IDPA match questions/EDC Options

[tarosean]

Then there's a small group of folks who will show up with the latest, greatest game winning 5" tactical auto, the perfect slick holster, a custom vest with the hems starched for stiffness, this season's latest colors of Salomon trail tuning shoes which are guaranteed to take five seconds of even a Grand Master's score, Rudy Project glasses, dry hands grip goo, and a poly jersey with their name and sponsors' logos all over it. You'll know if you fall into that group. [Billy Crystal]It is better to LOOK good than to SHOOT good...[/Billy Crystal]

oh wait a second,,,,

I do use a form of dry hand gooo... in the middle of summer, in gulf coast TX..




Seriously OP.. Treat it as a game. However, the subconscious skills acquired are worth it..

 

[9mmepiphany]

why as an RO you want to be beside, not behind.

I've never figured that out either. You can't see the trigger finger at all from behind

 

[Hangingrock]

Seriously OP.. Treat it as a game. However, the subconscious skills acquired are worth it..

Thank you for your reply. #16 Reply ( Frist I don't view IDPA as (Training and I don't Game it either) But I have encountered individuals that do. I asked a set of questions to induce responses thus discussion and also later on referenced and article by Richard Nance in G&A Handguns Feb/March 2017 issue.)

 

[benEzra]

I can't speak to IDPA, but I have shot quite a few USPSA matches with my EDC (S&W 3913LS) and it was both a lot of fun and a learning experience. No, you won't keep up with the people running full-sized pistols, but they're usually in a separate division anyway.

 

[browningguy]

Well to start with, I don't know Richard Nance, I don't know how many gunfights he has been in (and won), and I almost never read G&A.

No, I don't shoot IDPA with the guns I normally carry, because I wouldn't be competitive, and I like to be competitive. I have a pair of Witness Elite Match pistols and a pair of Springfield XDM 5.25's, that's what I shoot in matches. I usually (80-90% of the time) carry either a Walther PPS or a S&W Bodyguard, both very poorly suited to competition. I very occasionally will carry one of my BHP's, or a 1911, but that's usually only for barbeques.

I really don't understand why this subject keeps being brought up? Every single person I know, without exception, knows the difference between competition and training. As already mentioned IDPA does give you a good inexpensive way to practice your gun handling skills, but it's mainly about the competition.

 

[Chuck R.]

I think the beauty of IDPA is that to an extent it is "what you make of it".

As long as you're within the rules, you can wear your standard IWB holster with your normal carry pistol, you can shoot the COF as fast or as slow as you'd like, you can shoot the targets as many times as you'd like within the 31 rounds per stage. One of the guys I shoot with literally makes up his own CoF within the stated CoF; he'll do whatever TAC loads he wants, treat most targets as failure to stop drills and will often do a non-standard response on any target he feels needs it. When it comes to cover, he'll slice the pie as if it was for real and take all the time he feels he needs.

He uses it as practice, and there's zero issues with the way he chooses to shoot.

The only issues I ever see are folks trying to place their values/judgement on other folks, hence you get he "tactical" guys VS. the "gamers". It seems like everything else where guys just can't seem to watch their own lanes so to speak. For a lot of guys IDPA is about as close to realistic practice as they're going to get due to square range limitations. I'm betting most of the competitive guys started out for the same reasons, then just moved beyond the basics.

At any rate, it's way more fun than either watching TV or posting about shooting/guns on some forum.

Chuck

 

[Jim Watson]

Yes, but...
If you want to practice your tactics on my bay, let me know in advance and I will accommodate you as long as you are safe. Scoring will still be by rule and policy but you are not out to win, right?
But do not surprise me by coming in and exhibiting your gunfighting expertise to "take the procedural." I will look for an opportunity to disqualify you.

 

[Chuck R.]

Yes, but...
If you want to practice your tactics on my bay, let me know in advance and I will accommodate you as long as you are safe. Scoring will still be by rule and policy but you are not out to win, right?
But do not surprise me by coming in and exhibiting your gunfighting expertise to "take the procedural." I will look for an opportunity to disqualify you.

The rules are what they are, and the stages are shot within the limits, but the bolded statement????

I don't know IF that's in the spirit of the game, and maybe why some shooters are turned off.

Chuck

 

[Jim Watson]

Anybody comes in to intentionally break the rules without notice, I WANT to turn him off.

All he has to do is tell me he is going to shoot in accordance with his combat training which differs from match procedure by A, B, and C. As long as A, B, and C are within match and range safety requirements, and I know which way he is going to move, that is OK.
If he tells me how safe Sul is or that he must stay loaded at all times (NOT hypotheticals.) it will be "Well, bye, now."

 

[9mmepiphany]

If he tells me how safe Sul is

I've DQ'd a couple of folks for that. Even scarier is someone going Charlie's Angles and spinning around after peeking into a room

 

[Chuck R.]

Anybody comes in to intentionally break the rules without notice, I WANT to turn him off.

All he has to do is tell me he is going to shoot in accordance with his combat training which differs from match procedure by A, B, and C. As long as A, B, and C are within match and range safety requirements, and I know which way he is going to move, that is OK.
If he tells me how safe Sul is or that he must stay loaded at all times (NOT hypotheticals.) it will be "Well, bye, now."

Jim,

I think you read more into my post than was there, everything this shooter does is within the rules, and range safety, he's an SO and is a member of the club board. He just doesn't worry about scores.

Agree with the rest, although I am a fan of the SUL ready position, it's just not used in IDPA Matches.

Chuck

 

[9mmepiphany]

I am a fan of the SUL ready position

Just to avoid confusion, my understanding is that the SUL position wasn't meant as a Ready Position. It was meant as a movement position when moving through crowds

 

[Rick McC.]

IDPA match questions

Out of curiosity if your EDC (everyday carry) is as an example a 9mm S&W Shield or equivalent size/caliber/capacity pistol or an example S&W J-frame or equivalent size revolver is that the weapon you utilize at an IDPA match?

Also do you carry it in the same manner as you would every day in regards to let’s say pocket carry and or holster type and position?

Is your clothing the same as you would normally wear or do you alter your wearing attire for the competitive aspect of the match?

Is the ammunition type employed in the match the same as you employ in the EDC (Self Defense) application?

Yes. I use the same pistols and holsters, carried in the same locations, as my daily carry "stuff."

My reloads (both 9mm and .45acp) are loaded to have the same recoil, and same POA=POI as my carry ammo.

 

[ATLDave]

Some IDPA and USPSA clubs run "carry matches," with varying degrees of commitment. 1-2 times per year, my USPSA club will run a "carry night." We don't change the rules, and people can still shoot their usual gamer gear, but the stages are designed so that shooting a smaller gun with a more limited capacity and shorter sight radius isn't as crippling a disadvantage as it would normally be. Lots of people get "in the spirit" of the match and run something closely approximating their carry rig. If you ask around, you may find one or more clubs/matches around you that does something similar on a periodic basis.

 

[ny32182]

It is very simple really... gun games are meant to develop and test shooting skills (well... IDPA is identity-confused, but it too is a gun game). If you embrace the competitive aspect, you can develop your shooting skills to a level you never likely could otherwise.

Then you can take those skills back and apply them to whatever your definition of "tactical training" is.

No offense to anyone in the thread, but 99% of the time, guys who are "using my carry gear so I'm not worried about the score" are guys who are looking for a good reason to not improve/looking for an excuse to get smoked/etc. Keep in mind that the best guys at the competition don't need their racer gear to beat most of the other people there; they only need it to beat guys like themselves. If everyone at the competition had exactly the same gear, the results would likely barely change at all. Most realize this pretty quickly and either embrace the competitive aspect via dedicated gear (and hopefully lots of practice), or they stop competition and go do their tactical training all the time.

In short, if you can use the competition to make yourself drive your technical shooting skills higher, those skills will still be there when you go do something else.

 

[Sam1911]

Some IDPA and USPSA clubs run "carry matches,"

Yeah, that's a good idea, and we do something like that from time to time.

There is a club not to far from here that got a bit of a reputation for holding so tight to the fundamental principles of IDPA as a defensive tactics, real-world-self-defense-scenario-based operation that you might show up and shoot a match that consisted entirely of one- or three- or five-shot stages, because that's often the way self defense shootings go.

That tends to annoy people after a while though. As somebody said, if I drive an hour and spend the money, and stand around for an hour or two through a whole match, I don't want to come home after shooting less than half a box of ammo.

 

[ATLDave]

That tends to annoy people after a while though. As somebody said, if I drive an hour and spend the money, and stand around for an hour or two through a whole match, I don't want to come home after shooting less than half a box of ammo.

Indeed. That's why our weekly match does this 1-2 times per year. (Most recently, we restricted the stages to 12 shots, with no more than 6 shots per position and max of one reload needed). As a change of pace, it's kind of fun, and gives you a chance to see how much of a handicap your carry gear really is versus your gamer gear, and to make sure it all still works. But it would be a lame match on a weekly or even monthly basis.

 

[Sam1911]

Heh, it comes back to the eternal debate: Well, look how impractical USPSA is! You might show up and shoot over 200 rounds! In IDPA we're much more realistic. You probably only have to shoot 120 rounds. LOL.

 

[ATLDave]

Yes, IDPA is much more practical, in that real life gunfights are pre-choreographed with engagement orders explained to you in advance. ;P

 

[Chuck R.]

Just to avoid confusion, my understanding is that the SUL position wasn't meant as a Ready Position. It was meant as a movement position when moving through crowds

Agreed, my understanding is in started as a movement "technique" in crowds, but here in the states, but the majority of times I heard it described and been taught it was used as a type of ready position....

Chuck

 

[9mmepiphany]

here in the states, but the majority of times I heard it described and been taught it was used as a type of ready position....

I know.

I cringe every time it is taught as that...and the instructor doesn't even understand the origins or the deficiencies of the technique when used as a ready position

 

[Jim Watson]

I thought it was for the safety of your "stick" when you and the other operators were invading a suspect's home.

 

[ddc]

Getting back to the "OWB vs IWB" issue... With respect to the club's decision to not allow IWB: I get where they are coming from. None of the clubs I frequent disallow IWB holsters but I will admit whenever a shooter I am not familiar with is drawing or re-holstering a severely FBI canted IWB holster positioned at about 3:00 to 4:30, as many are, I find myself unconsciously clenching my buttcheeks for a moment until they have successfully completed the task.

 

[Chuck R.]

I know.

I cringe every time it is taught as that...and the instructor doesn't even understand the origins or the deficiencies of the technique when used as a ready position

I look at it like every other "ready position" in that they're situation dependent......the muzzle is going to be pointing "somewhere". I don't think I've seen or been taught one yet that worked in every situation.

Chuck