Identity and Date of Manufacture of S&W Revolvers
- Thread starter Brian Williams
- Start date
Radagast
Member
Bru88:
Your model 14-2 dates to 1966.
S&W manufactured the Model 48 K22 Masterpiece Magnum Rimfire from 1959 on and sometimes sold .22 rimfire cylinders to go with it. Serial range supposedly started at K350000 and the frame inside the cylinder yoke should be marked model 48. If it lacks the model number markings then it is as you say a K22 Masterpiece that someone has fitted a cylinder to. All adjustable sight K frames from 1949 to 1983 had a K in the serial number. If there is no K prefix to 309222 then you are quoting an assembly number, not a serial number. Check on the bottom edge of the grip frame.
If the serial number is K309222 then your gun dates to 1957, the year that model numbers were introduced. It may or may not have a model number stamped under the yoke if this is the case.
Your model 14-2 dates to 1966.
S&W manufactured the Model 48 K22 Masterpiece Magnum Rimfire from 1959 on and sometimes sold .22 rimfire cylinders to go with it. Serial range supposedly started at K350000 and the frame inside the cylinder yoke should be marked model 48. If it lacks the model number markings then it is as you say a K22 Masterpiece that someone has fitted a cylinder to. All adjustable sight K frames from 1949 to 1983 had a K in the serial number. If there is no K prefix to 309222 then you are quoting an assembly number, not a serial number. Check on the bottom edge of the grip frame.
If the serial number is K309222 then your gun dates to 1957, the year that model numbers were introduced. It may or may not have a model number stamped under the yoke if this is the case.
Radagast- Thanks for the information on these revolvers. I stripped down the 1917 to look for any markings I may have overlooked in the hopes of better identifying this piece's history. I looked up some auctions any other photos I can find of M1917 Smiths online and don't see any S prefixes on the butt where I read the serial from. The assembly numbers on the frame, crane and sideplate match. The only 'S' I spotted was on the underside of the barrel after the serial.
Here are a few photos of what I found:
Flaming bomb ordnance stamp - rather faint along with the details on the S&W crest which led me to believe it's been refinished by a previous owner.
http://upload.hooverae.com/images/DrakeGmbH/mg2115.jpg
Markings on the left side of the grip frame. Note I blurred out the last two digits of the serial and assembly numbers when they appear.
http://upload.hooverae.com/images/DrakeGmbH/mg2116b.jpg
Markings on the butt of the frame:
http://upload.hooverae.com/images/DrakeGmbH/mg2127b.jpg
Assembly number and inspector marks (?) on the frame under the crane:
http://upload.hooverae.com/images/DrakeGmbH/mg2122b.jpg
Assembly number on the crane:
http://upload.hooverae.com/images/DrakeGmbH/mg2117b.jpg
Assembly number on the sideplate:
http://upload.hooverae.com/images/DrakeGmbH/mg2124b.jpg
S and diamond (?) stamp on the underside of the barrel with serial number:
http://upload.hooverae.com/images/DrakeGmbH/mg2118b.jpg
Patent stamp on top of barrel:
http://upload.hooverae.com/images/DrakeGmbH/mg2111.jpg
Right side of barrel. Forgot to take a shot of the left side - it's stamped SMITH & WESSON.
http://upload.hooverae.com/images/DrakeGmbH/mg21121.jpg
Closeup of the front sight:
http://upload.hooverae.com/images/DrakeGmbH/mg2123.jpg
Closeup of rear sight - very shallow notch. Not as deep as the rear on a 10-5 heavy barrel I was considering a few weeks ago.
http://upload.hooverae.com/images/DrakeGmbH/mg2114.jpg
Detail of the hammer spur:
http://upload.hooverae.com/images/DrakeGmbH/mg2113.jpg
Here are a few photos of what I found:
Flaming bomb ordnance stamp - rather faint along with the details on the S&W crest which led me to believe it's been refinished by a previous owner.
http://upload.hooverae.com/images/DrakeGmbH/mg2115.jpg
Markings on the left side of the grip frame. Note I blurred out the last two digits of the serial and assembly numbers when they appear.
http://upload.hooverae.com/images/DrakeGmbH/mg2116b.jpg
Markings on the butt of the frame:
http://upload.hooverae.com/images/DrakeGmbH/mg2127b.jpg
Assembly number and inspector marks (?) on the frame under the crane:
http://upload.hooverae.com/images/DrakeGmbH/mg2122b.jpg
Assembly number on the crane:
http://upload.hooverae.com/images/DrakeGmbH/mg2117b.jpg
Assembly number on the sideplate:
http://upload.hooverae.com/images/DrakeGmbH/mg2124b.jpg
S and diamond (?) stamp on the underside of the barrel with serial number:
http://upload.hooverae.com/images/DrakeGmbH/mg2118b.jpg
Patent stamp on top of barrel:
http://upload.hooverae.com/images/DrakeGmbH/mg2111.jpg
Right side of barrel. Forgot to take a shot of the left side - it's stamped SMITH & WESSON.
http://upload.hooverae.com/images/DrakeGmbH/mg21121.jpg
Closeup of the front sight:
http://upload.hooverae.com/images/DrakeGmbH/mg2123.jpg
Closeup of rear sight - very shallow notch. Not as deep as the rear on a 10-5 heavy barrel I was considering a few weeks ago.
http://upload.hooverae.com/images/DrakeGmbH/mg2114.jpg
Detail of the hammer spur:
http://upload.hooverae.com/images/DrakeGmbH/mg2113.jpg
jkraig
Member
I have a S&W 38 Special I am trying to determine the year and model. I was thinking it was a 1950's M&P, but looking through this I may be incorrect. It has a parkenized finish rather than a regular blued finish - all original.
Thanks in advance for the help - Serial Number is 4853xx. It was my grandfathers, then my fathers, and now mine. My grandfather bought it from a retired police officer sometime in the 50's-60's.
Thanks in advance for the help - Serial Number is 4853xx. It was my grandfathers, then my fathers, and now mine. My grandfather bought it from a retired police officer sometime in the 50's-60's.
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Radagast
Member
jkraig: You have a S&W Victory Model. This was a 38 Military & Police Model of 1904 5th Change with a wartime finish called Black Magic, similar to parkerising. your serial number places it between the beginning 1942 and September 1944. Grips were normally a smooth walnut, not the diamond magnas seen on your gun. If the gun is not US Property marked or otherwise showing govt. acceptance stamps such as GHD then it's possible the grips are original to the gun and it was sold to a private buyer.
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Radagast
Member
DrakeGmbH:
the eagles head & S4 are acceptance marks for one of the US army assistant inspectors from April 1918 to January 1919.
The S stamp on the underside of the barrel may have been an addition to put it in the S serial range, I've seen S & SV prefixes on Victory models that were separated from the serial number by the Lanyard loop for example. It may have another meaning that I don't know though. Strictly supposition.
The assembly numbers are irrelevant, other than as proof that the gun is not a 'bitzer', they don't help define age.
The Ordnance bomb is in the correct location for a US military gun.
Per SCSW the patent dates should read Smith & Wesson Springfield Mass. U.S.A. Patented Dec 17, 1901. Feb. 6 1906. Sep.14 1909. I can't make out the full list of numbers on yours, but it looks like the 1901 date is deleted and a later date added.
The front sight appears to be forged to the barrel. someone has hand cut it with a file to a 1950s style.
.44 Hand ejectors (built on the same frame) of the interwar years didn't have the 4 line address either. An example is Tamara's Model of 1926. http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_6PbD56mSkS8/SdAxDKKmePI/AAAAAAAAA8c/e-HQ1T7Zzcw/s1600-h/44he3rd.jpg
Nor did the .38 special 38/44 Heavy Duty.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_6PbD56mSkS8/RqzhfQwmniI/AAAAAAAAAKI/74mabmW0HUQ/s1600-h/3844heavyduty.jpg
Based on the evidence at hand, I think you have one of the guns S&W bought back from the US army as ' frames and parts' which they have refinished and sold as a new firearm sometime close to 1950, including stamping the 4 line address and the S&W logo on the right side of the frame.
the eagles head & S4 are acceptance marks for one of the US army assistant inspectors from April 1918 to January 1919.
The S stamp on the underside of the barrel may have been an addition to put it in the S serial range, I've seen S & SV prefixes on Victory models that were separated from the serial number by the Lanyard loop for example. It may have another meaning that I don't know though. Strictly supposition.
The assembly numbers are irrelevant, other than as proof that the gun is not a 'bitzer', they don't help define age.
The Ordnance bomb is in the correct location for a US military gun.
Per SCSW the patent dates should read Smith & Wesson Springfield Mass. U.S.A. Patented Dec 17, 1901. Feb. 6 1906. Sep.14 1909. I can't make out the full list of numbers on yours, but it looks like the 1901 date is deleted and a later date added.
The front sight appears to be forged to the barrel. someone has hand cut it with a file to a 1950s style.
.44 Hand ejectors (built on the same frame) of the interwar years didn't have the 4 line address either. An example is Tamara's Model of 1926. http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_6PbD56mSkS8/SdAxDKKmePI/AAAAAAAAA8c/e-HQ1T7Zzcw/s1600-h/44he3rd.jpg
Nor did the .38 special 38/44 Heavy Duty.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_6PbD56mSkS8/RqzhfQwmniI/AAAAAAAAAKI/74mabmW0HUQ/s1600-h/3844heavyduty.jpg
Based on the evidence at hand, I think you have one of the guns S&W bought back from the US army as ' frames and parts' which they have refinished and sold as a new firearm sometime close to 1950, including stamping the 4 line address and the S&W logo on the right side of the frame.
Radagast- I had trouble getting the whole patent stamp in focus, it reads:
SMITH & WESSON SPRINGFIELD MASS USA.
PATENTED FEB.6.06. SEPT.14.09. DEC.29.14.
Any idea when the 1914 date was added and the 1901 date removed? I suspected the assembly numbers were arbitrary in regards to serial production but wasn't certain if they were recorded anywhere.
I'm glad to see my evaluation of it wasn't too far from the mark. I'm still new to the S&W series so I didn't have a leg to stand on to support my hypothesis. Thanks again for doing the research.
SMITH & WESSON SPRINGFIELD MASS USA.
PATENTED FEB.6.06. SEPT.14.09. DEC.29.14.
Any idea when the 1914 date was added and the 1901 date removed? I suspected the assembly numbers were arbitrary in regards to serial production but wasn't certain if they were recorded anywhere.
I'm glad to see my evaluation of it wasn't too far from the mark. I'm still new to the S&W series so I didn't have a leg to stand on to support my hypothesis. Thanks again for doing the research.
woodsoup
Member
Model 64-5 info please.
I just purchased this from J&G sales.
Model 64-5
4" barrel
fixed sights
ser #cbw85xx
It is a police/security turn in, Factory DAO w/bobbed hammer.
Thanx.
I just purchased this from J&G sales.
Model 64-5
4" barrel
fixed sights
ser #cbw85xx
It is a police/security turn in, Factory DAO w/bobbed hammer.
Thanx.
TIRED TRAVELER
Member
Radagast
Member
Drake GmbH:
Speculation only, but in 1915 S&W deleted the .44 Special Triple Lock and brought out the .44 Hand Ejector 2nd Model, which the .45 caliber Model 1917 is based on. I would assume that one of the design changes for the 2nd Model is the relevant patent date.
The other possibility is that the internal changes for the .38 Military & Police Model of 1905 4th Change of 1915 were carried over to the larger N frame guns. At some point S&W started stamping the relevant patent date on their barrels and deleted the earlier one for lack of room or because it was superseded.
Speculation only, but in 1915 S&W deleted the .44 Special Triple Lock and brought out the .44 Hand Ejector 2nd Model, which the .45 caliber Model 1917 is based on. I would assume that one of the design changes for the 2nd Model is the relevant patent date.
The other possibility is that the internal changes for the .38 Military & Police Model of 1905 4th Change of 1915 were carried over to the larger N frame guns. At some point S&W started stamping the relevant patent date on their barrels and deleted the earlier one for lack of room or because it was superseded.
Radagast
Member
woodsoup:
Between August & October 1997.
TIRED TRAVELLER:
Your gun is a .38 Military & Police / Model 10 manufactured in 1960. It is referred to as a 4 screw model, three screws hold on the side plate and one in the trigger guard.
The standard Catalog of S&W gave a value of $350 in excellent condition in 2006.
Between August & October 1997.
TIRED TRAVELLER:
Your gun is a .38 Military & Police / Model 10 manufactured in 1960. It is referred to as a 4 screw model, three screws hold on the side plate and one in the trigger guard.
The standard Catalog of S&W gave a value of $350 in excellent condition in 2006.
Hi All
Interesting reading through the posts, wonder if i could ask for some thoughts all the way from Aus on the born date for my model 14-2, it s a 6" .38 Serial K699314 Model 14-2 48360- L. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
Many thnaks in advance
Peter
Interesting reading through the posts, wonder if i could ask for some thoughts all the way from Aus on the born date for my model 14-2, it s a 6" .38 Serial K699314 Model 14-2 48360- L. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
Many thnaks in advance
Peter
Radagast
Member
Peter1972:
I'm an Aussie too, Sydney based.
Your 14-2 was manufactured in 1966. K699314 is the serial number. 486360- L is an assembly number used to track parts in the factory. Only the serial number is relevant once the gun has been completed.
The 14-2 is a variant of the K38 Target Masterpiece introduced in 1946 and continuing in production until 1999. Based on the Military & Police revolver, it had the .22lr K22 Target Masterpiece and the K32 Target Masterpiece as it's companion guns. In 1957 model numbers were introduced and the K38 became the model 14. The -2 refers to the second major engineering change, being the deletion of the screw in the front of the trigger guard, so yours is a 'three screw' gun, with three screws holding the side plate on.
Current value in OZ would be $550 to $650, depending on condition.
I'm an Aussie too, Sydney based.
Your 14-2 was manufactured in 1966. K699314 is the serial number. 486360- L is an assembly number used to track parts in the factory. Only the serial number is relevant once the gun has been completed.
The 14-2 is a variant of the K38 Target Masterpiece introduced in 1946 and continuing in production until 1999. Based on the Military & Police revolver, it had the .22lr K22 Target Masterpiece and the K32 Target Masterpiece as it's companion guns. In 1957 model numbers were introduced and the K38 became the model 14. The -2 refers to the second major engineering change, being the deletion of the screw in the front of the trigger guard, so yours is a 'three screw' gun, with three screws holding the side plate on.
Current value in OZ would be $550 to $650, depending on condition.
Thankyou!
Hi Rhadagast
Thanks heaps fro the info, exactly what i was after, i was searching for a while to come up with a good clean 14. After searching all over the net i finally post on a US site to get a response from not that far away, go figure. My father used to own a K38 back in the 70's and i have always wanted one myself, found one and out to the range earlier this week straight after picking it up and it was shooting a respectible group within minutes of some sighting adjustments, just goes to show you cant improve on perfection, they got it right manufacturing these puppies.
Anyway thanks again for the post and info.
Cheers
Peter
Hi Rhadagast
Thanks heaps fro the info, exactly what i was after, i was searching for a while to come up with a good clean 14. After searching all over the net i finally post on a US site to get a response from not that far away, go figure. My father used to own a K38 back in the 70's and i have always wanted one myself, found one and out to the range earlier this week straight after picking it up and it was shooting a respectible group within minutes of some sighting adjustments, just goes to show you cant improve on perfection, they got it right manufacturing these puppies.
Anyway thanks again for the post and info.
Cheers
Peter
michanecash
Member
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2009
- Messages
- 2
a) .38
b) 4
c) round???
d) 6
e) fixed
f) 4D43XXX
g)10-7
My grandfather was in the korean war and I think he bought this during or after. When he died we found this in his room. Along with 2 m1903 A3 (one with normal rivets(?) and one that looks like all the wood frame is put together with small wood trim nails. We also found 1000-2000 rounds of Korean made US m2 ball amo. All were in US ammo crates (one side english, one side Korean). There was one crate with boxed amo and one with pre loaded clips in satchels (green army).
Needless to say he was a unique man.
b) 4
c) round???
d) 6
e) fixed
f) 4D43XXX
g)10-7
My grandfather was in the korean war and I think he bought this during or after. When he died we found this in his room. Along with 2 m1903 A3 (one with normal rivets(?) and one that looks like all the wood frame is put together with small wood trim nails. We also found 1000-2000 rounds of Korean made US m2 ball amo. All were in US ammo crates (one side english, one side Korean). There was one crate with boxed amo and one with pre loaded clips in satchels (green army).
Needless to say he was a unique man.
Hi, I'm looking for some info on a older S&W if someone could help. I can post a picture if needed. Its a "38 S. & W. SPECIAL CTG." 4 inch, nickle plated, 6 shot with fixed sights, had wood grips that were replaced with an ivory version. Serial # is 295542, open the cylinder and stamped in the upper yolk is what looks to be "LVRR" with the number 6675 stamped underneath. Wondered about the age and model it was called. TIA
Radagast
Member
michanecash:
The model 10-7 was manufactured in 1979, it was the standard police service revolver of it's day. I can't give you any info on the 1903s.
NDCent:
You have a .38 Military & Police model of 1905 4th Change, manufactured between 1915 & 1920. This is the ancestor to the current Model 10 & Model 64 revolvers. Literally millions were made in the last 110 years.
Your gun predates heat treatment of cylinders, so it should only be shot with standard velocity lead ammunition. 158 grain lead round nose is the round the sights were calibrated for and would be the easiest to find.
It lacks the modern hammer block safety, so potentially if dropped on it's hammer it could fire. Old guns like this should only be kept loaded with the hammer down on an empty chamber.
6675 would be an assembly number, used to track parts in the factory and irrelevant after the gun is assembled. LVRR may also be assembly markings or it may be an owners stamp. A possible example being as a railroad that issued it to a detective or guard.
The model 10-7 was manufactured in 1979, it was the standard police service revolver of it's day. I can't give you any info on the 1903s.
NDCent:
You have a .38 Military & Police model of 1905 4th Change, manufactured between 1915 & 1920. This is the ancestor to the current Model 10 & Model 64 revolvers. Literally millions were made in the last 110 years.
Your gun predates heat treatment of cylinders, so it should only be shot with standard velocity lead ammunition. 158 grain lead round nose is the round the sights were calibrated for and would be the easiest to find.
It lacks the modern hammer block safety, so potentially if dropped on it's hammer it could fire. Old guns like this should only be kept loaded with the hammer down on an empty chamber.
6675 would be an assembly number, used to track parts in the factory and irrelevant after the gun is assembled. LVRR may also be assembly markings or it may be an owners stamp. A possible example being as a railroad that issued it to a detective or guard.
michanecash
Member
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2009
- Messages
- 2
Thanks for the help.
exdetsgt
Member
Sirs:
Just bought from a friend today an S&W 15-3 Serial No. K992039. It has a 4" barrel, ramp front sight, adjustable rear sight, walnut grips. Price was $250 and it seems in quite good shape with minor holster wear.
Along the left side of the frame, just above the trigger, is the stamping D.P.S. 0524.
I live in Arizona and D.P.S. stands for (Arizona) Department of Public Safety, so it was probably issued to the Arizona Highway Patrol.
Any thoughts on date of manufacture?
Thanks.
Just bought from a friend today an S&W 15-3 Serial No. K992039. It has a 4" barrel, ramp front sight, adjustable rear sight, walnut grips. Price was $250 and it seems in quite good shape with minor holster wear.
Along the left side of the frame, just above the trigger, is the stamping D.P.S. 0524.
I live in Arizona and D.P.S. stands for (Arizona) Department of Public Safety, so it was probably issued to the Arizona Highway Patrol.
Any thoughts on date of manufacture?
Thanks.
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woodsoup
Member
I just purchased a second one from J&G sales, the first one was addictive 
.
Model 64 no dash 4" barrel
fixed sights
Ser #BNW35xx
It is a police/security turn in, Factory DAO w/bobbed hammer.
.Model 64 no dash 4" barrel
fixed sights
Ser #BNW35xx
It is a police/security turn in, Factory DAO w/bobbed hammer.
Radagast
Member
exdetsgt:
Your 15-3 was made in 1970. $250 sounds like a very good price.
woodsoup:
Around March 1993. It should be a 64-5.
Your 15-3 was made in 1970. $250 sounds like a very good price.
woodsoup:
Around March 1993. It should be a 64-5.
hk lover
Member
dob
model 28 highway patrolman serial #n40871 28-2
model 28 highway patrolman serial #n40871 28-2
Lastmohecken
Member
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2007
- Messages
- 76
I recently purchased a Smith and Wesson, 4 inch Model 29-2, 44 mag, pinned barrel, blued, square butt, recessed cylinders, seriel #N7400xx. I know it was probably made in the 70's but I am curious as to about what year.
