Identifying signs of excessive pressure
- Thread starter Timothy
- Start date
- Status
Clark
Member
That was no ammo, those were my handloads.
My C96 and Tokarev do better with my handloads.
My C96 and Tokarev do better with my handloads.
hubel458
Member
Tim-Some fascinating reloaders here.
You don't blow them up to test properly.I
am new here, but have been on Firing Line.
In developing my 458 Hubel Express
wildcat cartridge, I used all of the standard
signs to check pressures, and miked the belt
of the cases.Tested 4 bullet wts and 17 powders
through two barrel lengths over a 3 year period.
1900 rounds.Used Homer's pressure slide-rule
and chronograph.Picture shows two of 458HE
flanking 458Win.Cartridge on left has been fired
a hundred times with moderate loads behind 350
gr bullet.If you have good brass ,miking base
for expansion will give good sign of overpressure,
if it grows.We are also going to get a run of brass
made,so anyone interested in the most powerful
458 let me know.Ed.
You don't blow them up to test properly.I
am new here, but have been on Firing Line.
In developing my 458 Hubel Express
wildcat cartridge, I used all of the standard
signs to check pressures, and miked the belt
of the cases.Tested 4 bullet wts and 17 powders
through two barrel lengths over a 3 year period.
1900 rounds.Used Homer's pressure slide-rule
and chronograph.Picture shows two of 458HE
flanking 458Win.Cartridge on left has been fired
a hundred times with moderate loads behind 350
gr bullet.If you have good brass ,miking base
for expansion will give good sign of overpressure,
if it grows.We are also going to get a run of brass
made,so anyone interested in the most powerful
458 let me know.Ed.
Clark
Member
452/70
I just made a wildcat.
I have not had it to the range yet, but I hope to go tommorrow.
I have fireformed a case with 56 gr Re7 and 230 gr Montana Gold FMJ.
It is a 45/70 case that shoots a .452" bullet.
I used a 91/30 action and a Shilen 26" barrel blank.
I did not get a custom reamer, but used boring bar and a .469" straight fluted reamer for the last .1" of the neck.
I just made a wildcat.
I have not had it to the range yet, but I hope to go tommorrow.
I have fireformed a case with 56 gr Re7 and 230 gr Montana Gold FMJ.
It is a 45/70 case that shoots a .452" bullet.
I used a 91/30 action and a Shilen 26" barrel blank.
I did not get a custom reamer, but used boring bar and a .469" straight fluted reamer for the last .1" of the neck.
Attachments
Clark
Member
Here is the above pic
Clark
Member
Clark
Member
CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The High Road, nor the staff of THR assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.
Hodgdon max book load:
308 WINCHESTER, CASE: WINCHESTER, BBL: 24", PR: FEDERAL 210M, 168 GR. SIE HPBT COL: 2.800" H335, 42.0 gr., 2631 fps, 49,300 CUP
My test:
Pacific .308 Win reamer, VZ24 trued action, A&B fluted stainless 24" F54 barrel, H335, CCI200 primer, 2.9" OAL, Speer 168 gr. HPBT Gold Match, brass: Win308Win:
0) 42 gr. QL= 2565 fps & 46 kpsi, 0% overload, did not load 42 gr.
1) 43 gr. QL= 2618 fps & 49 kpsi, 2% overload, ok
2) 44 gr. QL= 2670 fps & 52 kpsi, 5% overload, cratered primer this and higher
3) 45 gr. QL= 2722 fps & 56 kpsi, 7% overload
4) 46 gr. QL= 2774 fps & 60 kpsi, 10% overload
5) 47 gr. QL= 2825 fps & 64 kpsi, 12% overload
6) 48 gr. QL= 2875 fps & 68 kpsi, 14% overload, mark on brass from bolt face extractor this and higher,
7) 49 gr. QL= 2925 fps & 73 kpsi, 17% overload
8) 50 gr. QL= 2974 fps & 78 kpsi, 19% overload, extractor cut on brass expands .0020"
9) 51 gr. QL= 3024 fps & 84 kpsi, 21% overload, extractor cut on brass expands .0020"
10) 52 gr. QL= 3073 fps & 90 kpsi, 24% overload, extractor cut on brass expands .0110", primer fell out,
CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The High Road, nor the staff of THR assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.
Hodgdon max book load:
308 WINCHESTER, CASE: WINCHESTER, BBL: 24", PR: FEDERAL 210M, 168 GR. SIE HPBT COL: 2.800" H335, 42.0 gr., 2631 fps, 49,300 CUP
My test:
Pacific .308 Win reamer, VZ24 trued action, A&B fluted stainless 24" F54 barrel, H335, CCI200 primer, 2.9" OAL, Speer 168 gr. HPBT Gold Match, brass: Win308Win:
0) 42 gr. QL= 2565 fps & 46 kpsi, 0% overload, did not load 42 gr.
1) 43 gr. QL= 2618 fps & 49 kpsi, 2% overload, ok
2) 44 gr. QL= 2670 fps & 52 kpsi, 5% overload, cratered primer this and higher
3) 45 gr. QL= 2722 fps & 56 kpsi, 7% overload
4) 46 gr. QL= 2774 fps & 60 kpsi, 10% overload
5) 47 gr. QL= 2825 fps & 64 kpsi, 12% overload
6) 48 gr. QL= 2875 fps & 68 kpsi, 14% overload, mark on brass from bolt face extractor this and higher,
7) 49 gr. QL= 2925 fps & 73 kpsi, 17% overload
8) 50 gr. QL= 2974 fps & 78 kpsi, 19% overload, extractor cut on brass expands .0020"
9) 51 gr. QL= 3024 fps & 84 kpsi, 21% overload, extractor cut on brass expands .0020"
10) 52 gr. QL= 3073 fps & 90 kpsi, 24% overload, extractor cut on brass expands .0110", primer fell out,
CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The High Road, nor the staff of THR assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.
Attachments
Black Snowman
Member
Looks here for signs of excessive pressure: FAL ka-Boom!
Clark
Member
Blacksnowman,
Thanks for posting that.
As incrmental overload work ups go.....
That FAL owner getting a primer fall out at 32 gr, and in the next shot going to 44 gr., took a big step.
Thanks for posting that.
As incrmental overload work ups go.....
That FAL owner getting a primer fall out at 32 gr, and in the next shot going to 44 gr., took a big step.
Black Snowman
Member
That FAL owner is me actually 
What happend is I misslabled a container and used WC820 when I though I was using WC846. WC820 is basicly a slightly more potent H-110 in the lot I have and the WC846 a slightly more potent BL-C(2). Bad powders to get mixed up. I made the incrimental loads after I blew up the FAL to figure out what happend. It wasn't until posting those results here tha someone pointed out I had switched powders.
It was just a simple mistake with a Sharpie on my part that resulted in frying the rifle and imbedding some shrapnel that's almost done working it's way out of my thumb and cheak now, months later. I got off easy.
What happend is I misslabled a container and used WC820 when I though I was using WC846. WC820 is basicly a slightly more potent H-110 in the lot I have and the WC846 a slightly more potent BL-C(2). Bad powders to get mixed up. I made the incrimental loads after I blew up the FAL to figure out what happend. It wasn't until posting those results here tha someone pointed out I had switched powders.It was just a simple mistake with a Sharpie on my part that resulted in frying the rifle and imbedding some shrapnel that's almost done working it's way out of my thumb and cheak now, months later. I got off easy.
Clark
Member
Enforcer = AA#9 =H108 = WC820
I can only vouch for the first two idenities, that I have verified through sniffing, looking, and pressure testing. The last two powder idenities are just internet rumor.
I can only vouch for the first two idenities, that I have verified through sniffing, looking, and pressure testing. The last two powder idenities are just internet rumor.
Clark
Member
There are transducers and strain gages. There are ways these can be hooked up to a battery powered lap top at the range.
Handloaded seems like such a simple hobby, but the debate surrounding pressure can get very complex.
The problems are:
1) How are the measurements accurate? Can the system be calibrated in a way that is traceable to the national beurea of standards? Are the measurments repeatable by other handloaders?
2) What maximum pressure to use? If it is just SAMMI max pressures, why not just use the loads in a load book that were develped to that standard?
It is hard to sort out becuase of all the bias:
1) Those who make such devices just want to sell them to you.
2) Those that write about handloading are worried about liablitiy.
3) Once and individual invests the money, time, and effort into a system to measure his pressure, he may then just get into a flame war on the internet.
I would like to see a chart that shows load developing shcemes in a pros and cons format:
1) CHE method:
2) PRE method:
3) copper crusher method:
4) published piezo PSI method:
5) PressureTrace strain gage:
6) My own measure the extractor groove with dial calipers method
Handloaded seems like such a simple hobby, but the debate surrounding pressure can get very complex.
The problems are:
1) How are the measurements accurate? Can the system be calibrated in a way that is traceable to the national beurea of standards? Are the measurments repeatable by other handloaders?
2) What maximum pressure to use? If it is just SAMMI max pressures, why not just use the loads in a load book that were develped to that standard?
It is hard to sort out becuase of all the bias:
1) Those who make such devices just want to sell them to you.
2) Those that write about handloading are worried about liablitiy.
3) Once and individual invests the money, time, and effort into a system to measure his pressure, he may then just get into a flame war on the internet.
I would like to see a chart that shows load developing shcemes in a pros and cons format:
1) CHE method:
2) PRE method:
3) copper crusher method:
4) published piezo PSI method:
5) PressureTrace strain gage:
6) My own measure the extractor groove with dial calipers method
- Status
