Identity and Date of Manufacture of S&W Revolvers

[jamsit]

S&w .38

.... not sure site still active... if it is, would appreciate info on 'inherited' S&W .38.. 3.875" barrel length... 'roundish/oval' grips... five (5) shot... front 'fin', rear 'depression' sights... S207 on base of grip... 4280 on cylinder face... Tx

 

[Radagast]

Charlie Rock:
Your 38 Military & Police Model 10-7 was manufactured in 1979, the -7 refers to an engineering change on the tapered barrel version.
The numbers under the crane are assembly numbers used to track fitted parts in the factory. They are irrelevant once the gun is completed.
Built on the medium sized K frame, the Model 10 had it's origins in the .38 Miltary & Police 1st Model of 1899. With several million made the Model 10 is still in production today.

jamsit:
A little more info would be helpful. Does the cylinder swing out to the side or does the barrel hinge down and the cylinder rise up to load?
The barrel length should be measured from the forcing cone (cylinder end) to the muzzle, not from the frame to the muzzle. Which way did you measure it?
Is the barrel marked ".38 S&W CTG" or "38 S&W SPL*

The 5 shot revolver series didn't have an S prefix to the serial number, are you sure it isn't a 5? And did you leave any numbers off?

 

[Maj Dad]

Looking at a Nice Pre-Mod 10

a) 38 spl
b) 5"
c) Square butt
d) 6 shot
e) fixed sights
f) SN 545097
g) no Mod # on crane

I'm leaning toward getting it - bit of finish wear, perfect internals and very nice grips (early Magnas, look like replacement).
Thanks,
Maj Dad

 

[Radagast]

Maj Dad:
You are considering a .38 Military & Police Model of 1905 4th Change manufactured between 1927 & 1930. This gun has a heat treated cylinder, so it should be fine with any non PlusP ammunition (S&W do not recommed PlusP in guns made before 1957). It lacks the modern hammer block safety, so it would be prudent to carry it with the hammer down on an empty chamber.

 

[wnycollector]

a) caliber --.357
b) bbl length --4"
c) grips shape -- square
d) number of shots--6
e) type of sights--fixed
f) serial number--ACR53XX
g) Model number--13-3

Thanks in advance!

 

[Radagast]

wnycollector:
Between January & October 1983.

 

[nswtex]

a) caliber --.32
b) bbl length --4"
c) grips shape -- square
d) number of shots--6
e) type of sights--fixed
f) serial number--782083
g) Model number--31-1

How DO you guys do it

Sorry for rough pics, my iphone can run the space station but cant take a decent photo.

 

[Radagast]

nswtex:
We look up the Standard Catalog of S&W by Jim Supica & Richard Nahas, third edition published in 2006 by Gun Digest Books.
A couple of the older and more informed posters have just accumulated enough gun knowledge over the years to fill an encyclopedia. If Old Fuff speaks we listen. Saxon Pig, Peter M Eick, RCModel and Jim Keenan come to mind as well. I just happen to be the guy with the book beside the PC.

Your model 31-1 .32 Regulation Police, caliber .32 S&W long was manufactured in 1969 or 1969. the -1 means it is a J frame gun, the early no dash versions used the slightly smaller I frame.

 

[camsdaddy]

Would you mind looking at post 1843.
Thank you

 

[goodeone]

a)38 short
b)6 in.
c)round grip
d)5 shot
e)adjustable rear sight
f)# 200920
g)38 S&W OTG
center brake internal hammer...
i was wondering what the gun is worth and some history on it...

 

[Radagast]

camsdaddy:
Looks like the gremlins ate my reply. Your 13-1 .357 Magnum Military & Police was manufactured in 1976 or 1977. Serial number range for those years was D870001 to D999999.

goodeone:
The stamping on the barrel is actually .38 S&W CTG for cartridge, often it does look like OTG. With that serial number and barrel length it should be a top break revolver where the barrel swings down and the cylinder up. If the cylinder swings out to the side like a modern revolver then it is something else again.
If it has an exposed hammer it is a .38 double action third model manufactured between 1884 & 1895. These are classified as antiques by the BATF.
If it has an internal hammer and a grip safety then it is a .38 Safety Hammerless 4th Model manufactured between 1898 & 1907. These are not considered antiques by the BATF.
Although modern .38 S&W loads are reduced to allow use in these old guns that were designed for low pressure blackpowder ammunition, shooting them will still accelerate wear. If you do want to shoot this old gun I suggest you buy 'cowboy' loads or even black powder/black powder substitute loads.

 

[camsdaddy]

Thanks Radagast. That makes a gun that was already one of my favorites more special. It seems we share the same birth year.

 

[Maj Dad]

S 945104

I missed the first one, but landed this one (less than $300, too ):

a) 38 spl
b) 5"
c) Square butt
d) 6 shot
e) fixed sights
f) SN S 945104
g) no Mod # on crane

The only real minus is the grip stock finish - seller said it looked like it had softened and rehardened, or had been refinished. I might try to redo, or find some originals (or leave them alone). I'm not sure why I am drawn to these old soldiers instead of the spiffy new ones; might have something to do with being an old soldier...

 

[Radagast]

Maj_Dad:
You have a post war .38 Miltary & Police revolver manufactured between September 1945 and April 1948. It has the modern hammer block safety introduced during the war and also has the old "Long Action", which was noted for it's smoothness. The current "short action" replaced it in April 1948.
The finish appears to be original to me with some normal wear from use. Grips are correct for the period.
That's a nice gun. I wouldn't change it at all.

 

[gwalker99]

S&W.38 special ctg 4.5 inch 3538++

Hi, I want to say how great this forum is, and ask about this S&W .38 special CTG w/ dates on the top of barrel Oct 8.01 Dec 17.01 and Sept 14.09I have tried to search the threads for a similar gun. But I haven't seen one with brass or copper inlay at the top of the grip can you tell me the age and value? thanks

 

[Radagast]

gwalker99:
You have a .38 Miltary & Police Model of 1905 4th Change manufactured between September 1919 & December 1920. Your gun was made after the introduction of heat treated cylinders, so it should be fine to shoot with modern standard pressure ammunition.
Although it has a rudimentary internal hammer block safety, there was a case of this failing in WII when the gun was dropped, resulting in the death of a serviceman. It would be prudent to keep the hammer down on an empty chamber.
There should be gold colored S&W monogrammes at the top of the grips. the inlay may be the remains of these.
Severla million Military & Police revolvers have been maun factured over the last 111 years, so value is not high. Assuming good mechanical condition your gun is probably worth $150 to $225.

 

[goodeone]

thanks radagast...i was wondering what the gun is worth and maby some history on the gun? it has an internal hammer, grip safety and center brake...thanks for your help.
goodeone

 

[Maj Dad]

Radagast, that makes the pistol about same age as me - Jun46 - no wonder I am drawn to it!
Many thanks for the service, and
Cheers,
George Jacoby, Maj, USAF, Ret
Sumter, SC
(hope its joints are better off than mine )

 

[Radagast]

goodeone:
The Safety Hammerless, New Departure (factory name) or Lemon Squeezer (nickname) was manufactured from 1887 to 1940 in .32 S&W and .38 S&W calibers. Usually found with short barrels, some 242981 .32 caliber firearms and 26493 .38 caliber firearms were manufactured.
The grip safety allowed for safe pocket carry, and the hammerless design allowed it to be fired in a pocket or drawn swiftly without hanging up. These were very popular firearms in their day, and although S&W did not come up with the hammerless design, they certainly popularised it, with Iver Johnson, Harrington & Richardson and various european manufactures coming out with their own hammerless designs.
The standard catalog of S&W gave the following values in 2006:
As new $600, Excellent plus: $500, Excellent $400, Fine $265, Very good, $265, Good $175, Fair $125, Poor $60.
Value for the six inch version may be slightly higher.

 

[rainbowbob]

How about this Model 40 Centennial?

a) 38 spl
b) 1 7/8"
c) round butt (smooth walnut stocks, grip safety)
d) 5 shot
e) fixed sights
f) SN L9439
g) M 40


Thanks!

 

[Radagast]

rainbowbob:
1971-1974, serial range was L1 to L9861. So 1974 seems likely.

 

[FatChance]

We'd need to know :

a) caliber
b) bbl length (from cylinder to muzzle)
c) grips shape (round or square)
d) number of shots/cylinder bores
e) type of sights.
f) serial number, and if there is a letter in front of or anywhere near the s/n on the bottom of the grip
g) Model number if it is under the crane.
That number, if it is the s/n, should come from the butt of the grip (or under the barrel or face of the cylinder

S&W First Model .38 M&P. Latest patent date 10/4/98

a) The caliber is not marked anywhere on the gun that I been able to find, even with a magnifier, but probably .38 Special(?) at least according to the seller, who has shot it with .38 Special LRN.
b) 6 1/2"
c) Round butt
d) 6 shot
e) Fixed sights
f) S/N #1594 on the butt
g) Probably not a model number, but in a small font under the crane and on the crane is "725".






Any information appreciated!

Thanks for you help!

 

[Radagast]

FatChance:
The .38 Military & Police 1st Model (Model of 1899 Army-Navy Revolver) was manufactured between 1899 & 1902 in the serial range 1 to 20975. Guns for the US navy were manufactured in the 5000 serial range in 1900, so your gun is from 1899 or 1900.
The .38 Miltary & Police introduced the K frame and the .38 Special cartridge, which was a stretched version of the .38 Long Colt.
The .38 Long Colt was the issue cartridge for US forces at the time, so S&W stamped the barrels ".38 S&W Special CTG & US Service CTG" on the left side- they weren't going to stamp Colt on one of their products!
Available barrel lengths were 4, 5,6 & 6.5 inches.
Grips were hard rubber with S&W monogram (as on your gun) or plain walnut.
Finish was blue or nickel, both with color case hardened trigger and hammer.
The 1st model is easily distinguished by the lack of a barrel locking lug.

The 725 under the crane is an assembly number used to track parts in the factory.
Yours doesn't fall in the correct serial range for the Army or Navy contracts,
so it is a civilian gun.
The Standard Catalog of S&W gave the following values in 2006:
As new in box $2000, Excellent plus $1200, Excellent $700, Very good $500, Good $375, Fair $250, Poor $150.
Yours probably falls in the very good to excellent band.
This model lacks a hammer block safety so if kept loaded the chamber under the hammer should be left empty.
The cylinder was not heat treated so only standard pressure lead ammunition should be used. The sights are probably regulated for 158 grain lead round nose. Due to it's age and being on the cusp of the transition from blackpowder to smokeless it may be prudent to load a black powder substitute load rather than using modern factory smokeless ammunition in it.

 

[Alimony Bob]

Radagasst - You're sure doing a nice job of educating the rest of us. Thanks. - Bob

 

[FatChance]

Radagast - Thank you for your informative post about my old S&W. I appreciate it!