If you have a gun for self-defense, which have you spent more $ on, guns or training?

[jlbraun]

If it's "guns", then why?

"Guns" means the guns you own for self-defense, not a hunting or trap gun.

"Training" means "being formally taught by an instructor". It does not cover money spent on ammo, money spent on competitions, or money spent on practice.
"Guns" are firearms and accessories only.

If I were a criminal, I would be much more scared of a person with $2000 worth of training and a $375 bone stock CZ-75 than a person with $200 of training and a $2000 Les Baer 1911, (edit: both having equal amounts of practice).

Training doesn't look pretty in the gun safe, but I think that the money spent on it is a better value.

(Note: I'm guilty of this too.)

 

[Ala Dan]

"More on guns"; as my training cost me nothing, as a former LEO I'm often
times invited too shoot in the "instructors class"~!

 

[M2 Carbine]

Offhand I can't think of any money I've spent for training and I've been shooting about 50 years.

I've had a little formal training, like in the USMC, but it wasn't money out of my pocket.

 

[CountGlockula]

My Glock 35 was around $600. The my training fee is around $100+, I know a guy that gets me discount.

 

[Alphazulu6]

Get a nice 12 gauge and buy the bird loads to train with. Seriously it does not take Annie Oakley to shoot a friggin 870 express with deadly accuracy.

 

[sacp81170a]

I've had a ton of formal training, both in the military and as a civilian LEO. I've paid for some classes myself, but most come from qualification requirements. Now that you've opened the can of worms, what kind of training are you talking about? Felony arrest procedures, marksmanship, fire and maneuver as a: 1) fire team 2) squad 3) entry team, individual personal defense, force on force with SIMS or MILES, calls for fire, calls for CAS?

(Just had to throw those last two in.)

The point I'm trying to make is that anything beyond the basics is influenced by mindset and practice. Take that guy with the $2000 Les Baer and the $200 worth of training. If the $200 worth of training is tactically and fundamentally sound and he religiously practices those fundamentals every week, I'd take his chances over the guy with the $2000 worth of training that hasn't picked up a gun in three years. By excluding practice expenses, you skew the equation completely. Any good trainer will tell you the only way you're going to master what he or she has to teach is to take it home and practice, practice, practice. You ain't gonna get it all in a 5-day class.

Translation: Your formal training is worth exactly as much as the time you spend outside of class practicing what you learned in the class.

 

[MinnMooney]

I've spent way more on weapons than on "Formal Training". Of course, I've had the nessesary training required for a carry permit. After seeing that that was so basic and not much better than a youth, firearms training class I signed up for another, more intense class. That turned out to be pretty lame as they couldn't accept the fact that I wore my pistol 'weak-side'. Well, for most people it's 'weak-side' but for me (with shoulder problems) it's my "only-way-to-get-the-damn-weapon-out-of-the-holster" side! They just couldn't handle that and said that I couldn't take the class if I refused to switch sides for the class. HUH? What good would that possibly do me to train that way and then have to switch back to the only way it could do me any good.
Now, I practice on my own - for free - and spend a lot more time at it.
So - if it's how much money that you spend is the only criteria.... then I fall short of that standard.

P.S. LE get a bunch of training and the stats that I hear about their shooting ability in actual life instances are pretty pathetic. I am NOT putting them down because I believe that unless you have ice in your veins, most people shoot in a near-panic state of mind while being shot at.
I just read an article by a tactical trainer who said that after teaching the two-handed pistol-shooting method for years, he found out (by watching video survailance tapes) that in actual heat-of-the-moment shooting, most LE personel shoot one handed. They use the other hand to lean on a roof, trunk or wall or are opening a door to go through or just for balance but the tapes show that most of the training went out the window in actual. He now teaches BOTH, one and two handed shooting.

My point here is this - all of the training in the world might not make that critical difference when it counts. I believe that it's what's inside of you and what you're fighting for that will make a bigger difference. Whether you do formal or informal training, just keep the familiarity with weapons going so you'll not fumble with the safety in a tense moment.

 

[MinnMooney]

To : sacp81170a -
I couldn't have said it any better myself !!!
You were just finishing your reply while I was getting carried away with mine. lol

msg. : "Keep on practicing." and it doesn't need to be formal and/or expensive.

 

[alucard0822]

I have spent more on ammo and reloading equipment and components than most any other expense.

I have spent at least double on "formal" training classes than on firearms I would use as a defense. as I thouroughly enjoy most of the classes I have attended, and my defensive arms are simple and reliable no more expensive than they need to be(P220, 92fs, 870, AR-15), the firearms that I compete, or like to shoot the most cost more, but suffer a little in complexity, handling (adj target sights snag) and to a small degree reliability, or would have little use in a civilian defense situation other than SHTF (KC 1911 target, M1 garand, "built" AR, savage 10fp)

ideally there should be some time/expense for "preparations", a good alarm system, escape routes, "family fire drills" and the like. All the training in the world, and best defensive weapons are useless if you wake up at 3am with a half dozen armed intruders standing over you, or your home is ablaze

 

[fletcher]

I've spent more on all of my guns than all of my training . However, my Makarov (primary carry) was somewhere around $160-180, and I've spent about $400 on training.

 

[jfh]

although currently inactive, I've been an NRA instructor

certified in six different proficiencies and a summer camp 'Director of Marksmanship' running the .22LR range. My primary 'perspective' from youth shooting, the HS Rifle Team, and the camp shooting was Rifle marksmanship.

Twenty years ago I started teaching myself basic handgun from there, with an emphasis on practical pistol skills.

I'm also a former HS English teacher well-founded in, shall we say, different 'principles' of learning for different types of skill acquisition. As a result, I've done a lot of self-training, and sought advice as needed from other proficient shooters.

Currently, I'm going through a 'familiarization' regimen to get used to and proficient with my new j-frames. I expect to take an 'advanced' CCL class in the near future, and I may do a PD-CQB type class as well.

The only real problem with self-teaching is that 'one doesn't know what one doesn't know.' IOW, if you have the basic skill knowledge, you may still need a second person to observe your shooting (or whatever) to see what isn't working right.

Jim H.

 

[JohnBT]

More on guns here. Just the Rohrbaugh put me over.

You know, I never spent anything on driving lessons and I haven't been charged with a wreck since I got my license in 1966. (I backed into a pole once, but that didn't get reported.) Maybe my dad's military and state police training has rubbed off on me.

John

 

[DragonFire]

Another side to this is that one gun doesn't do it all. I have full size guns for CCW when I have lots of cover clothing, compacts for summer time cover dress, and a sub-compact for deep concealment.

I rotate which ones I practice with, to make sure I'm decently proficient with them all.

As a non-military, non-leo, citizen I think there's only so many skills I need to be really good at (I'm not planning on being on any entry teams). Which means there's only so much formal training that I feel would justify the expense. I try to practice what I've learned as often as I can, I've taken some refresher courses, and gotten with some friends who have taken the same training to do our own "refreshers".

I believe as others have said, I think it's more important to practice what I've learn and focus on my mindset, accuracy and speed. I don't think continual formal training, especially if the "philosophy" of that training is constantly changing necessarily makes you more skilled.

That's not to say continual training has no value. But you need hands-on experience to fully grasp alot of that training, and to know what pieces of each course will work for you, which pieces won't, and to know how to merge all those separate pieces into practice in some defensive skillset.

So while I agree that having alot of guns (or one or more very expensive guns) has no direct correlation to how skilled you are, I don't see that having taken alot of formal training has any more of a correlation.

 

[GRIZ22]

I'm a retired LEO and firearms instructor and in the Army Reserve (I went active duty about 40 years ago and have had some AD stints since) I have spent more on guns. All my training (including being an artilleryman) was free to me.

 

[springmom]

You know, I never spent anything on driving lessons and I haven't been charged with a wreck since I got my license in 1966. (I backed into a pole once, but that didn't get reported.) Maybe my dad's military and state police training has rubbed off on me.

Well said. There is undoubtedly benefit I could gain from formal training, but apart from the CHL class, I've not done any. OTOH, I shoot regularly, and I don't think that's unimportant either.

But I'd have to go do a week at some academy somewhere to pay more than I have for my Kimber and my Beretta shotgun put together.

Springmom

 

[spartan55]

Thanks to all "Taxpayers" for giving me the best tactical, military and police training available. Shoot, Move, And Communicate....BLOOD, BLOOD makes the grass grow green....U.S. Army infantry 9years, 4years FED. lawenforcement and counting......

 

[Alphazulu6]

Thanks to all "Taxpayers" for giving me the best tactical, military and police training available. Shoot, Move, And Communicate....BLOOD, BLOOD makes the grass grow green....U.S. Army infantry 9years, 4years FED. lawenforcement and counting......

Haha. Keep the fire going for the ole Benning School For Boys training camp

 

[ShackleMeNot]

I spend more on training.

It's rare that I meet someone that has taken more classes than the number of guns they own.

 

[elkhuntingfool]

how would a criminal know if you have $2000 of training while staring down the barrel of your favorite handgun? My boy has $0 of training - well, other than my cost for 45acp rounds and range time - and he is very very accurate with my Taurus.

 

[heypete]

The government paid me to get trained, and I got train on their big guns. Of course, dealing with bad guys went something along the lines of "GUNNER, SABOT, TANK" or "GUNNER, COAX, TROOPS".

In the civilian world, I spent a weekend at Front Sight, but it was free with the certificate. Otherwise, it would have been about $800. It was pretty neat, and I learned a lot.

 

[Crimper-D]

Most Of My Training Was Free

But the one course I paid for was about equal to the 3 CCW's I can have on my permit.

 

[Ohio Rifleman]

I haven't spent a dime on formal training yet. Though, when I turn 21, I plan on getting my CCW. That'll be $100 or so right there. All the "training" I've had is from my dad, an ex-LEO. But I think it's hard to "train" for being shot at.

 

[68'chevelle]

I got all the training I need from the Marines.

 

[def4pos8]

I've been "trained" on everything from the M-15 revolver through the LGM-30G ICBM. I've "trained" as a Jaeger and lehrer (mentor) of Jaegers. The litany goes on and on. I don't think that I'm all that strange. True practitioners of this art are perpetual students.

Others choose to purchase hardware.

A cousin once witnessed my harvest of a whitetail. He had never seen, in thirty years' hunting, an animal simply drop. I told him of the Jaeger's blatschuss, eventually showing him how I had removed the arteries from the top of the heart. He asked how that had happened. I replied: "That was shot number 10,001 of 10,001."

So it goes. Waidmannsheil !

 

[2ndamd]

By training I thought you meant shooter train thy self. Which means the cost of ammo. I spend twice as much on ammo in the first 6 months of owning a self defense gun, than the gun itself.

But what training classes do I spend money on???? None. The state paid for me to go to some though.