

[Mannix]

Now, the $50,000 dollar question is what in the world are Brazilian cops doing with a Madsen?

Perhaps it's more like the $5000 question, kinda like why our schools are still using textbooks from 1980 .

 

[Coronach]

Dear LORD. And I thought my PD's procurement system was antiquated and backlogged.

What the HECK?

Mike

 

[Leonardo]

Funny, I was just writting to a friend about the use of Madsen by the military police in Rio and found this thread through Google.
Anyway, the military police in Rio use anything from the 7.62 Madsen to the H&K MP5. Weapons like the Medsen were probably apprehended from drug traffickers. After the disarmament statute passed in congress they can no longer used apprehended guns, they all have to be destroyed.

You can find videos of the military police in Rio using the Madsen on YouTube. There's an excerpt of an old documentary showing the weapons used by BOPE (Special Operations Battalion, an elite unit of the Rio de Janeiro Military Police) and drug traffickers.
Some videos may have graphic content.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tg4TyjyX2Ho (Documentary excerpt showing the weaponry)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tgZRPxfVCQ (Shootout in a shanty town, the is Madsen used)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3OwHNrPI-4 (Another shootout, again featuring the Madsen)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGIUETq9-SM (BOPE armored vehicle in shanty town)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waYwfk-1vo8 (Graphic!)

 

[Eightball]

if not that Masden thing, that mag looks like the L4A1--the BREN derivative in .308.

But that is definitely a Masden---there's no pistol grip.

Image courtesy of world.guns.ru

 

[Ian]

It'd be interesting to find out what caliber the Madsen is in. They made 'em in just about everything...and caliber conversions are very simple.

 

[Eightball]

It'd be interesting to find out what caliber the Madsen is in. They made 'em in just about everything...and caliber conversions are very simple.

I was actually just about to ask that. I would assume .308, because that's a large mag (too big for 5.56), and they probably like SOME form of ammo commonality, and they were already using CETMEs.

 

[Ian]

I'm not sure any were originally made in .308 - they hadn't developed the cartridge by the time Madsen production stopped. Could be retrofitted later, of course. The original guns were in things like 8mm, .30-06, 6.5x55, 7mm Mauser, 8x50R, 6.5x53R, 7.62x54R, and so on.

 

[Brother in Arms]

probably .30-06 or 7mm mauser...both are pretty common in Brazil.

Brother in Arms

 

[Leonardo]

Caliber is 7.62x51.

 

[max popenker]

Caliber is 7.62x51.

Leonardo, do you know who / when rechambered / rebarreled those old warhorses to 7,62 (Madsen stopped make them before 7,62Nato came to life)?
Do they use original mags or new mags were made?

Thanks

 

[VirgilCaine]

I don't see what's so horrible about them using a Madsen. Seems like a lethal enough weapon.