Idiotic News Story - what would you do?

[slide]

The way I look at it Treo, is that these hairy chested manly men making loud noises about shoving Glocks here and there are those who will not intervene. So while I agree with you, I think the point is moot.

 

[KelVarnson]

What if some good guy intervened, but had a heart attack in the process? After all, this would be a highly stressful encounter for most average citizens not used to this kind of thing.

People shouldn't play around with this sort of thing. Not everyone handles stress the same way.

 

[Jslap]

My thoughts as well. And Jslap, please don't feel like we are gangin' up on your or anything - we're just trying to provide solid guidance that, hopefully, you will never have to use.

I understand, and point well taken. I am not thin-skinned at all - and can take some constructive criticism.

Thanks to all who have commented - even the ones with the "Glock up your butt" comment. I understand and am not offended.

Thank you also for the comments about future "investigation" into THR postings potentially in the future, etc. I certainly don't want to come off as a gun-toting vigilante who's looking for a fight, or at least a chance to brandish some metal.

My OP was my STRONG negative reaction to the (in my opinion) HIGHLY irresponsible and idiotic behavior of a local news crew. Again, perhaps my whole "draw down" comments were unnecessary, and themselves idiotic. The fact is, however, I think most on these boards are like-minded enough that folks would have intervened.

Thanks for those who've responded.

 

[mljdeckard]

There is a VERY short list of third parties for whom I would use deadly force. I have family members on that list. If you don't absolutely know what's going on, and you start killing people, you are going to jail. I would be on my phone to the police, depending on the situation, I might remain in hiding with the weapon out to see what happened, But I would NOT jump in and start killing people.

What I don't necessarily agree with is that stuff people post in here could be used against them in court. What people post anonymously in an internet forum holds no reasonable expectation of honesty. And just because a comment is posted under someone's screen name, you can't prove that any one person is responsible for ALL posts made under that screen name, making impossible to know that the person accused is responsible for the comment. I cannot imagine what circumstances would allow anything from this forum to be admitted in court. That's not even law school, it's junior college Rules of Evidence class.

 

[Just Jim]

It's really nice to know that if one of your family members ie wife or daughter, is being killed that there are people out there that care. They may not do anthing so they can save their gun collection but they really do care.

jj

 

[meef]

:banghead:

 

[Treo]

They may not do anthing so they can save their gun collection but they really do care.

With all the big, burly internet tough guys running around you'd think somebody would have stepped in and beat that hired actor ( reading comprehension is our friend) to a fare thee well.

Of course they'd go to jail over it but hey, they proved their manliness.

Now on a serious tick, did I offend you in a past life just jim? I stated 3 times in my first two posts that if deadly force was called for (don't think it was in this case) I would have used it. However, you seem to be deliberately ignoring that fact I'm curious as to why?

If you really want to know what I'd do in a real world situation I can think of a dozen options to use before the gun.

Just as an example I generally have a liter of ice water W/me, think that might have got our bad guy's attention W/out actually injuring anyone?

 

[Deanimator]

I'd do what I did with my upstairs neighbor who kept beating the crap out of his girlfriend. I'd just keep calling the cops, over and over and over. Of course I figured that he might come downstairs and want to beat the crap out of me. That would have just ended with a gunshot and his body hitting the floor.

Getting DIRECTLY involved in a domestic is dangerous. I don't get paid for that kind of thing. If it was obvious that it was an attack by a stranger, I'd get involved. For a domestic, I'd just call the cops. I don't want to end up fighting TWO people, one of whom I was trying to help. Some women are just stupid, and getting myself hurt or arrested isn't going to change that.

 

[mljdeckard]

Tease, scoff, do whatever, I don't care. The reason I carry is to protect myself and my loved ones from harm. If I jump into a situation I don't fully understand, kill the wrong person, get killed, prosecuted, sued, or a combination of the three, how does THAT help my family?

Someone else related the story of when Patton nearly intervened in what he thought was a kidnapping, which turned out to be a very different situation. The guy who taught my CCW class told a story, (I have no idea how true it is,) about a permit holder who was leaving a bar and saw a guy having a disagreement with his girlfriend down the block. the fight escalated, and the man pushed the girl back into an alley, where she was yelling. He went down to look, and up the alley, he saw the man on top of the girl with his pants down. He pulled out his gun and took off the top of his head. The girl popped up and yelled; "What the #$^& are you doing?! We were playing a sex game, playing out a fantasy, why did you kill him?!" That's manslaughter.

True? Don't care. It illustrates that if you don't REALLY, REALLY know what's going on, and you jump in and start killing people, you may well get into trouble. That civil case would have legs even if the criminal one didn't.

The list of people I would use deadly force for is short, because they're the only one I really trust. I trust them with the lives of my family. They are the people who I would rather defend them incorrectly and be wrong and go to jail than doubt them. They would do the same for me, and it has been discussed in advance. Some of them go back before kindergarten. Strangers don't get the same level of trust.

I have a sister who......hasn't figured life out yet. She's always dating bad guys, and just barely staying out of trouble. If she called me up in the middle of the night, and told me she needed my help, right now, and to bring my gun, I can absolutely guarantee. I will not be going anywhere that the police don't go first.

 

[Just Jim]

Like I said, nothing personal. It is important that we all know where others stand should push come to shove. Enough said.

jj

 

[CRITGIT]

A word of caution, I used to see this posted frequently on THR lately, not so much. In the event that you are ever involved in a shooting incident you can expect to be investigated to some degree. If this happens the last thing you want is for the D.A. to find all of your THR posts detailing how you’re going to use your “fists of fury” to detain the bad guy or shove your GLOCK up his butt and make him whistle “ Dixie”. You just may find such posts entered into evidence against you and used to prove that you are nothing more than a vigilante who jumped at the first opportunity to use your ninja gunfighting skills. Especially if (as posited by the O.P.) the incident turns out to be some sociology experiment put on by your local news team

Investigated to a huge degree!
Be assured he'd find your posts. Some might not fair well under those circumstances.

CRITGIT

 

[Flyboy]

Does anybody recall the case in which a man heard his wife yell "rape" while in a truck with another man, and shot the man? It later turned out she was having an affair with him, and yelling "rape" was her attempt to cover her tracks.

He was acquitted, and she went on to face charges in his death.

I can see a parallel situation here for the news agency. If you put somebody in the position of reasonably believing that he is acting to preserve the life of an innocent, you may find out that he's willing to take strong action. And since you created the situation, you bear at least some responsibility for the outcome.

 

[Kind of Blued]

I DID NOT write a letter to the editor - just merely replied to the internet story on the news website linked above. Perhaps I could have been "nicer", or "more pleasant", but the sheer idiocy of the news report took me for a ride.

For your sake, and for every gun-owner, just be aware of how you carry yourself and how non-gun owners can interpret your actions and words. This is what Treo was saying, and we're all on your side, but we're just giving some friendly advice.

If you spend enough time around here reading articles, you will find that some (anti-gun) folks love to take the most innocent statement and make you look like a blood-thirsty vigilante simply because you own a gun and are willing to use it.

This does nothing but hurt our cause, and makes more and more voting Americans make up a reason to get our guns and our rights taken away from us. We want to do everything we can to avoid that. Some of it is passive, some is active. They see the gun as a problem, when in reality, if used properly, it can be a solution. Just don't give them a reason to see it as a problem.

 

[doc2rn]

Here in Ks they have a portion of the CCW law that defines your responsibility to render aide in the rescue of someone else.
You could easily be sued for doing nothing, but protected by drawing. You will definately be sued for each projectile launched from your weapon.

 

[Ash]

This act is not covered under freedom of speach in that it is falsely crying fire in a crowded theater. In this case, falsely telling the public that an attack is occuring. Where I to smack the actor with a 2x4 and discovered it was a ruse only to find myself facing a suit, I would go after the news organization. The actor, by the way, would also be suing the news organization as well (or his family if he were shot) because responsibility would be on the news organization for setting up the operation and so endangering the actor, his victim, as well as the personal well-being of any person who attempts to protect the victim.

Ash

 

[mljdeckard]

In Utah this is certainly not the case. When defending a third party, you have all of their rights, and also ALL OF THEIR LIABILITIES.

And the expectation of a reasonable person to render aid with deadly force cannot be applied the same way as say, rendering aid to an accident victim. When you carry, you can CHOOSE whether or not to shoot in any given situation. You are not taking on any obligation any other person doesn't have. Are you SURE that the law REQUIRES action for a third party, or just protects you?

 

[JimmerJammerMrK]

Assume a position of cover and use your cell phone(1) to call the local police providing them with your name, location, and nature of the disturbance and COMPREHENSIVE descriptions of ALL parties involved. (most importantly YOU & the fact that you're armed.)(2)

THEN you might decide to call out for the 'perp' (in this case the guy?(3) to immediately desist because the police were on the phone & on the way.

Quoted for truth.

 

[qajaq59]

The first thing you do is call 911. Then if you must use force you'd better be darned sure you are right. Killing someone is serious business and it shouldn't even be thought of until every other option has come and gone. My .02

 

[Kragax]

Having had to deal with a situation like this I have a story.
I was driving through the downtown area of our town, not a great area but not too bad either, as I came around a curve I saw this guy slapping a woman around on the sidewalk. Now my upbringing came into play, I stopped the car and got out and went over to break it up. Im not a real big guy but Im not small either so I got him off pretty quick. Then Holy S%&T Batman!!!!!, They both turned on me, punching, swearing, sratching. I got loose and got to the car and split. I was carrying at the time but never even thought of drawing, It wasn't near a life or death situation, but I did learn that everything is not as it seems at times. Now this was way back before cell phones and my methods would be different now than then, but I hope I would still have the stones to help a lady in distress.

 

[MachIVshooter]

He might even play along and hook the actor up to an AED and tell everybody he was about to shock him, just to watch the actor come off the ground like a monkey with his butt on fire.

Now that'd be funny!

 

[stevemis]

There is no win here. The newspaper set out to make a story, and gosh darn it, they'll have one regardless... even if the story is there is no story.

If someone drew a firearm, a bunch of people would have yelled they are just actors. The good citizen would have his picture and name in the paper and would quickly be ridiculed as a gun nut with an itchy trigger finger and this incident would be used as a reason to take guns from law-abiding citizens.

I'm not sure what they would have done to someone calling the police, but it might have something to do with all of those "horrible deadly greenhouse gases" that got released by the subsequent police vehicular response and excessive breathing.

Similarly to guns, had someone drawn a knife, there'd be new "ammunition" to take your steak knives AND your guns.

You saw what they did when nobody came to the rescue, so I don't need to explain that one.

 

[mbt2001]

Honestly, we have been told by the police, the media and everyone in between to leave people alone, just keep walking, nothing you can do about it for YEARS now.

Further to that, with all of the gadgets, I don't think that many people hear or see what is happening in their environment...

 

[lonegunman]

To bad none of those handy dandy open carry Rangers were there to save the day.

If you ask most LEO's they will tell you a simple truth. In a suprising number of "domestic violence" incidents the victim will turn against you when you try and arrest the aggressor. OR the victim won't want to press charges. OR the victim will gladly run to the car and drive away with the 300 pound thug after he pounds you into the ground like a tent peg. Was this woman actually screaming for help or were they having a drama for all to see?


This news story revealed a simple truth. 99% of the time is it better to let the riff-raff do whatever the hell they are doing and call the police. If you pulled your trusty gat on a unarmed man in a city park, even if he was kicking the crap out of a random woman, YOU would be getting carted off to jail. That goofy woman would more than likely tell the police you started the whole thing. How do you know this was not that couple's version of foreplay? This day and age, it could be anything.


Having a concealed weapon gives you an additional tool for defending yourself, your family and those closest to you. It does not give you the right to defend strangers, to enforce laws or to engage criminals that are not impacting you in a direct way. Other than engaging a mall shooter or something of that sort where the criminal had a deadly weweapon and was using it in plain view, I'd personally just call 911 and let the cops do their job.


Ask yourself this question before you get all worked up.

How many times have the same idiotic reporters ran a story about a FAKE woman in distress who has cohorts hiding nearby to rob, rape and kill a good samaritan?

How many times have the same news idiots ran a story of a woman who offered help to a stranger in a parking lot being dragged off and raped or killed?

How many stories a year do you read about a guy getting stabbed in the Wal-Mart parking lot trying to break up a fight between some hoochie and her love interest/pimp/husband/whatever?

How many times do the newcasters report a story and call the "hero" a vigilante and then destroy him on the air, report his address or do something to aid the criminals in finding him for later.

When all is said and done, no matter what you do to help and no matter how effective it is to do it. The local police spokesman will tell reporters "they prefer you stand and watch, call 911 or simply keep walking and let the popo handle the problem."

 

[gmofftarki]

I was driving through the downtown area of our town, not a great area but not too bad either, as I came around a curve I saw this guy slapping a woman around on the sidewalk. Now my upbringing came into play, I stopped the car and got out and went over to break it up. Im not a real big guy but Im not small either so I got him off pretty quick. Then Holy S%&T Batman!!!!!, They both turned on me, punching, swearing, sratching. I got loose and got to the car and split. I was carrying at the time but never even thought of drawing, It wasn't near a life or death situation, but I did learn that everything is not as it seems at times. Now this was way back before cell phones and my methods would be different now than then, but I hope I would still have the stones to help a lady in distress.

That whole "punching, kicking, scratching" thing kinda bothers me... it strikes me as being exactly the occasion that someone would discover you were carrying concealed and use that to their own advantage (depending on how you were carrying the firearm, obviously ankle is different than shoulder or IWB)...

I'm really not sure what I would have done in the situation here other than call the police, either... maybe shout from 10-15ft away, but definitely not draw unless it was warranted.

Then again, in Konnektikut, I imagine even shouting "I have a gun, cease and desist" in public would be grounds to be arrested for "Breach of Peace" and have your CCW taken.

 

[RKBABob]

*** I can't see the video at work! ***
(So I'm just going by everyone's description.

If you ask most LEO's they will tell you a simple truth. In a suprising number of "domestic violence" incidents the victim will turn against you when you try and arrest the aggressor. OR the victim won't want to press charges. OR the victim will gladly run to the car and drive away with the 300 pound thug after he pounds you into the ground like a tent peg.

Its common knowledge that some women are mentally ill, and would gladly see you thrown in jail for daring to interrupt their loving huband's romantic public beatings.

At my work, a woman complained of her boyfriend being controlling, stalking her, and being prone to violence... so what does she do? She sells her own house, gives him the money, and moves in! She then starts complaining to all her female co workers about how the boyfriend was in the mafia, won't let her leave the house, and is jealous of anyone she talks to (including other females). Other women in the office decided to 'get involved' and help her out (while I, being the only guy in the office, stayed as far away as possible)... she then tells the violence-prone mobster boyfriend that the mean ladies in the office were jealous, and "trying to break them up!"

If I ever saw this former co worker being beaten by her boyfriend, calling 911 is the most help I'd offer. Some people DON'T WANT HELP! This is why police officers absolutely dread domestic violence calls... and likely why most people don't want to be involved.



Now, if the news had staged a 300 pound man attacking a 4 year old, I'd bet everyone would get involved pretty darn quick! Likewise, if they had staged a masked man (obviously not her boyfriend) jumping out of the woods at passing women, there would be a much greater response to that.