If you live in a rough city, this is what you train for

[DetroitStudent]

Hey all,

I was shown this link last night by my cousin who is a cop. As I have been in a close call position before (I used to live in downtown Detroit) I wanted to share it with you.

The video is honestly very graphic. Thankfully the men viciously assaulted in the video survived but had extensive internal and external injuries. I hope that you watch this, keep in mind that death and crippling injury can occur from being assaulted like this. I think it should be stickied

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b9d_1296161950


I had a few questions/observations

1.) Notice the young man being attacked, his back arches up almost involuntarily. You can tell he's scared. He starts to run away, then catches himself and slows down. What would you have done/best thing to do in this scenario?
-d probably draw and run as fast as I could in the other direction.
-Should he have confronted the guys, yelled, expletives, etc really loudly, kind of surprise/catch them off balance?

2.) The strange thing about this attack was that it was videotaped. Looking at the tape now, it makes you sick to your stomach that someone was filming this. At the time, however, it might have been confusing.
-Think about it. Are these guys playing a trick/am I on candid camera/I couldnt get hurt that bad if they are filming it right?/etc?
I think committing a crime while videotaping it is becoming increasingly common....would it change your mind about using armed force?

3.) What would be the best thing to say on camera so that you could show you were in fear for your life and had a weapon to defend yourself? Maybe some officers might want to chime in with some suggestions?
-I could easily see some person saying "We were just gonna play with the guy, having fun with a video camera and he just started shooting".

4.) What if you were with a gf/wife? How would your reaction be different?

-DetroitStudent

 

[Grey_Mana]

Anyone thinking about attending VCU should watch this

My prayers are with the victim; I hope they catch those thugs and lock'em away forever. Clearly a hate crime and conspiracy to terrorize.

The video says 1300 East Cary Street, Richmond VA.
That's close to the VCU campus, a train station, the Capitol building, the James River, and the I-95 interstate. Reminds me to take the 295 beltway around Richmond, rather than driving through Richmond.

Interesting questions, if the victim had had a gun, when should he have drawn it, and when should he have shot? In retrospect, we know he should have drawn before they got close, because he wouldn't have been able to, after the beating started. In retrospect, we know that if they had kept coming (ie hadn't immediately ran), then he should have started shooting before they got close. [The adage is that one shouldn't draw a gun until one needs to use it, but theoretically there is a split second where the aggressor can stop threatening. So basically I think he should have drawn and shot as soon as he realized his life was in danger]

If it had been me, I would have wanted to have been carrying a regular capacity autoloading semiautomatic (not a 5-shot revolver), with at least one reload.

Without a gun, I would have started running, sooner and flat out. Without the benefit of hindsight, I worry that I wouldn't have started running soon enough. Fighting should never be completely discarded (never give up!), but that guy against those guys - there was no way he was going to trick, parlay, befriend, or fight his way out of that situation.


I agree that if he had had a gun, and had shot somebody before being beaten to the ground, the video would have been used against him and the legal system would make his life miserable.

 

[Corporal K]

Another thought here - I read about this in Dave Grossman's excellent book "On Killing" - when he started moving away from them, he triggered a chase response, not unlike a dog going after a cat.

Unarmed or not, when he saw them converging, he should have turned into them and let loose max violence on the nearest one. Running from a pack of savages will only land you a beating, but like any other predators they don't want to get hurt either. An aggressive "mess with me and I'll kill you" posture may have deterred them.

I have done it before with both black and white groups of thugs who sized me up and backed down by the look I gave them.

At the very least, he could have gotten a few licks in.

 

[Corporal K]

I could easily see some person saying "We were just gonna play with the guy, having fun with a video camera and he just started shooting"

If the victim had turned and drawn a gun on these idiots, it's not likely that they would have continued the attack. If they did attack him and he opened fire, the film might be an asset, IMO. An attack by multiple assailants meets the legal threshold for using deadly force in most states, I believe.

 

[Hanzo581]

Those punks would have scattered like roaches if that young man had a weapon and drawn. And he would have absolutely been justified if he had fired as they closed in...

 

[skoro]

If you jump into shark infested waters, expect to get bit.

 

[THE DRILL INSTRUCTOR]

Judging by how the cameraman was giggling the whole time, I would bet the thugs were high on something.

The first victim (in the dark red shirt) seemed to have smelled the trouble immediately, but for some reason didn't fully commit to running away.

My old First Sergeant had lots of sayings about fighting, and one was "If you know you can't win, run like a ", and that applies just as much on the streets as it does in the mountains of Afghanistan.

 

[Corporal K]

"If you know you can't win, run like a ", and that applies just as much on the streets as it does in the mountains of Afghanistan.

If you know you have a good chance at getting away. This victim tried to run too late.

 

[heeler]

Okay...First,obviously the guy was not armed and secondly he was greatly out numbered.
Unfortunately this young man also comes from a generation that generally is taught little or nothing about the art of self defense as through out most of his years at public school he would have been hung out to dry so to speak if he did fight.
That is light years from what a lot of young men learned in the days of their youth growing up in the 50's,60's,and 70's.
Hell he did not even ATTEMPT to fight back!!
In that given circumstance I too would have run like a rabbit to get away from this mob of degenerate pack animals,but at least I would have started punching,kicking,biting,and goughing once backed into it.
God help this generation of todays youth.

 

[Magno]

Those are not men. Those are animals in the most literal sense.

 

[killchain]

Hasn't this been in a few threads already?

 

[ryanrichmond]

If you jump into shark infested waters, expect to get bit.

That doesn't mean he shouldn't go out because he's afraid he'll get jumped. Richmond is bad but it certainly isn't Detroit. Cary Street is actually a rather nice street with a lot of expensive houses and "good" neighborhoods.
I'm not defending my town because I know it's got a reputation but it isn't as bad as some may think -- in my 27 years here, I've never been mugged nor has anyone I know and I go downtown fairly often. Heck I live near Ginter park, one of the worst places in Richmond for crime.

All this being said, I still carry. I may be lucky but I'm not stupid.

 

[brasos]

If I was in the situation those young men were in - unarmed and out numbered. I would run, the attackers would have a hard time running very far or fast with pants to big and below their waist.

Brasos

 

[earlthegoat2]

This is the first I have heard of Richmond being bad. Though I grew up just across the Detroit city limit line.

 

[Balrog]

I am too old and tired to run, and I don't want to have to fight that many people at once.

Most social problems can be solved with a Glock 19.

 

[jon86]

The beginning of the video, when they are "closing in" on their victim, appears very familiar, as I have been the victim of this type of violence. I was not armed when it happened to me. I didn't end up like the poor guy in this video though, because when I started getting hit, I ran. I carry now though, every day.

 

[Black Toe Knives]

My old First Sergeant had lots of sayings about fighting, and one was "If you know you can't win, run like a ", and that applies just as much on the streets as it does in the mountains of Afghanistan.

That is basic rule of war.

 

[Deltaboy1984]

Prayers for that youngman..

 

[skoro]

That doesn't mean he shouldn't go out because he's afraid he'll get jumped. Richmond is bad but it certainly isn't Detroit. Cary Street is actually a rather nice street with a lot of expensive houses and "good" neighborhoods.

I don't know Richmond, only passed it on the interstate a few times. But from the video, it looked like the area was a bunch of warehouses. Late at night, obviously gang infested. Looked like a good neighborhood to avoid after dark.

I'm just sayin'...

 

[ryanrichmond]

Richmond reuses old warehouses by revamping them into loft apartments. They don't upgrade the fascia but so much in order to uphold the historical look of the city so what looks like old nasty warehouses might actually be homes.
It's hard for me to tell where exactly this video was shot so I can't say for sure what kind of location he was in at the time.

Edit: Ok it said 1700 block of East cary in Shockoe Bottom. I'll admit it's a sketch area to be in late at night but generally speaking, it's not a bad part of town. Richmond is funny that way. You could be in a fine area during the day but once the sun goes down you have to be alert. That particular area is old warehouses, not homes. There are a few of clubs and bars down that way thought and he may have just been walking back to his car from a bar.

 

[skoro]

That's where situational awareness plays its part. Don't put yourself in situations where scumbags hang out and you're not likely to be assaulted by scumbags.

 

[petey]

looks like down in the bottom......Richmond has always had bad crime area's....I lived there for 15 years and know of many first hand accounts of people being shot/attacked...
the area where this is supposed to take place is known as shockoe bottom....there are a bunch of bars and restaurants there....a couple of blocks up is the church hill area....When I lived there, the church hill area had some really bad spots.....
the thugs would walk diagonal across the street in front of your car almost asking you to say something or hit them...
My friend and I would call this the church hill strut...
Anyway back to the video...It was pretty disturbing to me....they could have possibly been coming from some of the bar areas, so no guns...
I am always aware of my surroundings, and will run from any fight given the chance...
As Skoro said about shark infested waters......I try not to get into situations where I am walking on deserted streets late at night...

 

[Ledgehammer]

I thought I heard one of the attackers say in the beginning " what's up now? You talkin all that s##t" it kind of leads me to believe they may have had a word exchange prior to the attack. IDK know I used to go clubbing downtown when I was in college. It's fine during the day but a complete hood after dark. I would have ran if I wasn't armed.

I've been attacked by a gange before. Since I was way outnumbered and unarmed at the time, I picked one guy and went nuts on him. I got hit in the back with 2 sticks and a beer bottle but it definitely threw them off enough for me to run after the initial exchange.

I can't say if that would have worked for this guy but running may have been an option if alerted early enough. Like somebody else said I doubt they wouldn't be able to catch me and hold their pants up.

 

[junyo]

Richmond's not that bad, but the Bottom on the weekends was fight central back in the day, college kids mixing with ghetto kids mixing with bikers mixing with booze; we never went there only one or two deep after midnight. But it's been almost 10 years since I've been down there.

And "If you know you can't win, run like a " is exactly right, early and often. When the law allows you to carry a weapon, and you don't avail yourself, and you don't have the sense to talk your way out, or sprint your way out, the universe is only going to cut you so many breaks.

 

[MannytheGreek]

To the commenter above, I dont think the guys beaten up in the video said anything to the attackers. It just doesnt make sense. They dont look like they'd start something as they didnt even put up a fight when they were attacked.

It's strange. You *knew* that something is gonna happen to those guys who were attacked. Literally a visceral understanding of what was going on. It wasnt anything they said necessarily. Would defensive action taken in such a situation be warranted? I guess maybe. Keep in mind who your jury is though in a place like that....Im smart enough to know that I cant handle prison.

To be honest, I wish someone with experience in this field could see this video- Massad Ayoob etc and give his input.

Thank God a female wasnt present or this situation could have gotten ALOT worse.

-MannytheGreek