If the Minutemen really wanted to stop the flow of illegals..

[Cosmoline]

They would stop trying to do the impossible at the border and concentrate instead on the real problem. They'd dress up as illegals and loiter on street corners in California or Texas until some gringo trying to evade federal and local law comes up and shouts "dos!", then hop in the the back of the truck. After working under illegal conditions and receiving illegal wages, the minuteman would then pull his CCW and hold the gringo criminal until authorities arrive to put him in federal prison for a few years for violation of about two dozen laws.

This I could respect. Walking around on the border is at best pointless.

 

[jefnvk]

I wouldn't say pointless. Look at all the attention they are geting.

 

[Waitone]

The border events is a masterful publicity stunt and it might just work.

Your point is entirely correct. Plugging the border is at best a delay. The real solution is busting the employers (AKA Workplace Enforcement). But then you'd get into issues like tresspassing and so forth.

MM's have already had an effect in that the federales decided to spring 500 borders agents to help stem the tide of criminal aliens. It would have never happened without the upcoming publicity stunt. Never mind the agents are there to eyeball the MM's. But it looks good on the evening nooze.

 

[Moondoggie]

I think they are accomplishing exactly what they set out to do.

They are getting lots of media attention which will hopefully embarass/shame our gov't into acting in accordance with 70% of popular opinion.

Best wishes for their success!

 

[Zundfolge]

After working under illegal conditions and receiving illegal wages, the minuteman would then pull his CCW and hold the gringo criminal until authorities arrive to put him in federal prison for a few years for violation of about two dozen laws.

Why not just drive around with a pickup truck picking up Illegals for "work" and when you have a full truck just pull whip out the ole cell phone and call INS and tell them you're on your way there with another truckload of illegals.

Eventually the word will get around with the illegals that its much riskier to stand on the corner waiting for work because you don't know if you're jumping into some lettuce farmer's truck or a minuteman's.

 

[Standing Wolf]

They are getting lots of media attention which will hopefully embarass/shame our gov't into acting in accordance with 70% of popular opinion.

I concur, but also have to say Cosmoline's idea isn't half-bad.

I wonder what would happen if people with cameras were to hang around illegal alien pick-up spots, record individuals hiring them and their license plates, and publish the pictures two ways: send copies to the I.N.S. and post them on a web site.

 

[Selfdfenz]

There are just too many major US companies involved in hiring illegals for workplace enforcement to work.

They drank the Kool-Aid and it didn't kill'em. Now there is no going back.

I don't know where you live but the drive thru windows of one of the major fast food chains where I live are totally populated with non-English speakers. Their language skills are so deplorable I can't believe they were educated in any US school at all.

There is also a major department store chain locally I'm sure you all would recognize if named and all of their stock crew speaks something besides English. Many of their floor staffers are just marginally able to understand enough English to get by. Not always even then. Since a goodly % of the shoppers are also not speaking English it's like being in a foreign country at times. At least I can talk to my kids as we drift thru the isles.

Do I need to point out the non-English language being spoken in all these venues is the same foreign language?

These are major representatives of corporate America. If they depend on what to this dispassionate viewer seems a universal level of hiring illegals, the federal governemnt will never take a pop at workplace enforcement. Too much heat that way comes.

It's too late.

S-

 

[Cosmoline]

You could add ten thousand agents and a fifty foot fence and the problem would remain. As anyone who has lived in the SW knows, the use of illegals by everyone from middle-class home owners to big business is commonplace and largely winked at. I'm sure many minutemen have good motives, but frankly the whole exercise is pointed the wrong direction.

 

[Lennyjoe]

The border events is a masterful publicity stunt and it might just work

I had a nice briefing today with a person from El Paso. Lets just say her company name was an acronym.

Several more goverment agencies are involved in this than the Border Patrol/ICE guys.

 

[rick_reno]

I think Time Magazine ran a lengthly article a few months ago about the immigration issues. I read it at my dentists - and they claimed that the majority of these people coming across already have jobs/papers waiting for them. Corporations here hire recruiters to go to Mexico and actively recruit employees - and the contractors know how/who can supply the paperwork they need to "legally" fill those jobs. I remember Tyson chicken was mentioned in the article, they were planning on replacing about 500 citizen jobs with illegals -they're much cheaper.

 

[XLMiguel]

This is OT, but a good giggle. There was a sporting goods shop by a pub I frequent that also did trophies and team uniforms for some of the three letter agencies in the area. One could buy baseball caps and t-shirts with the initials and logos for "Christians In Action". "Female Body Inspectors", "No Such Agency", and "Immigration and Naturlaization Service". It is great fun to walk in the back door of a restraunt that has offended you sense of good service with an INS cap and/or t-shirt on and watch the ensuing fuster-cluck.

Best wishes and God Bless the Minute Man Project. We've got to start somewhere.

 

[Desertdog]

the most beautiful idea I have heard. Why didn't I think of this.

They would stop trying to do the impossible at the border and concentrate instead on the real problem. They'd dress up as illegals and loiter on street corners in California or Texas until some gringo trying to evade federal and local law comes up and shouts "dos!", then hop in the the back of the truck. After working under illegal conditions and receiving illegal wages, the minuteman would then pull his CCW and hold the gringo criminal until authorities arrive to put him in federal prison for a few years for violation of about two dozen laws.

Just think what 100 agents, spread just 2 to a state, could accomplish.

Should be millions, if not billions, in fines and taxes.

Let's start the stings.

 

[centuryhouse]

>>>There are just too many major US companies involved in hiring illegals for workplace enforcement to work. Now there is no going back<<

Not to be contrary, but we should stop prosecuting murderers and rapist by that logic. "Too many people do it - obviously fighting crime is useless so lets throw our hands up in failure and give in to criminal society."

If it's illegal, either stand by your country's law (and sovereignty) or work to change the laws so that mass invasion of persons unwilling to "melt" into the melting pot" can be legal. Copping out is not the best option.

dw

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Cosmo, you are correct in that the Minuteman thing isn't pointed in the right direction and you are correct in that a huge part of the problem is that the illegals have a very good reason to be here, people will pay them. However, the notion of CCW citizen's arrests is pretty poorly thought out. It might work out for some retired folks who have nothing to do all day long but make citizen's arrests, go to court so as to follow through on the charges, and then deal with potential lawsuits against them for matters such as reckless endangerment or be arrested yourself for pulling your gun to effect an arrest in a non-life threatening and non-felony situation, but if you think the process will work, I would like to see how far you get with it yourself.

 

[Cosmoline]

Yes, it's a bit of a fantasy on my part. But nothing burns me more than Americans who complain about illegals yet gladly benefit from their labor. It still amazes me how many people are willing to go to the street corner to get cheap labor for their yard projects or house cleaning.

I honestly can't blame the illegals very much. It's not their country, so why should they care? If I could break the UK's gun laws and get away with it, I'd do it with glee. Indeed I actively encourage people to break those laws and there's nothing the UK can do to stop me. But in the case of hiring illegals it's Americans breaking American laws. Lots of laws. From federal income tax laws to state wage and hour laws. Not to mention insurance laws and so on.

 

[Selfdfenz]

centuryhouse

Comparing rape/murder to an illegal aliens stocking GatorAid/taking orders at a burger house drive thru is a poor comparison. I agree laws are violated in both instances but they are totally different crimes, totally different penalities, totally different victimology, no? I'll reach into your argument tool bag and comment that by your logic shouldn't we giving illegals the needle? I'm not ready for that.

You won't have to read too many of my THR posts to find out there is no more vocal opponent to illegal immigration than me.
I know stopping the problem at the border is unlikely to work given the level of effort apparent these days down that way but compared to busting W---M--- I give it a lot has a better chance of success. What politicain in his or her right mind wants to take that on?

All politicians respect money and what contributions can do for or against them come election time. The average 4-6 year elected federal official will not hammer on massive American corporations that hire illegals and to think they will is to deny how politics and politicians work. It's wrong but it's become reality. Many polls indicate most Americans want some form of border control but that fact will go unnoticed by our beltway saviours because of the $$ and corporate interests involved.

That's way I say it's too late for work place enforcement to work. Goofy as they were in so many ways the last prosecutions I recall involving enforcement of workplace hiring violations was during Janet Reno's term as AG! The fact we have experienced 1+ terms and counting of a current administration doing nearly nothing validates my POV regarding workplace violations.

S-

 

[Waitone]

You've just hit on the most worrisome aspect of this whole criminal alien thingy. That is Creeping Institutional Lawlessness (tm). Government doesn't like the laws the legislature passes? Ignore it.

Corporations find it too expensive to obey the law? Just ignore it.

I see more and more institutions (govt and private) simply ignoring law they don't like. No one is enforcing the law against these institutions.

Now what would happen if I find it contrary to my best interest to . . . . .I've got it, pay my income taxes. Will the IRS ignore me? What if I . . . . .you get the point. Its ok for institutions to break the law but not me. I'm sounding llike a social Democrat :banghead: but the fact of the matter is I consider myself to be a thinking libertarian. Something is broken when givernment breaks its own laws.

The thing that is worrisome is what happens when the aforementioned government moves from ignoring inconvenient laws to implementing laws that don't exist. What happens when the mayor of SFO or governor of NJ or MA or MD decides he or she is tired of gun crimes and decides to begin confiscation. What are we to say? We didn't complain over ignored laws, so what is the difference between ignoring a law and implementing a non-existent law?

I remined of a quotation by one A. Hitler which said something to the effect "You stand there with your law books, I'll stand here with my bayonet, and we'll see who prevails."

 

[centuryhouse]

>>Something is broken when givernment breaks its own laws.>>

Good points. But when the government fails to protect our sovereignty and enforce it's own laws, should the people a) do nothing or b) do something? If the answer is "b", then what action should it be?