IDF: Death of U.S. activist in Gaza was 'regrettable accident'

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Ray van der L said:

"Newtons Laws of Momentum show that 100 to 200 pound Human does not provide an equal or opposite force to stop 20000 pound or more Bulldozer. "

So next time, International Solidarity fans, try it in groups of six.:neener:
 
clem:
I'll never forget the pictures of "the poor Palestinians" dancing in the streets as the WTC towers burned and fell.

The hell with them and curses on anyone who supports them.
There are some Americans who thought that we "deserved it" too. Are you going to condemn all Americans for that too?
The good thing about her death is that it's one less traitor that has to go to trial.
Quite frankly, I think that she was stupid in so many different ways. I already stated that I neither mourn nor celebrate her death, but merely shrug with incomprehension.

But she was no traitor to the United States - certainly not in the strict sense of that word, as we are not at war with the Palestinian people.

CMichael:
The people who victimize the Palestinian people are the Palestinian government.

Some time ago Israel offered to put the arabs in the west bank and gaze in apartments rather than having them in refugee camps. The leadership wouldn't let that happen.
I am right there with you as far as the victimization of the Palestinians by their own leadership is concerned.

But let's not ignore the fact that many ordinary Palestinians have been victims of Israeli settlement policies driven by the Jewish fundamentalist segment of the Israeli government that has sought to, and even now seeks to, ethnic-cleanse the Occupied Territories for some sort of a notion of Jewish messianic prophesy.

Independent of the evilness of the Arafat dictatorship (which, thankfully, seems to be crumbling), the Israeli occupation authorities have not exactly been "benevolent" to ordinary Palestinians (I still remember the days when the Israeli government taxed the Palestinians as if the latter were Israeli citizens, yet offered them no civil rights of any kind, not to mention diverting the vast majority of the natural resources of the land to a comparatively few Israeli settlers).

Now, have the Israelis been as bad as the Syrians, Iraqis or Iranians? Heck no! Not even close! But that does not mean they did not use, quite frankly, extremely dubious methods of "population control" for an equally dubious purpose (religious colonial settlement to displace existing population by force). To claim "we are not as bad as the Nazis" (or Syrians or Iranians or whatever) is not much of a defense for comitting evil deeds. "Less evil" is still often "evil enough."

For the record, I support Israel as an ally of the US over any other Middle East country and genuinely wish for the success of the Israeli "experiment." However, for both moral AND practical reasons, I hope that the Israelis EVENTUALLY withdraw from the Occupied Territories.

But that requires more than Israeli sacrifice and generosity - it requires Palestinian sacrifice and generosity, which, unfortunately, has not been forthcoming, particularly at the "leadership" level... It's a difficult situation. Though I have my favorite side in the conflict, it has been waged in the rules of tribal warfare rather than 21st Century American rules of warfare, with the attendant bitterness, sorrow and thirst for revenge on both sides.
 
Ok, I think there is a problem with the general concept of peace shield.

If she believed what she was doing was really worth dying for, good for her. She stood up to the cause and died for it.

That said, there are times I'm crossing the street, I have the right of way... a speeding car comes around... I can stand there and decide, "hmm... I have the right of way" or I can get out of the way and not get run over.

If my convictions about being right was so strong, ok... Maybe I'll stand there.... But I doubt it.

I think the problem I have with these "peace folks" is they seem to send the message that bombing buildings and plazas filled with crowded people is ok, but bulldozing empty houses is not.

I don't think I can really respect people who take this view. I have sympathy for her family... but hey... If you raised your daughter to be that way...
 
Depends on where you're crossing the road in my part of the world. In a pedestrian crosswalk, you have the right of way if you're crossing with the lights or if there is no light. Any other place, you're jaywalking, friend, and you DO NOT have the right of way.
 
The key to this whole thing...

Common sense.

That's right, common sense is what is needed in order for these "peace activists" to understand their actions. If we could figure out a way to put common sense into liquid form and inject them with it we could solve these problems.

Could you imagine a "peace activist" in Iraq running around denouncing the US, burning flags chanting drivel at the top of their lungs getting hit with a common sense tranquilizer dart? I think it would go something like this:

"What do we want? PEACE! When do we want it? NOW! We want (thwack)...um...peace. Where in the hell am I? DOH!...Ticket please!"

If these folks had any common sense they would not be there in the first place. But then if they had any common sense they wouldn't be "peace activists" either ;)

Take care,

DRC
 
It makes no difference how fast the machine was going if the operator couldn't see her, which I am sure he didn't. Kids that play on construction sites get run over in just that manner. So do employees of strip mines and other sites who don't watch where they're going.

And she WAS a traitor. I saw photos of her burning American flags with Palestinians. Or is buring the American flag now a rite of good citizenship that I am not aware of?:rolleyes:
 
Point was it was probably going in first or second gear at like 2-4 mph. Pretty sure she coulda moved.
 
Greeners are a notorious PITA around here- always getting up some stupid far left protests in a way that inconveniences people who work for a living as much as possible. There have been movements in the Legislature to close the place, but they never go anywhere. That nut who killed the police officer in California (Red Bluff, IIRC) as a political protest was a Greener too. Couple years ago they voted for Mumia Abu-Jamal, who is on Death Row for the murder of a cop in Pennsylvania, as the guest of honor at commencement. Basically a far left refuge from reality.

Having said that, the place does have an excellent academic reputation in the US News ratings and I have known some outstanding people who went there.

I've long been a supporter of Israel, but I am disgusted at their approach to dealing with the Palestinians. Right now there are about 4 dead Palestinians for every dead Israeli, most (on both sides) noncombatants. I can't see the moral difference between a 6 year old Palestinian kid machine gunned from an Israeli tank and a 6 year old Israeli kid blown up by a bomb. Both are atrocities. I keep thinking about that famous line after the Sand Creek massacre of Indian women and children: "nits make lice". I see Rachel Corrie's death as another example of the Israeli's tendency to blow right through anything or anyone they don't like, just like their habit of putting down demonstrations with machine gun fire.
 
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And she WAS a traitor. I saw photos of her burning American flags with Palestinians. Or is buring the American flag now a rite of good citizenship that I am not aware of?
I don't know if this confused, dead lassie burned the American flag or not.

While I consider improper burning of the American flag to be morally egregious, it is not treason, which has a very specific legal-constitutional context.

You offer an interesting dichotomy, however. Either a behavior is treasonous or a rite of good citizenship?
I can't see the moral difference between a 6 year old Palestinian kid machine gunned from an Israeli tank and a 6 year old Israeli kid blown up by a bomb.
There may not be a practical difference (death is a death), but there is a significant moral difference between an unintentional "collateral" death and a death by an intentional suicide attack.
I see Rachel Corrie's death as another example of the Israeli's tendency to blow right through anything or anyone they don't like...
And there is a definite difference between courting death and being blown up while buying a pizza for lunch, minding one's business.
Regrettable? Accident?

Suicide by bulldozer.
An UNINTENTIONAL suicide, if there is such a thing. More likely suicide by stupidity.
 
p35.

Have you ever seen the Palestinian children using slings to "throw rocks" at the Israeli soldiers? I'm no expert with a sling but I've penetrated a quarter inch of plywood using a rock the size of hen's egg with one.


Ok, here's the scenario. A group of adolescents are "throwing rocks" at you. Exactly how many rocks will literally penetrate your body before you shoot?

I support folks right to protest. I also support my right to drive down the highway. To prevent our rights from colliding, I would suggest that they not protest in the highway.

The young lady chose the wrong place and time to display the foolishness of youth.
 
An UNINTENTIONAL suicide, if there is such a thing.
She intentionally didn't get out of the way of something moving at way less than 1 mph that would surely kill her if she didn't move. It's not as though she was scrambling to get out of the way at the last second.
 
I don't know if this confused, dead lassie burned the American flag or not.
Well, she did, and there's a link to a photo somewhere here showing her doing it. You are right that flag burning, though vile, is not treason. If you look at the photo though, you can see the hateful expression she has as she's burning it. Her cause was driven by hate, and thus, outside of the stupidity factor of her not understanding how dozers work, I cannot feel sorry for what happened to her.
 
It's not as though she was scrambling to get out of the way at the last second.
Maybe she did when she saw death coming for her. Either way, I stand by my statement that it might be "suicide by stupidity."
Well, she did, and there's a link to a photo somewhere here showing her doing it. You are right that flag burning, though vile, is not treason.
We are in full agreement there.
I cannot feel sorry for what happened to her.
Why would you?
 
Misguided...

Honestly, her death struck me as a tragedy at first. She reminded me of more than a few of my close friends growing up and going through college. Some of them were decent yet often misguided people who lacked common sense.

Now my patience for such people is gone and I don't tolerate it any longer. I see spoiled people such as this girl, and the the Taliban boy from CA, and it makes me sick. Ignorance breeds ignorance, intolerance breeds intolerance.

Now it is more of a relief than a tragedy. She was young, and had her whole life ahead of her. Doing what I wonder? Breeding more ignorant anti-American peace protestors? Becoming a terrorist agent within the borders of the US? We all suspect Arab men between the ages of 18 and 35, but who would ever suspect a pretty young blonde American girl?

These people take advantage of a system that allowed them to grow and live safely without fear. And to learn, think, and speak as they choose to. They take that gift, that FREEDOM... And use it against the very nation that provided it for them. Traitor is too weak of a title for the likes of people such as these. More like an ungrateful little rat dog who takes the food, water, and shelter, provided by a nice old man all the while crapping is his yard and trying to bite him every chance it gets...

Too bad she didn't fall under the tracks or have the blade dropped down on her with conviction. They would've had to use a hose and a strainer to send her remains back to her family...
 
We all suspect Arab men between the ages of 18 and 35, but who would ever suspect a pretty young blonde American girl?
I do, and I always have. I attended an Ivy League university - supposedly for the intellectually gifted youth - for my undergraduate education (as a foreign student). One thing I learned there was that many of my "peers" had NO clue about the world outside their little comfortable American suburban utopia (unlike the previous generations that had experiences of depression and war). They were so naively guilty about their prosperity that they were convinced that their country was - somehow - robbing from the downtrodden of the world.

Hence, they were going to fight their own country to save the oppressed of the world. Many were into "revolutions" as a romance without realizing the real world consequences of most of these so-called revolutions around the world (unlike me who learned it the hard way by having half the family murdered, first by the Axis Powers, then by the Communist "liberators").

Now that I am older, it scares me to know that these people have become attorneys, physicians, investment bankers, management consultants, corporate leaders, politicians, artists, actors and other high profile people in the society.

Islamic terrorists are certainly a threat to us. But I have always thought that the persistent elitism-by-self-loathing on the part of a considerable portion of our population is going to be our national suicide one day.

For the record, my wife is a brunette (and she is a strict Constitutionalist too)! :)
 
I went to a regular state school for college and got a BS in engineering. Strange... There weren't any of those "self loathing" individuals in my class. We, as engineers, still felt elite compared to the rest of the monkeys but I think it was because we had better things to do with our time and knew it. We didn't have the privelege or time to take basket weaving and tennis for 4 years. We were there for a reason, to be able to do something with our lives.

Regardless, I don't think its simply a side effect of being young or being in college. I knew plenty of people who became everything from artists to brain surgeons and everything in between. I think its more a side effect of one's upbringing. It seems to me that the kids who had everything handed to them tended to become hippies trying to save the world. The rest of us are too busy working to make money to pay taxes so we can all be free...
 
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