If you Conceal and Carry, Do You Also Wear Body Armor?

[ChanceMcCall]

There have been many innovations in body armor in the last ten years and even more with the introduction of "liquid armor" recently.

The city of Chicago has made the ownership of body armor illegal for all but a few.

So, the question is, how do you feel about the new concealable body armor, and do you own and wear it?

For those that are not aware, there are manufacturers of suits, sport coats, and top coats built to withstand most handgun bullets without anyone even realizing the protection is part of the garment. You can also buy hoodies, and work jackets done the same way.

 

[Jeff White]

I own it. I wore it on duty for years and I won't wear it now unless I am expecting to get into a gunfight. The discomfort level greatly outweighs the risk that I would ever need it while out and about. I no longer go out looking for trouble. If I worked as a cashier in a convenience or liquor store I might think about wearing it again. But for what I do now, it doesn't fit into my preparations.

I no longer keep a trunk full of SWAT gear in my vehicle either.

 

[1976B.L.Johns.]

I conceal/carry but have not ever thought about body armor much until I read your post. I do not see any need for my personal use but I can see where some people could use it. If armor is outlawed, we pretty much can assume who would have it.

 

[FL-NC]

I wore body armor for years in the mil and as a contractor- not the type police normally wear, military body armor capable of stopping 7.62 NATO, with a whole bunch more heavy stuff attached. Since all that foolishness is behind me, i don't intend to wear it again unless I am planning on getting shot at. In which case, I'll change my plans to prevent it. But I do still have 2 sets of paraclete BA and a set of 2nd chance concealable squirreled away for unforseen situations. Its awful strange to me that a city in the US would make body armor illegal for civilians- especially a place like the big windy, where the odds of it saving your life are higher than most places. The same people who want to make all guns illegal due to innocents being shot probably came up with that law. Makes as much sense to me as making a motorcycle helmet illegal.

 

[AZAndy]

I might consider it if they ever come up with armored Hawaiian shirts.

 

[Telekinesis]

I have body armor (both soft armor and rifle plates) but mostly use it for shooting classes where I'll be around people who's skill levels I don't know, especially if the class involves movement drills. There's a slim (but non zero) chance of someone screwing up so I want to be prepared for that. In one pistol class I watched a student draw down on another student... the drawer thought it was just part of the drill to point her loaded gun at another student

Also, if I know I am going to be in a fight (and can't get away) I will definitely wear body armor. No reason not to at that point. Of course if I can prepare for a fight there will also be rifles involved, so I wouldn't be worried about concealability or anything like that.

As a general addition to my every day clothing, I don't think I would barring some very specific threat. Body armor is uncomfortable, hot, and generally visible to anyone who knows what they're looking for. The "concealable" vests are pretty easy to spot, and I would be surprised if a IIIA rated sport coat wasn't stiff as a board. In the cost/benefit analysis, daily wear of armor just doesn't quite cut it for me.

 

[entropy]

I've worn it when teaching, as Telekenesis said, and frag vests in the Army, they didn't have the stuff they have now. I wouldn't just wear it when CCW, it would attract the wrong kind of interest for no really good reason.

 

[ChanceMcCall]

I have body armor (both soft armor and rifle plates) but mostly use it for shooting classes where I'll be around people who's skill levels I don't know, especially if the class involves movement drills. There's a slim (but non zero) chance of someone screwing up so I want to be prepared for that. In one pistol class I watched a student draw down on another student... the drawer thought it was just part of the drill to point her loaded gun at another student

Also, if I know I am going to be in a fight (and can't get away) I will definitely wear body armor. No reason not to at that point. Of course if I can prepare for a fight there will also be rifles involved, so I wouldn't be worried about concealability or anything like that.

As a general addition to my every day clothing, I don't think I would barring some very specific threat. Body armor is uncomfortable, hot, and generally visible to anyone who knows what they're looking for. The "concealable" vests are pretty easy to spot, and I would be surprised if a IIIA rated sport coat wasn't stiff as a board. In the cost/benefit analysis, daily wear of armor just doesn't quite cut it for me.

Modern body armor intended to stop pistol fire isn't quite as uncomfortable any more:

https://garrisonbespoke.com/custom-suits/bulletproof-suit/

http://www.bulletblocker.com/bullet-proof-clothing.html

My greater question is: Given that body armor is now easier and more comfortable to use than the standard military or LEO stuff, does it make sense to consider it on a regular basis as an additional tactic?

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

Seems like crossing over the line from preparedness into paranoia.

 

[Jeff White]

Have you ever worn any of the clothes in the links? The first link doesn’t list any NIJ rating and suggests that military uniforms are made of the same material. I’ve been retired from the Army for 15 years now, but my middle son is 16 years into his career as an Infantryman with multiple deployments to both Iraq and Afghanistan and I can assure you that they don’t wear bulletproof uniforms made with some kind of nano technology.

At the second link we find a coat that looks like a Carhart coat that they say is IIIA rated and weighs 8 pounds. 8 pounds is a heavy coat.

$940 for partial coverage seems like a pretty high price to pay for something that you have a very high probability of ever needing.

A lot of police officers are seriously injured and killed when they are hit in an area their vest doesn’t cover. It costs an extra $175 to get “full wrap coverage” with that coat.

I don’t see it as something the average person needs. In my opinion most people would be better served spending their money on training.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

I'm wondering, if I justifiably shoot and kill someone in self defense, how will my wearing body armor be used by a prosecutor and perceived by a jury?

 

[Telekinesis]

Modern body armor intended to stop pistol fire isn't uncomfortable any more:

https://garrisonbespoke.com/custom-suits/bulletproof-suit/

http://www.bulletblocker.com/bullet-proof-clothing.html

My greater question is: Given that body armor is now easy and comfortable to use, does it make sense to consider it on a regular basis as an additional tactic?

That suit from your first link is $20,000 (or so said their video), and as Jeff noted it doesn't even show a NIJ rating. It may technically prevent a handgun bullet from penetrating, but NIJ levels also incorporate standards for backforce deformation, which tries to approximate what type of non-penetrating injuries a person will receive. No NIJ rating makes me think that the suit will not give much protection in that regard.

And while the suit may be "available" I think it's a mischaracterization to say that it is representative of what anyone is likely to purchase. If you have $20k to burn on a suit that's awesome, but I can think of a LOT of better things to use that kind of money for.

The second link is more realistic of what people could get to have "normal" looking bullet proof clothing, but I guarantee that when viewed in person there will be something off about the way it looks. You simply can't take normal bulletproof materials and make it swing or fold or flow in a similar manner as compared to a regular non bulletproof piece of clothing. And anyone who brushes against you or otherwise comes into contact with your clothing will know pretty quick that it isn't just a normal hoodie.

So in practice your average guy will still have a heavy, nonbreathable piece of clothing that can still wind up giving away that it is bulletproof. I don't think it is worth the hassle.

Once we get to the point that we have light t shirts that stop high velocity pistol bullets and cost less than a lightly used BMW, it may make sense for daily wear for low threat situations. But until that happens I don't think it is worth the hassle of wearing it every day unless you think you might be in a situation that needs it.

 

[Madcap_Magician]

Modern body armor intended to stop pistol fire isn't uncomfortable any more:

https://garrisonbespoke.com/custom-suits/bulletproof-suit/

http://www.bulletblocker.com/bullet-proof-clothing.html

My greater question is: Given that body armor is now easy and comfortable to use, does it make sense to consider it on a regular basis as an additional tactic?

If you've got the money to have custom Kevlar suits, it'd be interesting to have one. But 'easy and comfortable to use' body armor is A) only relatively easy and comfortable to use, and B) on the opposite end of the spectrum from 'affordable and readily available.'

I mean... am I the only one here who can't afford to fly to Toronto to be fitted for a custom bespoke carbon nanotube suit?

 

[scaatylobo]

There have been many innovations in body armor in the last ten years and even more with the introduction of "liquid armor" recently.

The city of Chicago has made the ownership of body armor illegal for all but a few.

So, the question is, how do you feel about the new concealable body armor, and do you own and wear it?

For those that are not aware, there are manufacturers of suits, sport coats, and top coats built to withstand most handgun bullets without anyone even realizing the protection is part of the garment. You can also buy hoodies, and work jackets done the same way.

Funny you asked.

I wore it when I worked on an armored car / truck.

Then as an LEO for 26 years [ and on the range when I was R.O. ].

I hated it,but wore it on ALL side jobs.

Now 10 years retired I still have a few set ups, that I pray I will never need to put on.

One is Armor 500's for rifle fire,the rest are for walkabout's in public.

Like I said,pray I don't need them EVER.

 

[ChanceMcCall]

If you've got the money to have custom Kevlar suits, it'd be interesting to have one. But 'easy and comfortable to use' body armor is A) only relatively easy and comfortable to use, and B) on the opposite end of the spectrum from 'affordable and readily available.'

I mean... am I the only one here who can't afford to fly to Toronto to be fitted for a custom bespoke carbon nanotube suit?

You are right in pointing out the cost factor. Not everyone is going to be able or willing to spend that kind of money, nor would everyone think it a necessary investment.

(I would point out just for information that bespoke or custom made suits normally start around 10k without any bullet resistance, and that some tailors get the same amount this guy gets just for their regular suits. The world is full of different people with different size pocketbooks.)

That said, there are people who own and wear bullet resistant clothing. Obviously, for the most part, they are affluent people for the most part or people whose jobs are so dangerous they see a daily need. (Have you noticed Bill Clinton's custom made bullet resistant leather jacket when he is on TV being casual?)

Now, all of this said, I never wore any kind of armor when I was on the job many years ago. I'm pretty sure I would not wear typical LE or military gear ever, but ever is a long time and situations change. I might consider some of this new stuff if I could convince myself it made sense. That is one of the reasons why I started this thread. I want to hear what others think on this subject.

 

[chicharrones]

So, the question is, how do you feel about the new concealable body armor, and do you own and wear it?

I don't own it and I probably won't own it due to the way I have to dress for work. Plus, if I wore it I'd feel compelled to get it for my family as well. They would never wear it, since they don't carry. So, I'd be back to never wearing it to not favor my own protection over theirs.

 

[hdwhit]

ChanceMcCall asked:
So, the question is, how do you feel about the new concealable body armor, and do you own and wear it?

I once investigated it. Full coverage was hot, cumbersome and expensive. Partial coverage seemed to be more of an "opioid for the paranoid". And none of it did anything to protect my head. In the end I couldn't see that the loss of performance from being hot all the time combined with the sparse protection made it a worthwhile investment.

 

[CapnMac]

LE use of armor is predicated on the fact that they wear distinctive clothing. They are, in fact, not-concealed carriers. This means they can be targeted by criminals and engaged unexpectedly.

A persone carrying concealed looks much like any other person. There's no reason to expect an attack which armor might protect from (and that's a very limited number of directions).

We also expect LEO to move to the sound of the guns, not away. CHL are not expected to advance into the fray.

Wearing armor is a stone female dog. Even the least unpleasant armor is still unpleasant. CHL are meant to go about their lives and live them.

 

[George P]

If you've got the money to have custom Kevlar suits

Then you have a driver and a bodyguard and you stay out of places where you need to wear body armor. If where you live is THAT deadly, perhaps a relocation is in order......

 

[GBExpat]

So, the question is, how do you feel about the new concealable body armor, and do you own and wear it?

While it will surely be at the top of some folks' lists, I have no interest in acquiring any sort of body armor.

 

[JeffG]

I keep soft body armor in my truck with my bugout gear. As for as wearing it day-to-day, I don't think so.

 

[somethingbenign]

I'm sure there would be a price point that this sort of thing would interest me but we are not at that point yet. As others have said I could see the benefit while at ranges or classes where other's experiences and seriousness are unknown values. I guess this is more in the front of my mind as a couple weeks ago I was showing a coworker how to shoot and he muzzled me a couple times and had to take him to the side to just work trigger discipline and muzzle control with a cleared gun before I'd let him shoot again. I would feel more comfortable working with friends and family on range wearing something not overtly military looking.

 

[GRIZ22]

I'm wondering, if I justifiably shoot and kill someone in self defense, how will my wearing body armor be used by a prosecutor and perceived by a jury?

Most likely the same way they would look at a case where a LEO was involved in a justifiable shooting.

 

[Steve51]

Don't own any. Don't wear any.

 

[shafter]

Seems like crossing over the line from preparedness into paranoia.

Then you have a driver and a bodyguard and you stay out of places where you need to wear body armor. If where you live is THAT deadly, perhaps a relocation is in order......

Why not stay out of places where a firearm might be needed? Oh yeah, it's kind of hard to guarantee such a place. Do I think armor is practical for every day use, no, for a variety of reasons including price, bulk, weight, etc. However, if a person carries a gun it's because they believe there is a small possibility that they may be shot at one day. I don't think it's paranoid to plan for the possibility of getting hit.