If I'm worried about 9mm over-penatration...

[whatever]

should I go with 115gr or 124gr?

Assuming the same bullet manufacturer (i.e. speer gold dots) who offer both 115gr and 124gr HP products, would one penetrate less than the other?

I never was any good at physics (that's why I went to law schoo ). So would the 124 "dump" more energy and penetrate less or would it penetrate more?

Any help is appreciated.

 

[TheProf]

From what I understand... all things being equal...the heavier load will penetrate more...

 

[wrs840]

I settled on 9mm Remington Golden Saber 124gr non-plus-P JHP "low flash" as my go-to for low-light indoor shooting.

Les

 

[Steve C]

Assuming you are talking about through a human or animal target. However there isn't a simple answer about one weight bullet penetrating more or less. If you brows through some of the testing done at http://www.brassfetcher.com/ I think you will see similar results with most bullets tested for around 12"+. The heavy 147gr usually penetrates more, in the 14"+ range.

There's little reason to worry about over penetration, its much more likely in a gunfight that you will completely miss the target at least some of the time in which case bullets passing through the target is not the issue.

 

[JTQ]

All other things being equal, the lighter bullet will penetrate less.

The 115 grain Winchester Silver Tip has a reputation for rapid expansion and shallow penetration.

 

[MICHAEL T]

use 9mm short (380) people say this round will never over penetrate in fact many say useless round.

 

[NOLAEMT]

I think its a moot point...

It is statistically likely that a person will miss at least one round when shooting in a life and death situation. those rounds are much more dangerous than a round that has over penetrated someone and continues through.

 

[WC145]

9 grains of weight won't change anything enough to make a difference. My duty load is115gr +P+, I carry the same round in all my 9mm's. I'm confident in it's historic performance and I train to look beyond my target, I don't worry about over penetration.

 

[rcmodel]

use 9mm short (380) people say this round will never over penetrate in fact many say useless round.

I think he ask about a 9mm Luger caliber gun.

.380 ACP, or 9mm Short as you call it, will not even work in a 9mm Luger caliber gun.
It's a completely different size cartridge case.

I won't even address the "useless" part.
But a 90 grain JHP bullet at 900 FPS plus is gonna leave a mark.

rc

 

[Rexster]

In the older days of expanding JHPs,, lighter bullets would be less likely to over-penetrate, primarily because they were more likely to be going fast enough to expand in the first place.

Nowadays, largely thanks to FBI protocols developed in the wake of the 1986 incident in southern FL, premium JHPs are engineered to penetrate to adequate depths, without over-penetrating, based on the FBI's idea of adequate and over-penetration. As a result, lighter-bullet loads no longer necessarily penetrate to shallower depths, as expansion is engineered to occur in a controlled manner.

 

[oboe]

There seems to be anecdotal evidence of just about everything - except for over penetration. This seems to be a non-problem, but if anyone can cite either anecdotal or statistical reports of over penetration in real life situations?

 

[rcmodel]

Well, if some of the reports are true of the cops shooting 50 or 75 rounds at somebody and only hitting him two or three times?

I'd say over-penetration of the rounds that did hit are probably a non-issue.

Anyway, a JHP that made it through somebody would be almost out of energy if it did hit something else.

rc

 

[Airburst]

Quote:
use 9mm short (380) people say this round will never over penetrate in fact many say useless round.

I won't even address the "useless" part.
But a 90 grain JHP bullet at 900 FPS plus is gonna leave a mark

exactly. I would like to see all of the keyboard commandos that bash the .380 stand there and take a hit from a .380 JHP within the distance gunfights usually happen. I'd bet minds would be changed.

 

[Ben86]

With most premium hollowpoints overpenetration will not be an issue. These are properly designed bullets, designed to work at a wide range of velocities. I go with 124 grain for my 9mms to help insure I get enough penetration, and because that is the weight originally intended for 9mm.

 

[481]

exactly. I would like to see all of the keyboard commandos that bash the .380 stand there and take a hit from a .380 JHP within the distance gunfights usually happen. I'd bet minds would be changed.

This is an inane argument.

I would also not want to be shot by a Red Ryder BB gun, but that hardly makes it a suitable choice for the purpose of self defense.

 

[Zerodefect]

I shot my left foot with .380 and my right with 9mm. It took an extra day for my right toe to grow back.

not the best experiment unless you, like me, are a king salamander

 

[Zerodefect]

Get the heavy 9mm and don't miss! Penetration difference between the 2 rounds is negligible and unpredictable if you miss.

9mm JHP should lose most of it's energy if you hit your target center mass, but there is no for sure.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

I suggest you determine the amount of penetration you feel is adequate and then choose a load that meets your requirements. Terminal performance of modern bullets is becoming less dependent on bullet weight. For example Barnes 9mm 105gr and 115gr bullets are capable of reliably penetrating as deep as some 124gr and 147gr bullets.

I assume you expect to achieve solid center mass hits on your human target with none of your bullets striking the periphery or extremities, in which the bullet would exit the body after traversing a short penetration path in tissues? Not to mention missing your intended target?

9 grains of weight won't change anything enough to make a difference.

9 gr can make a substantial difference, from inadequate/marginal penetration performance to adequate penetration, depending on bullet design and cartridge loading.

A bullet that passes through an arm before it enters the body can loose as much as 30 percent of its total penetration peformance. If it normally penetrates about 14 inches in bare gelatin it may only penetrate a total of 10 inches after passing through an arm. If the arm accounts for 4-5 inches of that penetration then it leaves 5-6 inches penetration potential remaining after it exits the arm.

 

[918v]

Overpenetration fears are unfounded. Show me one fatality caused by a fully expanded 9mm hollowpoint exiting a torso.

 

[tipoc]

If I'm worried about 9mm over-penatration...

What is it exactly that concerns you? An apartment building with thin sheet rock walls? Or the random shootout with lawyers from a competing firm on a public street? In seriousness what aspect of "over penetration" is on your mind.

tipoc

 

[millertyme]

isn't the obvious choice to use a hollow point and don't miss center mass.

 

[simonriece]

Over Kill?

Everyone does realize that even a .22 LR can lead to over penetration? If I'm not mistaken this question is coming from an attorney?

 

[jonmerritt]

I have tested various types of 9mm and .380 on pig carcass's. Both will fully penetrate in fmj or hollow point, fmj just does it more often. Even 22lr will go through one. Pig body is the closest you can get to human, even better than balistic gell. I have tested many differant types of ammo and calibers this way, I was bored. I do not believe 98% of the BS that gets thrown around by ammo companies, or "reports by LEO" or from the experts. ANd balistic gell is NOTHING like the human body for testing ammo, it is for lab testing only.

 

[Onmilo]

"Overpenetration fears are unfounded"

I can tell you about two teenage burglers that entered a mans residence and proceeded to start tearing things up in a quest for fame and fortune.

Said homeowner just happened to be home when they began their little night of merriment.

Said homeowner confronted the miscreants armed with a .40 caliber Glock 22 handgun loaded with 180 grain hollowpoints brand unknown.

Miscreants gather up some handy weapons, a golf club and a pair of hedgeclippers and advanced on the homwowner who promptly shot the first miscreant in the right shoulder.
Bullet penetrated the skinny lad through and through and proceeded to bury itself in the second lads heart, dead center mass.
Second lad more or less dropped dead, the first lad survived and is still doing time and reflecting on the error of his ways complete with a right arm that doesn't work too well anymore and will be like that for the rest of his life.

Don't believe that overpenetration is a myth, people come in all sizes and some bullets will blow right through some people, especially the skinny ones.

That all said, I like Federal 9mm 124 expanding full metal jacket loads and I also like the old standby Federal 9mm BP9 115 jacketed hollowpoint.
Whether either load overpenetrates kind of depends on how big the person is who decides to go to gunfighting with me.
Hell, most of the time my nines are loaded with FMJ and I don't feel undergunned and don't really worry too hard about overpenetration, my family knows to stay away from the backside of a bad guy unless they are holding him at bay and I live rural and not in a one bedroom apartment.

 

[481]

I find this to be the best perspective that I've read regarding the concept of over-penetration:

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=56486

Over-penetration while it can occur, is seldom an issue in most shootings. It can be mitigated (somewhat), by assuring (to the best of our abilities) that there is no one down range of the shooting.