Identity and Date of Manufacture of S&W Revolvers
- Thread starter Brian Williams
- Start date
Radagast
Member
bob walton:
I answered in your original thread:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=523160
Close to a million Victory Models and British Service Revolvers were made in the period 1941-1945, there is no closer break down available, unless you pay $50 and have the S&W factory historian Mr Roy Jinks look up the original shipping documents.
I answered in your original thread:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=523160
Close to a million Victory Models and British Service Revolvers were made in the period 1941-1945, there is no closer break down available, unless you pay $50 and have the S&W factory historian Mr Roy Jinks look up the original shipping documents.
PastorPick
Member
- Joined
- May 16, 2010
- Messages
- 2
S&W Model 29-3, .44 magnum
3 inch full lug magnaported Barrel.
The barrel has "Second Chance" engraved into it.
"Magnaport Custom" is engraved below the cylinder release.
Below the S&W trade mark right above the trigger are the numbers "002"
Serial number is; N 908328
3 inch full lug magnaported Barrel.
The barrel has "Second Chance" engraved into it.
"Magnaport Custom" is engraved below the cylinder release.
Below the S&W trade mark right above the trigger are the numbers "002"
Serial number is; N 908328
Radagast
Member
PastorPick:
That's an interesting gun.
MagnaPort is a company that pioneered electron discharge machining to cut compensator ports in the barrels of guns, including revolvers.
Second Chance was a manufacturer of body armour founded by Richard Davies.
For many years Richard Davies ran the Second Chance Shoot, a bowling pin shooting competition in Michigan.
Lew Horton is a distributor of S&W revolvers who would order limited production runs of S&W revolvers in unusual configurations.
Your gun probably started out as a Lew Horton Special, S&W made 5000 M29-3 Combat Magnum's with a three inch full lug barrel, contoured wooden grips, adjustable white outline rear sight, red ramp front sight, adjustable white outline rear sight, smooth combat trigger and semi target hammer. Product code was 101224. These were manufactured 1984-1985. The serial number is right for that date range, with N97xxxx being recorded in 1986.
I've no proof, but I'm willing to speculate that your gun was customized for Rich Davies, potentially as a prize for the Second Chance Shoot.
That's an interesting gun.
MagnaPort is a company that pioneered electron discharge machining to cut compensator ports in the barrels of guns, including revolvers.
Second Chance was a manufacturer of body armour founded by Richard Davies.
For many years Richard Davies ran the Second Chance Shoot, a bowling pin shooting competition in Michigan.
Lew Horton is a distributor of S&W revolvers who would order limited production runs of S&W revolvers in unusual configurations.
Your gun probably started out as a Lew Horton Special, S&W made 5000 M29-3 Combat Magnum's with a three inch full lug barrel, contoured wooden grips, adjustable white outline rear sight, red ramp front sight, adjustable white outline rear sight, smooth combat trigger and semi target hammer. Product code was 101224. These were manufactured 1984-1985. The serial number is right for that date range, with N97xxxx being recorded in 1986.
I've no proof, but I'm willing to speculate that your gun was customized for Rich Davies, potentially as a prize for the Second Chance Shoot.
PastorPick
Member
- Joined
- May 16, 2010
- Messages
- 2
Thank you Radagast!
I found it down at the local pawn shop/sporting goods store and thought it would make a fine back-up gun for hog hunting. I fired 50 rnds of 225 and 240 grain through it this past Sunday and it is a hoot! Now I just need a good tactical/field holster and we will be good to go.
This revolver is exactly as you describe, so it must be a Rich Davies by way of Lew Horton deal. It is just a fine gun!
I might even end up using it for some concealed carry too just for GP. Boy howdy! Out here.
Pastor P.
I found it down at the local pawn shop/sporting goods store and thought it would make a fine back-up gun for hog hunting. I fired 50 rnds of 225 and 240 grain through it this past Sunday and it is a hoot! Now I just need a good tactical/field holster and we will be good to go.
This revolver is exactly as you describe, so it must be a Rich Davies by way of Lew Horton deal. It is just a fine gun!
I might even end up using it for some concealed carry too just for GP. Boy howdy! Out here.
Pastor P.
Radagast
Member
drw2514:
Your Model 15-3 Combat Masterpiece was manufactured in 1970. Nickel was a factory option, so unless the gun has been refinished in hard chrome, then it is nickel.
Your Model 15-3 Combat Masterpiece was manufactured in 1970. Nickel was a factory option, so unless the gun has been refinished in hard chrome, then it is nickel.
Radagast
Member
gtsrig:
Your model 686 Distinguished Combat Magnum was manufactured between January 1984 & November 1984.
There is a recall on this version of the 686, if the gun has been modified under the recoil there will be an M stamped beside the serial number under the yoke.
With some guns and some magnum ammunition it was possible for the primer to flow back into the firing pin bushing, binding the gun. Under the recall S&W will fit a new firing pin and bushing. They will pay shipping both ways. If you want to take advantage of this give S&W a call.
E20, S & 922xx are assembly numbers used to track parts in the factory. They are irrelevant once the gun is assembled.
Your model 686 Distinguished Combat Magnum was manufactured between January 1984 & November 1984.
There is a recall on this version of the 686, if the gun has been modified under the recoil there will be an M stamped beside the serial number under the yoke.
With some guns and some magnum ammunition it was possible for the primer to flow back into the firing pin bushing, binding the gun. Under the recall S&W will fit a new firing pin and bushing. They will pay shipping both ways. If you want to take advantage of this give S&W a call.
E20, S & 922xx are assembly numbers used to track parts in the factory. They are irrelevant once the gun is assembled.
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MMCSRET
Member
Regulation Police
Picked up a nice Regulation Police at the Hamilton Montana gun show this past week end.
38 S&W, 4", diamond grips w/o medallion, assembly # on frame, crane and grips, nice original blue with minor wear on usual points.
Serial # 36XXX on front grip strap and cylinder.
Approximate ship date, please.
How many different models were included in the same serial number range?
Thanks
Picked up a nice Regulation Police at the Hamilton Montana gun show this past week end.
38 S&W, 4", diamond grips w/o medallion, assembly # on frame, crane and grips, nice original blue with minor wear on usual points.
Serial # 36XXX on front grip strap and cylinder.
Approximate ship date, please.
How many different models were included in the same serial number range?
Thanks
squarles67
Member
Have 2
.357 mag
4"
square butt
6 shot
adjustable / red ramp
179K4xx
66-2
.357 mag
6"
square butt
6 shot
adjustable / red ramp
AET70xx
66-2
.357 mag
4"
square butt
6 shot
adjustable / red ramp
179K4xx
66-2
.357 mag
6"
square butt
6 shot
adjustable / red ramp
AET70xx
66-2
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Radagast
Member
MMCSRET:
The pre-war .38 Regulation Police was manufactured between 1917 & 1940 in the serial range 1 to 54474. The pre-war .38/32 Terrier was manufactured in the same serial range from around 1936 (serial 38976) to 54474. The Standard Catalog of S&W notes that serial number in the 47440 to 48127 range shipped in January 1938.
Based on roughly 9000 guns being produced in the period 1936 to 1938, it seems likely your gun shipped in either 1935 or 1936.
Both the Regulation Police and Terrier began production again in 1948/49 in the same serial range, continuing until1969 at serial number 122678, when a new serial range with an R prefix began.
In 1957 the Regulation Police became the Model 33 and the Terrier became the Model 32. In 1961 both switched from the .32 sized I frame to the slightly larger .38 special sized J frame. J frame guns have a -1 after the model number.
The .32 Regulation Police and .32 Hand Ejector shared a separate serial range.
The pre-war .38 Regulation Police was manufactured between 1917 & 1940 in the serial range 1 to 54474. The pre-war .38/32 Terrier was manufactured in the same serial range from around 1936 (serial 38976) to 54474. The Standard Catalog of S&W notes that serial number in the 47440 to 48127 range shipped in January 1938.
Based on roughly 9000 guns being produced in the period 1936 to 1938, it seems likely your gun shipped in either 1935 or 1936.
Both the Regulation Police and Terrier began production again in 1948/49 in the same serial range, continuing until1969 at serial number 122678, when a new serial range with an R prefix began.
In 1957 the Regulation Police became the Model 33 and the Terrier became the Model 32. In 1961 both switched from the .32 sized I frame to the slightly larger .38 special sized J frame. J frame guns have a -1 after the model number.
The .32 Regulation Police and .32 Hand Ejector shared a separate serial range.
Radagast
Member
squarles67:
Your Model 66-2 Combat Magnum serial number 179kxxx was manufactured in 1982.
Your Model 66-2 Combat Magnum serial number AET7xxx was manufactured between January 1984 & November 1984.
Your Model 66-2 Combat Magnum serial number 179kxxx was manufactured in 1982.
Your Model 66-2 Combat Magnum serial number AET7xxx was manufactured between January 1984 & November 1984.
squarles67
Member
The 4" was purchased new in Feb 1986 from Dave Gun shop in Nederland,TX (I didn't buy it new but I have the original box and paperwork.
The 6" was purchased new in October 1986 from Ed's Guns at a Gun Show in Beaumont, TX by me for $249.95 plus tax.
Smith and Wesson must have changed ownwership between 82 and 84, the box for the 82 pistol says "a BANGOR PUNTA Company" and the box for the 84 pistol says "A LEAR SIEGLER COMPANY"
The 6" was purchased new in October 1986 from Ed's Guns at a Gun Show in Beaumont, TX by me for $249.95 plus tax.
Smith and Wesson must have changed ownwership between 82 and 84, the box for the 82 pistol says "a BANGOR PUNTA Company" and the box for the 84 pistol says "A LEAR SIEGLER COMPANY"
Radagast
Member
squarles67:
The blue Bangor Punta marked boxes were used from 1966 to 1985. Per the standard Catalog of S&W: "A slight variation on this box seen only in the mid 80s, has "Lear Siegler Corp" replacing the Bangor Punta name. This follows the Leir Seigler take over of Bangor Punta. S&W was sold to a British company and later to an American one.
The dates I give are taken from the Standard Catalog of S&W, these are recorded shipping dates, with popular models it is pretty safe to assume that the time between manufacture and shipping will be fairly close together. With unpopular models, not so much. For example, S&W introduced the three letter serial number prefix in 1980 and had transitioned most guns to it by 1983, but still shipped large N frame revolvers with an N prefix in 1986. It may be that the frames were sitting incomplete until then.
It's quite likely that with the introduction of the Model 686 that demand for the Model 66 fell off, so frames were made ( and serial numbered) in batches , but not assembled until a distributor ordered them, hence the time period between the manufacture and sale. Or they may simply have sat on a distributors shelf for that long.
The blue Bangor Punta marked boxes were used from 1966 to 1985. Per the standard Catalog of S&W: "A slight variation on this box seen only in the mid 80s, has "Lear Siegler Corp" replacing the Bangor Punta name. This follows the Leir Seigler take over of Bangor Punta. S&W was sold to a British company and later to an American one.
The dates I give are taken from the Standard Catalog of S&W, these are recorded shipping dates, with popular models it is pretty safe to assume that the time between manufacture and shipping will be fairly close together. With unpopular models, not so much. For example, S&W introduced the three letter serial number prefix in 1980 and had transitioned most guns to it by 1983, but still shipped large N frame revolvers with an N prefix in 1986. It may be that the frames were sitting incomplete until then.
It's quite likely that with the introduction of the Model 686 that demand for the Model 66 fell off, so frames were made ( and serial numbered) in batches , but not assembled until a distributor ordered them, hence the time period between the manufacture and sale. Or they may simply have sat on a distributors shelf for that long.
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oldtrainfan
Member
- Joined
- May 24, 2010
- Messages
- 2
One more S&W DOB please
I am a newbie attempting to figure out the site.
Hopefully this is a proper way to post a question.
I have a
S&W.38SPL
serial # on butt 21xxx
barrell is 4" long
cylinder holds 6 shells
left side of barrell engraved as follows:
38 S&W SPECIAL
U.S.SERVICE CTG"S
This was my fathers gun which I received on his death.
I would appreciate any information about it.
Especially when it was made, and what ammo if any is safe to shoot.
I would like to replace its current grips with ones which were original.
, so knowing which model would be helpful as well.
Thanks in advance!
I am a newbie attempting to figure out the site.
Hopefully this is a proper way to post a question.
I have a
S&W.38SPL
serial # on butt 21xxx
barrell is 4" long
cylinder holds 6 shells
left side of barrell engraved as follows:
38 S&W SPECIAL
U.S.SERVICE CTG"S
This was my fathers gun which I received on his death.
I would appreciate any information about it.
Especially when it was made, and what ammo if any is safe to shoot.
I would like to replace its current grips with ones which were original.
, so knowing which model would be helpful as well.
Thanks in advance!
squarles67
Member
Radagast,
Thanks a bunch for the info
Stephen
ETA: If I came off as doubting your dates it wasn't intentional, I just thought the gap between manufacture and sale was interesting.
Thanks a bunch for the info
Stephen
ETA: If I came off as doubting your dates it wasn't intentional, I just thought the gap between manufacture and sale was interesting.
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Radagast
Member
squarles67:
No insult taken.
oldtrainfan:
You have a S&W .38 Military & Police 2nd Model (Model of 1902) manufactured in 1902-1903 in the serial range 20976 to 33803, so 1902 seems certain.
U.S. SERVICE CTG refers to .38 long colt, the then US service round. S&W were not going to stamp Colt on their gun! .38 S&W special is a stretched version of the long colt case, both will chamber in your gun, but .38 special will be the better round as you will have less crud build up in the chambers.
Word of warning, your gun predates both the internal hammer block safety and heat treating of cylinders, so if carried or kept loaded the chamber under the hammer should be left empty. Stick to standard pressure lead ammunition, don't use jacketed or PlusP marked ammunition.
The sights should be regulated for 158 grain round nose lead, 148 grain lead wadcutters should also hit close to point of aim.
There is a how to check out a revolver thread stickied at the top of this forum, if your gun passes the tests then it should be safe to shoot with any standard pressure lead load.
The original grips would have been checkered hard rubber with the S&W logo molded into the top or checkered walnut with an uncheckered diamond around the grip screw and a rounded top. Any modern round butt grip for the S&W K frame will fit, but the style would be incorrect. The old style grips had a rounded top and no inset medallion. See the attached pics for the correct style.
Check out Numrich Arms (gun wreckers) or www.smith-wessonforum.com (collectors forum) for replacement grips.
If your gun has adjustable sights then it potentially has considerable collectors value, if the sights are fixed, not so much.
Introduced in 1899 with the First Model, the .38 Military & Police with some design changes continues in production today as the Model 10. Several million were made, so there is no shortage of them on the used market.
No insult taken.
oldtrainfan:
You have a S&W .38 Military & Police 2nd Model (Model of 1902) manufactured in 1902-1903 in the serial range 20976 to 33803, so 1902 seems certain.
U.S. SERVICE CTG refers to .38 long colt, the then US service round. S&W were not going to stamp Colt on their gun! .38 S&W special is a stretched version of the long colt case, both will chamber in your gun, but .38 special will be the better round as you will have less crud build up in the chambers.
Word of warning, your gun predates both the internal hammer block safety and heat treating of cylinders, so if carried or kept loaded the chamber under the hammer should be left empty. Stick to standard pressure lead ammunition, don't use jacketed or PlusP marked ammunition.
The sights should be regulated for 158 grain round nose lead, 148 grain lead wadcutters should also hit close to point of aim.
There is a how to check out a revolver thread stickied at the top of this forum, if your gun passes the tests then it should be safe to shoot with any standard pressure lead load.
The original grips would have been checkered hard rubber with the S&W logo molded into the top or checkered walnut with an uncheckered diamond around the grip screw and a rounded top. Any modern round butt grip for the S&W K frame will fit, but the style would be incorrect. The old style grips had a rounded top and no inset medallion. See the attached pics for the correct style.
Check out Numrich Arms (gun wreckers) or www.smith-wessonforum.com (collectors forum) for replacement grips.
If your gun has adjustable sights then it potentially has considerable collectors value, if the sights are fixed, not so much.
Introduced in 1899 with the First Model, the .38 Military & Police with some design changes continues in production today as the Model 10. Several million were made, so there is no shortage of them on the used market.
Attachments
oldtrainfan
Member
- Joined
- May 24, 2010
- Messages
- 2
Thank You to Radagast
Radagast:
Thank You!!
I really appreciate the detail and the effort expended on my behalf!!!
The pics were a special addition.
I will certainly follow your advise regarding handling and shooting the gun.
oldtrainfan
Radagast:
Thank You!!
I really appreciate the detail and the effort expended on my behalf!!!
The pics were a special addition.
I will certainly follow your advise regarding handling and shooting the gun.
oldtrainfan
DOB S&W Mod 51
Hi, looking for any info on my Mod 51 revolver.
Ser. number is (no letter prefix) 1123xx
Mod 51
.22 MRF
3 1/2" barrel
6 shot revolver
Square butt Diamond grips
Flat latch Adjustable sights
Blue
95-98% condition
Appreciate any info including approx. value if poss.
Thank you very much, Gary
Hi, looking for any info on my Mod 51 revolver.
Ser. number is (no letter prefix) 1123xx
Mod 51
.22 MRF
3 1/2" barrel
6 shot revolver
Square butt Diamond grips
Flat latch Adjustable sights
Blue
95-98% condition
Appreciate any info including approx. value if poss.
Thank you very much, Gary
Radagast
Member
shotgun-2:
Your Model 51 was manufactured in 1965 or 1966. The standard Catalog of S&W notes serial number 108087 in 1965 and the flat latch was changed to the standard style in 1966.
The model 51 was produced from 1960 to 1974, usually on the square butt target J frame with diamond grips. 600 were manufactured with a round butt. Some guns came with an additional .22lr cylinder, which adds to the value. In 2006 the Standard Catalog of S&W gave a value of $400 in excellent condition.
Serial numbers were in the .22lr .22/32 kit gun / Model 34 sequence,so they are not as common as the high serial number might lead you to think.
I suggest you check out the auctionarms, gunbroker and gunsamerica websites to try and find current values.
Your Model 51 was manufactured in 1965 or 1966. The standard Catalog of S&W notes serial number 108087 in 1965 and the flat latch was changed to the standard style in 1966.
The model 51 was produced from 1960 to 1974, usually on the square butt target J frame with diamond grips. 600 were manufactured with a round butt. Some guns came with an additional .22lr cylinder, which adds to the value. In 2006 the Standard Catalog of S&W gave a value of $400 in excellent condition.
Serial numbers were in the .22lr .22/32 kit gun / Model 34 sequence,so they are not as common as the high serial number might lead you to think.
I suggest you check out the auctionarms, gunbroker and gunsamerica websites to try and find current values.
Radagast
Member
miss lead:
The 60-4 was introduced in 1990, a limited production target model with full underlug barrel in .38 special. It was eventually replaced by the 60-10 (.357 magnum target variant) & the 60-13 (.38 special target variant) in 1996.
The Standard Catalog of S&W notes serial numbers in the BRFxxxx range shipped in August 1994, & in the CAMxxxx range in January 1996. So late 1994 or early 1995 seems likely.
Congratulations on your purchase. The three inch J frame is a great gun, the extra inch of barrel improves the practical accuracy, without making it hard to conceal in a decent holster. I'm in Australia, these were the issue weapon of a couple of aussie State police forces for many years, and are still issued by Brinks to their guards.
The 60-4 was introduced in 1990, a limited production target model with full underlug barrel in .38 special. It was eventually replaced by the 60-10 (.357 magnum target variant) & the 60-13 (.38 special target variant) in 1996.
The Standard Catalog of S&W notes serial numbers in the BRFxxxx range shipped in August 1994, & in the CAMxxxx range in January 1996. So late 1994 or early 1995 seems likely.
Congratulations on your purchase. The three inch J frame is a great gun, the extra inch of barrel improves the practical accuracy, without making it hard to conceal in a decent holster. I'm in Australia, these were the issue weapon of a couple of aussie State police forces for many years, and are still issued by Brinks to their guards.
larryshepard
Member
- Joined
- May 24, 2010
- Messages
- 2
Brian
I have a 1 &7/8,J frame, round butt, 38 sp,5-shoot,square latch,serial # 100XXX.Could what is safe to use as personel protection,age of gun,some history.
I have a 1 &7/8,J frame, round butt, 38 sp,5-shoot,square latch,serial # 100XXX.Could what is safe to use as personel protection,age of gun,some history.
