If you can only get one (right now)...

[JWarren]

Thought I'd pose a question and see what everyone thinks.

For the purposes of this thread, please do not suggest other rifles, surplus or modern. Let's just deal with these for the moment. Thanks


I'm working on rebuilding my firearms collection, and I have a number on my list. However, I seriously doubt I can sneek in more than one at a time. Unlike some wives, mine actually does look closely at my firearms and can discern the difference between them. Taking interest in your hobbies can be good and bad at times, it seems.

At any rate, I want to get a Mauser and also a Mosin Nagant 91/30.

Both of the rifles will have the bolt handles bent down, and will have optics installed, but that is the extent of work I will do to them.

The primary criteria of the rifles will be that I want to get ones with shiny bores, good rifling, and if possible good stocks.

While I may shoot some mil-surp ammo in them, most will be either factory ammo or reloaded ammo (about to get into reloading)

I'm looking for an accurate rifle with character.


So the questions are:

Which one should I get first?

What cartridge to you prefer, 8mm, 7.62x54R, or even perhaps the 308 mausers?

Would the 308 Mausers handle commercial 308 reliably and safely?

What rifle to you prefer shooting in terms of comfort, stopping power, and accuracy?

Where do you have confidence that you could order one of these rifles, ask for hand-selected bores, and get what you are expecting?


Because I'm trying to do this on the cheap, I'm not considering the Finn 91/30's or the Sniper Repo's.

I'm basically talking about being able to get the highest condition within reason Mosin Nagant 91/30, Yugo mauser, or one of the 308 converted mausers (Spanish I suppose).


What are your thoughts, guys?

I really appreciate it!

John

 

[Red Tornado]

I'm far from being an expert, but I'll offer my 2 cents. I have 2 Mosins, but no Mausers yet, the reason being that there are too many Mausers, and once I start I'll have to have a bunch.

Anyway, the ammo is pretty much a wash. Same power for all practical purposes, loads of cheap surplus, and reloading makes either better.

The rifle: I believe there are more examples of lightly fired Mausers than there are 91/30s. If you were open to an M44 or M39, you could get better bores, in general. That said, you might still find a 91/30 that's in great shape.

I think there are some unissued or lightly used Mausers available, 24/47's or M48s. I seem to remember seeing them somewhere online, but I cant' remember where, sorry. I'll see if I can find them and edit this post, or somebody will come along who knows.

Basically, either it good, it's just which one you want to be addicted to first.
RT

 

[Kalashnikov]

Nothing beats a Mosin.

 

[Rasputin747]

The Mosin is the best. It is very reliable, very durable, and very cheap. Can't beat that old bloc surplus!

 

[DWARREN123]

I would go for a Mauser M48A first, already got the bent bolt and not war issued.

 

[Topkick]

Surplus Rifle

JWarren, Sir if you're interested in a fine rifle, I strongly suggest you check out the inventory if Finnish M39s at GUNS&AMMO.com. Prices run anywhere from $180 to $449 for an as new rifle and can be shipped direct to your door. I ordered one for $189 and could'nt be more happy unless it was one of the "unissued" ones, which I could'nt afford at the time. Good shooting.

Topkick

MOLON LABE

 

[JWarren]

Thanks for the replys guys. You gave me a lot to think about.

When I came home today, I saw my wife online ordering about a hundred dollars worth of shoes. I floated a trial ballon asking does that mean I can order a new Mauser tomorrow? She just gave me a dirty look.

Hehe... I am so glad I have a seperate business account for work. Now if I can just figure out a way to claim that sucker as "office furniture." Heck, maybe I can make a tax deduction if I keep it on the wall of my office during off-season.


All the best!

John

 

[Dr.Rob]

I'd be shopping for an 8mm 98K rather than a Spanish 308 if I wanted a 'surplus' gun.

The Mauser that came my way is definitely a shooter. 8mm has ballistics I wouldn't hesitate to shoot an elk with, and commercial ammo available at a reasonable cost.

Most 7.62x54R is milsurp non reloadable & corrosive.

 

[JWarren]

Dr. Rob,

I was coming to those same conclusions as well.

The only reason I was even considering the 308 one was to share a common caliber with my Saiga 308-- and the 1,000 rounds of SA I have on standby with it. However, I've heard across a lot of forums that one shouldn't really trust the 7.62 converted mausers with commercial 308 ammuntion due to the higher commercial chamber pressures. So that would limit me to weaker hand-loads for hunting and mil-surp for plinking with it.

So far, the 8mm mauser is remaining attractive to me due to the rimless cartridge. I don't know how much mil-surp ammo we can expect in 8mm mauser, however. If I were a betting man, I would suspect that there will be 7.62x54R available long after we've shot up all the 8mm mil-surp.

Not really a big deal however, As I mentioned earlier, I think reloading would be my primary source of ammo. I'm looking into that due to the realization that we probably won't be seeing any more decent 7.62 NATO mil-surp coming anytime soon. May as well get extra dies for a mauser, too.


Thanks again!

John

 

[byf43]

If the choice were mine, I'd take the 8mm Mauser, any day!!!

Here are my reasons:

1. I just like the look and feel of the K98k.
2. Ammo. Yes, there is abundant Mosin ammo, but, there won't be, forever.
I don't want (personally) to wind up with a fireplace poker.
3. IF needed, there are barrels available for not-too-much money, to convert the K98k to .308 or .30-'06! (Plus, IF necessary, I have literally thousands of pieces of .308 and '06 brass. Mostly '06 brass.)
4. Did I say that I like the look and feel of the K98k?

 

[JWarren]

byf,

I can't argue with any of your points, I agree with them.

As far as aesthetics, I can't think on many, if any bolt actions that have more attractive lines than a Mauser.

When I was talking about Mil-surp ammo, I was referring to the fact that 7.62X54R was still in service in a number of countries, and therefore had more of a potential for releases of mil-surp ammo.

I may be wrong, but I don't think any industrialized country is using an 8mm cartridge anymore, and thus we have probably seen all the mil-surp we will see from those countries.

Again, that has no bearing on my choice, since reloading is a possibility with both 8mm and 762.54R. Of course, commercial brass and more bullet alternatives exist for 8mm according to my perusing of Midway recently.

And again, that is only a marginal issue. It isn't that big of a deal to rebarrel a mauser if one had to as opposed to not shooting it at all. I've even seen places where you can get the barrel in the traditional military countour, meaning that you could leave the rifle in its stock configuration without further "sporterizing" it.

Today or tomorrow, I believe I will start trying to find a good Yugo Mauser. Any suggestions about where I could get one that as a quality rifle without being a rip-off?

I've heard good things about Classic Arms, don't know much about J&G Sales, I've only bought ammo from AIM Surplus, but had a good experience. I heard that Samco takes forever to ship although you get a good rifle, but they do seem pricy in some ways. I've heard nothing but negative about Mitchell's Mausers.

Thanks again all!

John

 

[byf43]

When I was talking about Mil-surp ammo, I was referring to the fact that 7.62X54R was still in service in a number of countries, and therefore had more of a potential for releases of mil-surp ammo.

Agreed, the potential is there, but, (someone correct me if I'm wrong) I think that Klinton by Executive Order (or something to that effect) banned any further importation of surplus arms/ammunition.


As for ammo, I've used AIM several times and have had superior service from them!

As for the military contour for the K98k, a good friend has both the '06 and .308 barrel(s).
It is my understanding that the M-48's receiver is a little shorter than the K98k's receiver, so, if re-barreling is in the future, you might not be able to load '06s in that rifle. But, there's still the .308.
(Again, I could be wrong. If I am, someone will no doubt, correct me.)

Where to buy the M-48?? I dunno. Never paid that much attention to them.
When I bought my K98k rifles, I only paid $219 for each one.

 

[JWarren]

Good call on the rebarreling issue.

Shouldn't be too much of a worry. As much as I hate to say it, I think my 30-06 days are over. I love the round, but have a hard time justifying purposely adding it back to my arsenal when I have a 308 now. It would make one more caliber I have to stock ammo for. I've literally had a 30-06 in my hand for over 2/3 of my life, but with the recent bugulary, a lot will seem to be changing in my choices due to current trends of availablity.

I wouldn't mind stocking some mil-surp 8mm just "in case" since it is so cheap at the present. But if I had to rebarrel at any time in the future, I'd probably have to go 308 to double up on that ammo.

It's my understanding that you have to do significant work to any mauser if you want to rechamber it to anything longer than 30-06. Seems that is the limit before you are doing magazine work. Otherwise, I would be SO tempted to go 300 WM if rebarreling was forced upon me.


Thanks again!


John

 

[byf43]

Shouldn't be too much of a worry. As much as I hate to say it, I think my 30-06 days are over. I love the round, but have a hard time justifying purposely adding it back to my arsenal when I have a 308 now. It would make one more caliber I have to stock ammo for. I've literally had a 30-06 in my hand for over 2/3 of my life, but with the recent bugulary, a lot will seem to be changing in my choices due to current trends of availablity.

I hear ya on the purposely adding into an arsenal.
I recently bought my first M1A. (See another post in this section of the forum about 'The Rule of Two(s)'!)

My 'luck' is running true to form. I buy a 7.62 x 51mm/.308 and find out surplus ammo is getting depleted/hoarded like there's no tomorrow!
Even factory .308 is getting expensive.
I've owned at least two .30-'06 rifles for more than 25 years and didn't 'need' to add the .308.
But, the opportunity to pick up 'a one in a ten-thousand' deal just literally fell into my lap. So, this (super accurate) low serial # SAI M1A followed me home.

I've heard horror stories of some cargo ships dumping their load(s) into the seas and oceans because of the importation ban(s).
Is this true?????? I honestly have NO idea. Is it possible??? Sure.

 

[JWarren]

You sound like me! I bought a FAL (got stolen in the burgulary) but it was a CAI angry monkeys on crack rifle. I was working out the bugs on it. I *Thought* I'd have a lot of mil-surp shooting options with it, but I don't see that in my future. Reloading seems to be the only economical option going forward in 308.

Grats on the M1A. That is a FINE rifle. I didn't buy one because I didn't want to shell out the bucks on an M1A and I got a Saiga 308-1 to cover my 308 need. That said, I realize now that I COULD have gotten an M1A for what I have put into my Saiga to get it to my liking: Tromix conversion, Adjustable palmrest grip, 8X PSOP scope, a few 20 round magazines, soon to be muzzle braked. Of course, it is now probably the best rifle I have EVERY owned-- even including the original HK-91 I had back in 1987 (you needed a wagon to haul that heavy thing around!)

I've heard about the dumping of cargo due to the import bans. Makes me sick if it is true. I am inclined to doubt it due to the sheer amount of paperwork and explaining the crew would be subject to if they did do such a thing. But stranger things have happened.

John