If you have to register cars, you should have to register guns!

[sparx]

It hardly matters, since firearms are already registered, but I would be all for treating guns like cars. My California handgun license should allow me to carry my registered pistol throughout the United States, just like my CDL allows me to drive my registered automobile throughout the U.S.

Not everywhere, thank goodness! Not in New Mexico, or Colorado, or Texas, or Missouri or Kansas (at least while I lived there). You may not mind having to "register" your rightful and lawfully owned firearms, but I sure as heck do (and earthquakes aside, that is one of the reasons you won't see me living in CA). Registration is the first step towards confiscation in my mind, and also in my mind is the fact that there's *no one* that will take away my late granddad's shotgun as long as I'm alive and able to fend for it.

 

[Ohen Cepel]

Besides the Constitutional issue.

To keep it on the same level:
You should have to have a Class III permit to have ANY car that will go over the speed limit. Otherwise, I have to assume that you're a murderous maggot who is only out to kill people with your car! Really, why do you need a Corvette?!?!?
Also, all cars should have controls put in them to limit speeds to 10mph (think of the children we'll save!!!)

Ok, sarcasim aside. The cars operate on state roads and therefore, there is a reason for the gov't to stick it to you. Your arms are not used daily in interstate commerce or on the roads.

If we start this. Then I think people should need a Class II permit before they have a kid! They can be much worse than many man made weapons

 

[v8fbird]

"The cars operate on state roads and therefore, there is a reason for the gov't to stick it to you."




So you think there should even be state roads?

 

[Dmack_901]

"The cars operate on state roads and therefore, there is a reason for the gov't to stick it to you."

So you think there should even be state roads?

I don't quite understand your point(could you elaborate?). There are state roads.

I mean, people could establish private roadways, but I doubt that's what you're refering to.

 

[kludge]

To keep it on the same level:
You should have to have a Class III permit to have ANY car that will go over the speed limit. Otherwise, I have to assume that you're a murderous maggot who is only out to kill people with your car! Really, why do you need a Corvette?!?!?
Also, all cars should have controls put in them to limit speeds to 10mph (think of the children we'll save!!!)

I like that!

What the government licenses it regulates, what it regulates it controls, what it controls is not free and is a privilege.

 

[v8fbird]

"I don't quite understand your point(could you elaborate?). There are state roads. I mean, people could establish private roadways, but I doubt that's what you're refering to."



That was what I was referring to. The state should have neither the authority or the right to establish roads. If they are the state's roads, the state gets to decide who, what, where, when. This is something I MUCH rather would want one of my fellow citizens deciding and, if he was a jerk, someone else could build a new road. The state maintains a monopoly on roads the same way it does on postal delivery, protection, marriage, etc.

If the state can say "you can't drive on our roads," it is restricting your right to free movement as it is a "public road." However, a private citizen who owns a private road can say the same thing, but instead of violating your rights he is simply deciding what can and can't be done on his property.

I don't think I made that point very well, but can you at least see what I'm getting at?

 

[Gordon Fink]

Not everywhere, thank goodness! Not in New Mexico, or Colorado, or Texas, or Missouri or Kansas (at least while I lived there).…

May I take it that you’ve never purchased a firearm from a federally licensed dealer? If not, then some or all of your guns are registered. It’s a haphazard system, but it’s registration nonetheless.

~G. Fink

 

[Dmack_901]

Yeah, V8. I see you point, and it could theoritically work, but the constitution states:

"To establish post offices and post roads; "

When refering to the powers that congress shall have. And it's also necessary for the operation(troop/machine transport) of an army.

Maybe without that clause, but it's been working well with it.

 

[mp510]

I don't support gun registration but I don't believe that it violates the RKBA unless there are excessive fees attached. I noticed that most registration schemes are revenue cllection schemes. IE:
Registration data used to collect property tax on car.
Annual fee required for certificate of number (registration) on watercraft.
Tax stamp on NFA items.

 

[sm]

Prostitutes, be they male or female are, required to be registered in some jurisdictions. The mindset of all gun owners being "registered" makes as much sense as everyone with a penis, a vagina or mammaries being registered to prevent Prositution.


Driving is a "priviledge"

Gun ownership is a "right".

 

[grampster]

Actually, driving ought to be neither a right or a priviledge. It ought to be a given. Imagine having a license to ride a horse in the 18th century. Cars today are as necessary as horses. Firearms are more so.

 

[bg]

Be careful of what you wish for. Here in Ca, one needs
to have insurance in order to reg a car for driving on
public highways. Non-op doesn't need to be so. However
if one would prefer their weapons to be reg, then should
a separate insurance policy for EACH firearm also be
forced on the weapon and owner ? For instance, we pay
around 550.00 for two cars with the min coverage allowed
here in Ca a yr. Would you be willing to pay like sums
for the weapon if they were forced to be reg ? That would
get pretty expensive pretty quick.

 

[evan price]

I think y'all are confusing issuing a TITLE to a motor vehicle with issuing a REGISTRATION.

You see, auto TITLES are documents that prove ownership of the vehicle in question. An auto REGISTRATION is a document that shows you paid your road-use taxes on the vehicle. These road-use taxes are supposedly used to offset the cost of building, improving, maintaining and patrolling the highways streets etc in your state and town- also the tag # is used to trace the vehicle, for example, for reporting traffic issues.
If a vehicle is not used on public roads it is not required to be registered & have license plates. If stored on private property out of view of the public it also does not need tags. Personally I own many vehicles which are not plated or registered including a Toyota Land Cruiser that has not been plated since 1987 that is a trail-only rig; I load it on a trailer to take it out to go off-roading. In Ohio if a vehicle has tires on the road it must have a plate; if you use one of those tow dollies either the dolly must have a tag or the car must have a tag; if you drive a wrecker and tow cars then you have to display a "SPECIAL" tag to cover a towed vehicle with tires down and no tags.
Vehicles, outboard motors, trailers, boats are titled to make it difficult to steal and resell those items. It may surprise you to know that in some states, they are not requiring a title on vehicles that are older than a certain age (I think it is 20 years?) and they are sold bill-of-sale only. In my state of Ohio small trailers that are not house trailers are not required to be titled. Also IIRC, California for one, does not require a title to be registered with the BMV when it is changing ownership, you just sign on the next line on the back, when it is full, it has to be processed, but since the license tags go with the car, a new owner can just jump in and drive.

In my opinion I wouldn't mind if guns had TITLES; This would make FTF trades easier and less likely to wind up with a hot gun. Consider: IF you bought a new gun your FFL kept a copy of the ATF form 4473 and somewhere even though it theoretically is not catalogued or indexed it is still out there somewhere!
For those of you who feel that nobody should ever know what you have... great...I agree... If you sign your name on the back of the title (or not!) then just don't have the title updated and keep the gun. People do car papers like this every day, it's called "Title-Jumping".

But do you really think the gov't couldn't probably get a real good idea of who has guns based upon who buys ammo, reloading supplies, range time, etc. and studying bank records, credit card transactions, etc?

 

[Ira Aten]

On the issue of comparing cars being titled and licensed to guns being registered: Ask them if guns sho be required to be manufactued with air bags?

 

[bg]

Also, all cars should have controls put in them to limit speeds to 10mph (think of the children we'll save!!!)

I believe my old truck already has those controls, for it
surely does all it can not to go over 10mph.

Sorry going off-topic.

 

[Mitty]

Fact: You do not need a license to buy a car. You can buy as many as you want and drive them all you like on your own property without a license.
Fact: Cars are registered because they are (a) a source of tax revenue, (b) the object of fraud in some transactions, and (c) a high theft object. Thus we ask the government to track these.
Fact: There is no constitutionally guaranteed right to keep and bear automobiles, and thus they are subject to greater regulation than guns.
Fact: There are more guns in the U.S. than cars (228,000,000 guns and 207,754,000 automobiles). Yet you are 31 times more likely to be accidentally killed by a car than a gun according to the National Safety Council * . . . despite cars having been registered and licensed for almost 100 years.

* Automobiles estimates, Federal Highway Administration, October 1998. Firearm estimates, FBI Uniform Crime Statistics, 1996.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

The people and groups who advocate licensing and registration
of cars do not advocate the bans, prohibitions, buy-backs, or
"discretionary" type licensing laws promoted by the people who
advocate licensing and registration of guns.

The confiscation and destruction of 640,000 legally registered guns
in Australia could not have been accomplished if the guns had
not been registered nor their owners licensed.

Car licenses, marriage licenses etc. are shall-issue. Support for
gun control--like the Ayres-Donohue critique of Lott-Mustard--
support discretionary-issue over shall-issue gun licenses.

 

[profshadow]

I thought we were supposed to register our chainsaws.........

 

[ajax]

Personally I won't argue with those folks because more than likely nothing I say will convince them otherwise. What I do say is this " The 2a protects my firearm and no amendment protects your car so shut your hole and move on."

 

[ConstitutionCowboy]

Let's Make Sense.

Registering guns simply because we register autos is nothing more than tit for tat.

The keeping and bearing of arms is not supposed to be infringed. That means do not touch. Do not break or violate. Even taxing the sale of an arm infringes the right to keep and bear one. Taxing an arm could place the arm out of the reach of someone who could otherwise afford it. Registering an arm requires effort. It requires intrusion upon the owner of the arm. To intrude is to infringe.

Woody

"I swear to protect the Right to Keep and Bear Arms, but I am not trigger-happy. I am merely prepared and determined in its defense. It's a comfortable place to be. I don't suffer doubt." B.E.Wood

 

[v8fbird]

"no amendment protects your car so shut your hole and move on."




So your NATURAL, GOD GIVEN rights are summed up by the woefully inadequate "bill of rights"?????????

Or do you believe in any semblance of private property? Because if you do, then the state shouldn't have the right to license me for the privilege of exercising THAT right.

The RKBA is has its foundation on the right to property. So does the right to speech and press. Or how about the right to search and seizure. If you can't own your own home -- if it's not yours -- how do you have the right to withhold consent for a search and to deny entry to the police?

The bill of the rights is built on the fundamental theories laid out in the declaration of independence, countless other political writings of the time and in the constitutions of all 13 colonies (namely, the rights to life, liberty, and property). The bill of rights didn't include these because (I assume) our founders considered them self evident.

But apparently not self evident to you.


The right to private property is the foundation of society. I think you need to figure out your political theory and stop telling people to "shut their holes."

 

[k_semler]

"...no amendment protects your car so shut your hole and move on."

Yes there is, (indirectly).

Amendment IX
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

 

[Baba Louie]

Registration of anything is, as others have so eloquently pointed out previously, an accounting/auditing methodology allowing the various governments to receive and record taxes, thus a form of control required to maintain and/or improve it's status quo. Be it birth, real property, misc property, education/work effort, marraige, income or capital gains and finally death, your monies are desired, required and demanded. Basically, we are slaves. Tax-paying slaves with guns, cars, farms, factories, houses and boats. Toys.

We can all discuss the number of angels dancing on the head of a pin, and some delight in doing so, but most here realize that just about every modern form of society requires that darned "social contract" whereby we agree (voluntary or mandatory) to give up something in order to live and work together in some form of order/group as opposed to chaos/anarchy.

Don't got to like it, just got to do it.

I like to imagine a state where no public roads or right of way exist. "Excuse me Mr. v8fbird, may I have permission to cross your property to get to mine... again? Please sir? You want HOW MUCH MONEY THIS TIME? You don't even maintain a decent pathway sir. Ruts, holes, muddy quagmires, fording that creek that washed out three years ago. GOOD LORD MAN, what are you doing with all that money we've been giving you? We just need to go to town once a week, and if you do not agree to give up some form of right of way easement to allow that, I may be forced to take extreme measures as my services are necessary for the good of the community. OH! I see you've got a gun. Is that registered?" "On me huh? Hmmmm"

I suppose that registration of people and their possessions can be either a good thing or a bad thing, depending on whose Ox is being gored at the moment.

As for hiding behind the words of the Constitution or amended Bill of Rights... GET REAL! If the Executive, Legislative and Judicial branches of our government wipe their collective posteriors using those words, you can pretty well bet they're just meaningless symbols to those in power, yet who swear to defend and uphold them; symbols grasped at by us low-lifes as the end-all be-all, altruistic words of wisdom and promised justice, given to us by great men long ago... and so easily trampled and eviscarated by following opportunistic leaders elected and appointed into office, using monies gleaned from registering everything possible imagined.

For our own good.

(just feeling a little cynical now and then... it comes and it goes)

 

[ken grant]

Taxes

In my State,the taxes on cars,trucks,bikes,cows,pigs,horses go into the General Funds area and are used to help control our lives.
The various Permit fees do the same.
Motor Fuel taxes are used to support the building and upkeep of roads and public right-of- ways.

The Government(Local,State and Federal) hates it when they don't know everything you own or everything you do.

One other thought----Just think how much more in Sales Taxes have gone to Local and State Governments on just the increase in costs of Motor Fuels. This money also goes into the General Funds area. It is not used for roads or right-of-ways.

 

[armoredman]

A few thoughts - I live in Free AZ, so no registration or licensing, other than the shall issue CCW permit. When people who live in restrictive areas say they would like to see me have to register, it gets my back up - when are YOU going to do something in YOUR state to eliminate it? We here in AZ went so far as to recognize EVERY other state's permit, now, so even you in California can carry legally concealed here, while I can't carry concealed or open in Cali. Faugh. Haven't been to Disneyland in over 25 years, guess I don't need to go now, either.
Also, the 4473 form you fill out for an FFL sale is NOT a registration document - it stays at the dealer, and after 25 years, it's shredded. ATFE can "forward trace" through them, if the FFL knuckles under, but IIRC, ATFE got spanked for that more than once, and may have stopped trying to do that.
Of course, here in a free state, we can also do private party transfers, not have to go through a dealer like those poor souls in slave states.