I guess I should have said our constition but with changes. I would not let citizens have wmds. If the troop skill level is too much then they just train to their limits then. As for the drugs Im talking about recreational drugs. As for who decides when it is nessacary. I would make the final decision but would discuss the problem with my top generals and poll the people to see their stance on things. What I mean by citizens Militias is just like state militias. In my country their wouldent be states so their wouldent be state militias. Im not saying this about the US just my fictional country. No one really needs to decide if things are our problem or not. If it does'nt affect us it isnt our problem. As for the border I'd have a fense built and maned by military units. Since Im founding my own country does that mean I cant make up my own landmass to put it on or do I have to place it somewhere real? I dont like property tax as it makes acually owning land not possible because if you don't pay it gets taken. I suppose if i needed to I would tax it, but it wouldent be a large tax.
If you founded a country...
- Thread starter zookrider
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The Real Hawkeye
member
I must say that I think we are coming up with some grand ideas. I think that those of us contribing to this thread could actually come up with a form of government that would tend to preserve liberty, perhaps even better than the original one did. I only add that last bit because we have hindsight the Founders didn't, not because we are smarter than they were. They were brillient men, though they also stood on the shoulders of giants. Too bad we will never get a chance to do this for real. 
The Real Hawkeye
member
I think that before we actually got down to putting pen to paper, all of us should read and thoroughly study the Anti-Federalist Papers, i.e., the critique of the Federalist Papers and the 1789 US Constitution. You'd be amazed at how prescient they were. Just one small example of this follows:
Almost like they had a crystal ball, eh?
DRZinn
Member
"User pays" taxes, to the extent possible.
Clarify the "interstate commerce" clause, ie explain exactly what it allows.
No vote if you've received government money in the past year. Yes, that would include government workers.
I've been working on a bill of rights, which I'll post when I get home.
Clarify the "interstate commerce" clause, ie explain exactly what it allows.
No vote if you've received government money in the past year. Yes, that would include government workers.
I've been working on a bill of rights, which I'll post when I get home.
JesseL
Member
As an anarcho-capitalist(libertarian cranked up to 11), if I founded a country it would basically consist of me hanging out my shingle as a freelance judge offering services to parties that want help settling a dispute, and shooting anyone who came around trying to collect taxes.
hugh damright
Member
- Joined
- Nov 3, 2005
- Messages
- 825
If the intent is to frame a Union or Confederacy, then I think that the US and CSA Constitutions would provide useful examples. But if the intent is to frame a Country or Nation or State, then I would think that the State Constitutions would be the proper examples. I find it confusing that people want to frame a Country with a Constitution which frames a Union. What do y'all mean by "Country"? Is the idea to turn the US into a State?
I think i would modify the us constitution to remove the concept of individual states. One nation is really one nation, TYVM.
I would also permit a figurehead emporer (myself), loosly attached to the government.
A lot more laws would be passed by referendum, with speaker positions also having to summarize/communicate both sides (for and against) a bill in advocate format. Digital voting, voting equates to tax breaks. You have to actually watch both sides present the for and against arguments to vote.
Not sure that will lead to smarter voting, but a advocate system to actually communicate the issues in a short, clear, detailed summary so that is people decide to use their brains, they can effectively.
Some rights will come with responsibility clauses. Mostly along the lines of "if you bitch about something, we will ask you for a better idea and we may force you to implement it and then look over your shoulder so you do it right"
Auditing the government budget would be easy enough to read and check by anyone it might as well be a game show "who f--ked up this project"
businesses and individuals who knowingly and intentionally inflict excessive economic harm would be considered as traitors and dealt with accordingly. (Enron might be construed as a economic act of treason against the governments footing the bill)
Social and welfare programs would exsist, but all of them would entail a lot of hard, hands-on labor with tough performance standards. (our free lunch is in fact NOT free, build a highway, railroad, hydro dam(screw environmentalists on this issue), something that improves the infrastructure. Work programs, not handouts... )
Internal devleopment of infrastructure and economics, resource development/conservation/recycling should be the primary focus. A nation that cannot stand without massive global resource lifelines is not a free nation. (and thusly no nation may really be free anymore)
other evil ideas:
Death Penalty - there is only one way to implement it - involuntary organ donation. Convict takes a nap, organs save lives, never wakes up. Painless, saves lives, and puts the state in a "catch-22" for defending the policy - if the person is guilt they are literally repaying society in the lives of its citizens. If it turns out to be the "wrong one", then that person is a hero and matyr who just saved lives with their sacrifice. Gruesome but you can sleep easy knowing regardless, people's lives are saved due to execution.
I have spouted enough crazy ideas and bizarre wandering for one thread.
I would also permit a figurehead emporer (myself), loosly attached to the government.
A lot more laws would be passed by referendum, with speaker positions also having to summarize/communicate both sides (for and against) a bill in advocate format. Digital voting, voting equates to tax breaks. You have to actually watch both sides present the for and against arguments to vote.
Not sure that will lead to smarter voting, but a advocate system to actually communicate the issues in a short, clear, detailed summary so that is people decide to use their brains, they can effectively.
Some rights will come with responsibility clauses. Mostly along the lines of "if you bitch about something, we will ask you for a better idea and we may force you to implement it and then look over your shoulder so you do it right"
Auditing the government budget would be easy enough to read and check by anyone it might as well be a game show "who f--ked up this project"
businesses and individuals who knowingly and intentionally inflict excessive economic harm would be considered as traitors and dealt with accordingly. (Enron might be construed as a economic act of treason against the governments footing the bill)
Social and welfare programs would exsist, but all of them would entail a lot of hard, hands-on labor with tough performance standards. (our free lunch is in fact NOT free, build a highway, railroad, hydro dam(screw environmentalists on this issue), something that improves the infrastructure. Work programs, not handouts... )
Internal devleopment of infrastructure and economics, resource development/conservation/recycling should be the primary focus. A nation that cannot stand without massive global resource lifelines is not a free nation. (and thusly no nation may really be free anymore)
other evil ideas:
Death Penalty - there is only one way to implement it - involuntary organ donation. Convict takes a nap, organs save lives, never wakes up. Painless, saves lives, and puts the state in a "catch-22" for defending the policy - if the person is guilt they are literally repaying society in the lives of its citizens. If it turns out to be the "wrong one", then that person is a hero and matyr who just saved lives with their sacrifice. Gruesome but you can sleep easy knowing regardless, people's lives are saved due to execution.
I have spouted enough crazy ideas and bizarre wandering for one thread.
ArfinGreebly
Moderator Emeritus
Just A Quick Thought
I'll contribute more later, but . . .
I notice a couple of posts wishing to restrict voting to property owners and such, while restricting welfare recipients.
On the one hand I can get behind that. On the other hand, there will be people who, for one reason or another, don't at the present moment own a fixed residence. They may be in transition, moving, retired, or recovering from a bad "employment moment" that has cost them their home (not that I would have any experience with that ).
I would therefore want to mitigate that with this:
I'll contribute more later, but . . .
I notice a couple of posts wishing to restrict voting to property owners and such, while restricting welfare recipients.
On the one hand I can get behind that. On the other hand, there will be people who, for one reason or another, don't at the present moment own a fixed residence. They may be in transition, moving, retired, or recovering from a bad "employment moment" that has cost them their home (not that I would have any experience with that
).I would therefore want to mitigate that with this:
The Real Hawkeye
member
I second Arfin's amendment to the voting privilege clause.
Glockfan.45
member
We need a few changes to make it ironclad. I for one am tired of the supreme court making bogus interpretations of the constitution. Also I would set term limits for congress, as well as state and local government like govenor, eliminate lobby groups, and politcal parties.
The Real Hawkeye
member
As to Hugh's comments, I think he has a valid point. We need to clarify if we are talking about redoing what the Founders did, i.e., 1) formulating a confederation of preexisting States, or 2) establishing a nation from scratch, e.g., recent plate shifts have forced a new, geologically rich and fertile, land mass up from the earth, approximately the size of New Zealand, in the middle of the North Atlantic Ocean, which we, at Legal and Political, have acquired the land rights to. The Constitution would be very different depending on which we are talking about.
Axman
Member
I would use the current U.S. Constitution but add a clause, "If anyone wishes to twist the meaning of any amendment, he shall be punished according to the amendment they wish to misinterpret."
Therefore if one wishes to manipulate the...
...1st Amendment, he shall have to endure a 6 hour Brady Campaign speech.
...2ndAmendment, he shall be sentenced to life imprisonment at Rosie O'Donnell's house.
...3rd Amendment, the army has a sleepover for a few weeks. If he's homeless, then his new home should be an army barracks.
...4th Amendment, every day the cops come and ransack their house. Homeless? Then he gets a free BC search every day!
...5th Amendment, repeat any of the punishments one more time.
...6th Amendment, long slow dragged out trial to be accented by the other punishments.
...7th Amendment, be allowed to be sued for ever dollar owed to anybody, not just amounts over $20. The filing of fees shall be covered by the accused.
...8th Amendment, $10,000,000,000 bail.
...9th Amendment, seee any of the above or other implied rights.
...10th Amendment, see the above punishments but on a state level.
...of course don't take me seriously!
Therefore if one wishes to manipulate the...
...1st Amendment, he shall have to endure a 6 hour Brady Campaign speech.
...2ndAmendment, he shall be sentenced to life imprisonment at Rosie O'Donnell's house.
...3rd Amendment, the army has a sleepover for a few weeks. If he's homeless, then his new home should be an army barracks.
...4th Amendment, every day the cops come and ransack their house. Homeless? Then he gets a free BC search every day!
...5th Amendment, repeat any of the punishments one more time.
...6th Amendment, long slow dragged out trial to be accented by the other punishments.
...7th Amendment, be allowed to be sued for ever dollar owed to anybody, not just amounts over $20. The filing of fees shall be covered by the accused.
...8th Amendment, $10,000,000,000 bail.
...9th Amendment, seee any of the above or other implied rights.
...10th Amendment, see the above punishments but on a state level.
...of course don't take me seriously!
Grape Ape
Member
I love Gridlock
I say we elect the Senate by party. For each percentage point of the vote a party gets it gets one Senator.
The Dems and Reps would probably each get 30-40% and the rest would be split among the Libertarians, Wobblies, Commies, Greens, Constitutionalists, etcetera.
I think this would also give us fringe types one opportunity to do something besides hold our noses and vote for the lesser evil.
I say we elect the Senate by party. For each percentage point of the vote a party gets it gets one Senator.
The Dems and Reps would probably each get 30-40% and the rest would be split among the Libertarians, Wobblies, Commies, Greens, Constitutionalists, etcetera.
I think this would also give us fringe types one opportunity to do something besides hold our noses and vote for the lesser evil.
erikm
Member
Hmm. How about outlawing voting districts below the state level?
Another item: All laws and regulations shall have a sunset term of no more than ((term limit)*(electoral period))+2 years. Laws cannot be simply re-enacted. Every law needs to be reviewed from time to time. And not by the drafters.
Third: The text of any law or regulation shall, upon coming into force, immediatelly enter unto the public domain in its entirety. All laws and regulations shall be published by the government in easily accessible formats. Copyrighted lawtexts are an abomination
Fourth: All law bills and regulations shall be given a one line title and single paragraph preface. Law bills and regulations shall only deal with matters contained in the title and preface. No omnibus or badly titled bills!
Any personal income tax shall be a flat percentage, and not more than 10% of income in total.
Hmm.. Something about not outlawing victimless moral violations. I'm thinking about not outlawing (self-)prostitution and the running of brothels.
Cheers,
ErikM
Another item: All laws and regulations shall have a sunset term of no more than ((term limit)*(electoral period))+2 years. Laws cannot be simply re-enacted. Every law needs to be reviewed from time to time. And not by the drafters.
Third: The text of any law or regulation shall, upon coming into force, immediatelly enter unto the public domain in its entirety. All laws and regulations shall be published by the government in easily accessible formats. Copyrighted lawtexts are an abomination
Fourth: All law bills and regulations shall be given a one line title and single paragraph preface. Law bills and regulations shall only deal with matters contained in the title and preface. No omnibus or badly titled bills!
Any personal income tax shall be a flat percentage, and not more than 10% of income in total.
Hmm.. Something about not outlawing victimless moral violations. I'm thinking about not outlawing (self-)prostitution and the running of brothels.
Cheers,
ErikM
cloudkiller
Member
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2003
- Messages
- 134
On Voting Rights and Judicial Activism
1. Welfare recipients vote in very very low numbers, and have basically no influence on the electorate. Removing them from the electorate will have no effect.
2. Property owners with large stakes in the system already have a government structure that supports their needs. -- Ours. The problem isn't that non-owners are voting in too many numbers. The problem is that the very wealthy can manipulate a broken system to serve their interests, and make small property owners pay the bill.
3. If activist judges were actually banned, we would have neither liberal nor conservative judges. Both are equally activist, just about different things.
1. Welfare recipients vote in very very low numbers, and have basically no influence on the electorate. Removing them from the electorate will have no effect.
2. Property owners with large stakes in the system already have a government structure that supports their needs. -- Ours. The problem isn't that non-owners are voting in too many numbers. The problem is that the very wealthy can manipulate a broken system to serve their interests, and make small property owners pay the bill.
3. If activist judges were actually banned, we would have neither liberal nor conservative judges. Both are equally activist, just about different things.
The Real Hawkeye
member
This is a too often repeated misstatement. An activist judge cannot be conservative, because respect for the rule of law is central to conservatism. When laws can mean anything a judge says they mean, without regard for original intent and plain wording, the rule of law is no more. A conservative justice might suggest to the legislature that they adjust the law if they (the legislature) believe society has changed such as to require it. They would not, however, themselves change the law by fiat. If they did it by fiat, they would be, by definition, activist, and not conservative, justices. You see, these are opposites, not merely the alternative sides of the same coin as the leftist and their allies in the media would have us believe. There is no moral equivalency between activist and conservative justices. One favors the rule of law, while the other favors the rule of a small elite cabal of men in black robes who "know better" than the rest what's good for us.
DRZinn
Member
Erikm has some good ones. I like a sunset clause on every law, especially, except the Contitution itself. Just to allow the possibility that there is something else real important, make it a graduated system. For example: If the law passes with 50%+1, it sunsets in two years. 60%, 5 years. 75%, ten years. 95+%, 50 years. Or something like that.
No amendments that have nothing to do with the original bill.
No amendments that have nothing to do with the original bill.
el44vaquero
Member
Rule 1 I'm always right and I always get my way.
Rule 2 See Rule # 1
These are subject to change at my whim.
I'm always right and I always get my way.Rule 2
See Rule # 1These are subject to change at my whim.
White Horseradish
Member
Were I to set up a country, there would be a requirement that all laws passed be readable by an average 8th grader.
There would also be a mandatory periodic review of existing statutes to see if they are being enforced. Laws found not enforced in the span of ten years would be up for automatic repeal unless reinstated by a vote in the legislature.
I would also provide for a government-run hotel big enough to accommodate the elected representatives in the capital, should they need to stay there. That ought to even out and control their cost of living. If they want better housing, they would be welcome to get it at their own expense.
There would also be a mandatory periodic review of existing statutes to see if they are being enforced. Laws found not enforced in the span of ten years would be up for automatic repeal unless reinstated by a vote in the legislature.
I would also provide for a government-run hotel big enough to accommodate the elected representatives in the capital, should they need to stay there. That ought to even out and control their cost of living. If they want better housing, they would be welcome to get it at their own expense.
3 provisions I'd include in my constitution:
1. All elected offices have a 4 year term limit.
2. Any individual may hold 1 elected office once in their lifetime.
3. Any legislator may propose any law they see fit. However, if the proposed law is voted down, the legislator who proposed the failed law is immediately removed from office, all of his/her assets are forfeit, and they are exiled to some unpleasant place called The Isle of Failed Tyrants for 10 years.
THAT should keep the Federal Register managable.
1. All elected offices have a 4 year term limit.
2. Any individual may hold 1 elected office once in their lifetime.
3. Any legislator may propose any law they see fit. However, if the proposed law is voted down, the legislator who proposed the failed law is immediately removed from office, all of his/her assets are forfeit, and they are exiled to some unpleasant place called The Isle of Failed Tyrants for 10 years.
THAT should keep the Federal Register managable.
The Real Hawkeye
member
Hahahahaha!!! I love that idea.
What a crock. The wealthy pay the lion's share of all taxes, other than FICA and excise taxes.
Want to guess what percentage of federal income taxes are paid by the wealthiest 1% of tax payers?
I do agree that there are way too many special tax breaks built into the system, but that can be fixed by a simple flat tax or replacement of the income tax with a sales tax.
xd9fan
Member
ouch....the truth hurts.....
unspellable
Member
Three or more houses in congress, at least one of which is elected by party rather than district. It would require a 2/3 supermajority to pass anything. One house has no power to pass anything, they only repeal, repeal requiring only a 1/3 minority.
Make all parking spaces eight inches wider.
Make all parking spaces eight inches wider.
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