How many of you get annoyed when people fire a shot take their rifle out of the should look down work the bolt throw it back up and line the second shot up? If you are going to use a bt gun at least practice how to work the action with the gun shouldered
If you prefer bolt action..Why?
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BridgeTooFar
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I own both. I hunt with bolt actions (with the exception of a 10/22 that I use on occasion for squirrels, etc.), but I like going to the range with the semi's more.
I just grew up hunting with bolt actions. Semi-auto high powered rifles (like a BAR, etc.) are accurate enough, but it's just not my thing.
I just grew up hunting with bolt actions. Semi-auto high powered rifles (like a BAR, etc.) are accurate enough, but it's just not my thing.
DeepSouth
Random Guy
I have bolt guns for hunting, and other practical things.
I have semi's for fun.
I have semi's for fun.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
Now, now, conhntr, the whole idea is to just use one shot, right? And when you do that, what's the big hurry about cycling the action?
When Bambi or Ol' Wily is laid out deader'n a hammer, I figure that the sling is more important than the bolt handle.
When Bambi or Ol' Wily is laid out deader'n a hammer, I figure that the sling is more important than the bolt handle.
usmc1371
Member
I grew up hunting with bolt guns and plinking with a 10-22 so I guess you could say I like both and always have. Big game= bolt gun for me cause thats the way dad does it. Now for varmints I like my AR, no kick, no body movement when looking for a second shot or another target, heavy as hell makes for a nice stable gun. On the accurate end of things I have to say my AR is quite a bit more accurate than any bolt gun I own or have ever shot but it cost many times more money than my bolt guns. I don't mind that my ruger 300wm ain't a sub 1/2 inch gun, elk just ain't all that small. The Les Baer super varmint .204 AR IS a sub 1/2 inch gun but the targets it is intended for are quite a bit smaller than elk.
jimmyraythomason
Member
Why should some-one else's shooting style annoy me?
Why is some-one else's shooting style wrong if it works for them?
Welding Rod
Member
If you want reasonably light weight, high power, and accuracy (all three) an autoloader usually isn't an option.
the .22lr is a perfect example, because most folks i know have more than one and have both a semi-auto and a bolt action example. when i was younger, the semi-auto was king. burning through bullets and perforating the target excessively was the whole point. it was only after learning the pride of being able to place shots one on top of the other, or hitting a target with the first shot, that i really came back to the bolt action. each shot is an event unto itself.
the same lessons apply to CF rifles and learning it has saved me a lot of money by not trying to make one rifle do everything. for me, the AK platform does everything up close and a bolt action does everything the AK isn't accurate enough to do.
another advantage of the bolt action of the semi-auto is that there are fewer limitations to the power of the chamberings. my two favorite CF chamberings are the 6.5x55mm and the .375 H&H Magnum...neither is available in a semi-auto
the same lessons apply to CF rifles and learning it has saved me a lot of money by not trying to make one rifle do everything. for me, the AK platform does everything up close and a bolt action does everything the AK isn't accurate enough to do.
another advantage of the bolt action of the semi-auto is that there are fewer limitations to the power of the chamberings. my two favorite CF chamberings are the 6.5x55mm and the .375 H&H Magnum...neither is available in a semi-auto
longdayjake
Member
I use them both. Every now and then I get to thinking that I don't like semi-autos anymore but then I go and shoot one for a while and love them all over again. Every now and then I get to thinking I don't need bolt actions any more but then I go and shoot one for a while and love them all over again. It may seem unnatural or some crime against nature but I'm bi-actional and proud of it. Anyone wanna have a parade with me?
sarduy
Member
i own the best of both worlds... an manual car and semi-auto rifles
JWF III
Member
Different tools for different jobs. There is some overlap on what they can do.
A better comparison would be a hammer (bolt action) to a nail gun (SA). They can both drive a nail, but try using a nailgun as a hammer.
Wyman
A better comparison would be a hammer (bolt action) to a nail gun (SA). They can both drive a nail, but try using a nailgun as a hammer.
Wyman
bhk
Member
Several reasons I like bolt guns:
1. Greater variety of calibers.
2. Ease of carry. Extended magazines really get in the way of field carry, in my opinion.
3. Better triggers are the norm. I like short, crisp, and light pulls with no overtravel. This CAN be done on an AR, but at what cost? My bench .22 bolt gun has a safe TWO OUNCE trigger pull (yes, I admit paying a lot for that). Most of my bolt guns have crisp 1.5 to 3 pound triggers at no added expense (other than my own time).
4. Nice light bolt actions available with plenty of power. My Remington Model 7 is a prime example. Try to find a 7-08 (or any other medium/long action cartridge)
in an AR at the same weight.
5. Ergonomics. A well made bolt gun comes up like a fine bird gun. Most military style autos are very ungainly (to me). A well set up AR is an exception.
4. STYLE!!! Good bolt guns can be very beautiful. Made with fine walnut and blued steel, they can be gorgeous! There is just more class in bolt guns.
All that said, I have had a 10/22 for almost 40 years. It is a great gun that I have fired thousands of rounds through and bagged much small game with. I also have started using a Remington R-15 (made by Bushmaster) for some of my coyote hunting. After replacing the factory trigger, I find it an almost perfect predator gun. I won't give up my bolt .223 for it, but I am learning to appreciate it.
I think that some of our preferences in guns are age related. The youngsters really take to the semi-auto centerfires, and the percentage of non-hunting gun owners is increasing. What we expect from our guns also seems to be changing. When I go to the range I tend to see the old farts (like me) trying to place all our bullets in one hole at 100 yards, while some of the younger guys are down at the 25 yard line with their military-style semis tearing human shaped targets to pieces. I can be totally happy firing 20-40 rounds down range, and that may take me an hour or more (even when shooting my AR coyote gun). Down at the 25 yard line, these guys are shooting than many rounds in a minute. Different strokes for different folks. It is all shooting. Have fun.
1. Greater variety of calibers.
2. Ease of carry. Extended magazines really get in the way of field carry, in my opinion.
3. Better triggers are the norm. I like short, crisp, and light pulls with no overtravel. This CAN be done on an AR, but at what cost? My bench .22 bolt gun has a safe TWO OUNCE trigger pull (yes, I admit paying a lot for that). Most of my bolt guns have crisp 1.5 to 3 pound triggers at no added expense (other than my own time).
4. Nice light bolt actions available with plenty of power. My Remington Model 7 is a prime example. Try to find a 7-08 (or any other medium/long action cartridge)
in an AR at the same weight.
5. Ergonomics. A well made bolt gun comes up like a fine bird gun. Most military style autos are very ungainly (to me). A well set up AR is an exception.
4. STYLE!!! Good bolt guns can be very beautiful. Made with fine walnut and blued steel, they can be gorgeous! There is just more class in bolt guns.
All that said, I have had a 10/22 for almost 40 years. It is a great gun that I have fired thousands of rounds through and bagged much small game with. I also have started using a Remington R-15 (made by Bushmaster) for some of my coyote hunting. After replacing the factory trigger, I find it an almost perfect predator gun. I won't give up my bolt .223 for it, but I am learning to appreciate it.
I think that some of our preferences in guns are age related. The youngsters really take to the semi-auto centerfires, and the percentage of non-hunting gun owners is increasing. What we expect from our guns also seems to be changing. When I go to the range I tend to see the old farts (like me) trying to place all our bullets in one hole at 100 yards, while some of the younger guys are down at the 25 yard line with their military-style semis tearing human shaped targets to pieces. I can be totally happy firing 20-40 rounds down range, and that may take me an hour or more (even when shooting my AR coyote gun). Down at the 25 yard line, these guys are shooting than many rounds in a minute. Different strokes for different folks. It is all shooting. Have fun.
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I heart the bolt action. It can be very fast. I'm no speedster, but my father and grandfather trained me to work the bolt while the gun is still at my shoulder.
I have shot deer and had them crumbel in a sack of bones, dead before the body hit the ground.
I've shot deer in the same spot, and had them fall down and then get back up. Prepared for such, I always reload my gun after firing, and when the deer got up, I put it back down.
I shot an elk twice through the same hole, but with two exit wounds, at 190 yards cause after the first shot it just arched its back (i hit a rib) and jumped a foot and stood there. The second shot dropped it, though both did the same amount of damage to the lungs.
I've also just purchased an Armalite AR-10 and got a deer with that this year. It was perfect for hunting in the trees where the shots are mostly under 200 yards or even under 50 in the tight parts.
Did I feel faster with the ar-10? yes. Does that increase of speed make my bolt too slow for hunting and follow-up shots, or multiple shots at different coyotes? No.
I have shot deer and had them crumbel in a sack of bones, dead before the body hit the ground.
I've shot deer in the same spot, and had them fall down and then get back up. Prepared for such, I always reload my gun after firing, and when the deer got up, I put it back down.
I shot an elk twice through the same hole, but with two exit wounds, at 190 yards cause after the first shot it just arched its back (i hit a rib) and jumped a foot and stood there. The second shot dropped it, though both did the same amount of damage to the lungs.
I've also just purchased an Armalite AR-10 and got a deer with that this year. It was perfect for hunting in the trees where the shots are mostly under 200 yards or even under 50 in the tight parts.
Did I feel faster with the ar-10? yes. Does that increase of speed make my bolt too slow for hunting and follow-up shots, or multiple shots at different coyotes? No.
ByAnyMeans
Member
I keep my bolts in .308 and my semi's in 7.62x39. Just how I do it.
That's *exactly* how I shoot.
*bang*
1. drop gun to half position
2. open bolt, eject empty
3. gun all the way to to relaxed position
4. 3 slow, measured breaths
5. close bolt, raise rifle (almost 1 step)
6. Settle, breathing, find NPoA
7. hold on a half-breath
8. align, squeeze (or slap, if a target rifle)
9. *bang*
10. repeat
Every shot is performed with the same sequence. Consistency.
If you hold that gun up and fire fire fire fire, each subsequent shot find you more and more tired, wobbly, and out of position.
-Daizee
lost river rat
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- Dec 8, 2009
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- 34
For rim fires, autos are great it accurate enough for the job. For big game, I hunted with Rem autos for over 20 years. No failures and had one that shot better with one sweet load than all of my unmodified bolt guns. I now hunt exclusively with bolts. I did shoot at least two bucks with the auto I don't think I would have got with a bolt gun. I finally sold the last Rem 7400 even though I won a lot of bets with it due to its accuracy.
I now use all bolts. Easier to reload for, less bulky, less weight, generally less finicky. Biggest reasons are weight and bulk. I got so I hated to drag my auto through the woods when I could use a compact 7lb bolt gun. My next gun would be light weight single shot so I shed 4 inches of action.
Autos required small base dies, care to not to exceed the port pressure with slow powders (actions are strong, it is port pressure not peak pressure that is a problem), and shift point of impact a lot with different loads. I just tried to work on a new SX2 in 300 Win bought for long range hunting. Grouped 4" at 100. Nothing to be done about it.
After a while, you rely on your first shot more than the depth of your magazine. After hunting with a muzzle loader quite a bit, the auto just didn't make any sense to me anymore. If I don't think I can make a clean kill, I dont shoot. The follow up shots I have made with bolt guns were pleanty fast enough and I barely remember cycling the action. I will say hunting with the auto dared me to shoot when I shouldn't 'cause I had a 4 rounds to spray if I missed. The bolt gun doesn't do that to me. I hate being a part of drive and hearing a magazine of rapid fire. Have never seen a deer tagged from it, but I have tried to track ones with leaks in them only only to loose them.
The Rem pump is great 'between gun and very popular around here.
I now use all bolts. Easier to reload for, less bulky, less weight, generally less finicky. Biggest reasons are weight and bulk. I got so I hated to drag my auto through the woods when I could use a compact 7lb bolt gun. My next gun would be light weight single shot so I shed 4 inches of action.
Autos required small base dies, care to not to exceed the port pressure with slow powders (actions are strong, it is port pressure not peak pressure that is a problem), and shift point of impact a lot with different loads. I just tried to work on a new SX2 in 300 Win bought for long range hunting. Grouped 4" at 100. Nothing to be done about it.
After a while, you rely on your first shot more than the depth of your magazine. After hunting with a muzzle loader quite a bit, the auto just didn't make any sense to me anymore. If I don't think I can make a clean kill, I dont shoot. The follow up shots I have made with bolt guns were pleanty fast enough and I barely remember cycling the action. I will say hunting with the auto dared me to shoot when I shouldn't 'cause I had a 4 rounds to spray if I missed. The bolt gun doesn't do that to me. I hate being a part of drive and hearing a magazine of rapid fire. Have never seen a deer tagged from it, but I have tried to track ones with leaks in them only only to loose them.
The Rem pump is great 'between gun and very popular around here.
oldfool
Member
my first ever bolt action was a 20 gauge shotgun with a 2 shell 'clip'
(ok... waiting now for somebody to whine about 'clip' vs mag....)
you would be surprised about how fast a young boy can learn to throw three shotshells at a running rabbit, working a bolt, gun on shoulder
(learning to need only ONE took only just a little bit a little longer, but whether or not another was needed, never was no big deal skill trick to shoot fast, nor to shoot fast and hit multiple targets on the move with a shotgun)
watch Tequila shoot a lever action, or Jerry M shoot a revolver, or Bob Munden with a SA
speed is speed, speed and accuracy is shooter skill and practice... it NOT hardware
speed... you do it or don't do it, depending on what you are shooting at and why
I have seen what people like Daizee can do, with that s-l-o-w style
prepared to be seriously impressed when you see that !
extreme few semi-auto people can do that like those silly-wet folks can do that
(some can, for real, but they are vastly outnumbered by bolt shooters who can do)
admiring semi-autos is no reason to disrespect all others
I am beginning to wonder just how many of the under 30 crowd actually think everything else is so outdated as to be silly and useless ???
black is good, but black magic is fantasy land
having more than one is half the fun of firearms, and that includes owning as many different action types as you can
buy some, try some
no shortage of posters in this thread who have done that, and recognize the value of all options
(ok... waiting now for somebody to whine about 'clip' vs mag....)
you would be surprised about how fast a young boy can learn to throw three shotshells at a running rabbit, working a bolt, gun on shoulder
(learning to need only ONE took only just a little bit a little longer, but whether or not another was needed, never was no big deal skill trick to shoot fast, nor to shoot fast and hit multiple targets on the move with a shotgun)
watch Tequila shoot a lever action, or Jerry M shoot a revolver, or Bob Munden with a SA
speed is speed, speed and accuracy is shooter skill and practice... it NOT hardware
speed... you do it or don't do it, depending on what you are shooting at and why
I have seen what people like Daizee can do, with that s-l-o-w style
prepared to be seriously impressed when you see that !
extreme few semi-auto people can do that like those silly-wet folks can do that
(some can, for real, but they are vastly outnumbered by bolt shooters who can do)
admiring semi-autos is no reason to disrespect all others
I am beginning to wonder just how many of the under 30 crowd actually think everything else is so outdated as to be silly and useless ???
black is good, but black magic is fantasy land
having more than one is half the fun of firearms, and that includes owning as many different action types as you can
buy some, try some
no shortage of posters in this thread who have done that, and recognize the value of all options
dagger dog
Member
The tortise,or the hare? Just a silly thought, it doesn't work the same with shotguns, also a 1911 will get beat in a 5 shot race by its older SAA brother. In accuracy and reliability why was the Garand chosen over a semi auto loader version of the Springfield
. In accuracy and reliability why was the Garand chosen over a semi auto loader version of the Springfieldoldfool
Member
not sure what the was about
but yes, the real deal speedmasters can beat a 1911 time on 5-shots, quite easily; they do not have to wait on the slide
(and last I heard, any other semi-auto operated by a finger)
it is not hardware
don't believe me, that's ok
Google up Munden and Miculek
if you can find somebody who can beat their time on shots fired/hit with a 1911 or Glock, let us know
PS
if looking for speed in a rifle/carbine
spend the next 30 years trying to catch up with Tequila, or just buy an AR
(OP quite obviously was implying that bolt actions are so pitiful slow as to be ridiculous, or at least that is how most everybody shoots them, hence they are silly people... so s-l-o-w, not so)
me, I would buy the AR
(or a licensed full auto, mebbe an American 180, Dick Casull's design)
I never said different
I just said people who think anything that does not have "a-u-t-o" included in the label means "tortoise" speed, could benefit from a broader perspective
bolts and levers and pumps and DA revolvers and SA revolvers can be run a lot faster than some folks know
there are a lot of people in this world who can shoot a DA revolver faster (and hit) than most joe average folks can with a semi-auto pistola
not many can with a SA, but some can
(where is David E when you need him ??)
was aboutbut yes, the real deal speedmasters can beat a 1911 time on 5-shots, quite easily; they do not have to wait on the slide
(and last I heard, any other semi-auto operated by a finger)
it is not hardware
don't believe me, that's ok
Google up Munden and Miculek
if you can find somebody who can beat their time on shots fired/hit with a 1911 or Glock, let us know
PS
if looking for speed in a rifle/carbine
spend the next 30 years trying to catch up with Tequila, or just buy an AR
(OP quite obviously was implying that bolt actions are so pitiful slow as to be ridiculous, or at least that is how most everybody shoots them, hence they are silly people... so s-l-o-w, not so)
me, I would buy the AR
(or a licensed full auto, mebbe an American 180, Dick Casull's design)
I never said different
I just said people who think anything that does not have "a-u-t-o" included in the label means "tortoise" speed, could benefit from a broader perspective
bolts and levers and pumps and DA revolvers and SA revolvers can be run a lot faster than some folks know
there are a lot of people in this world who can shoot a DA revolver faster (and hit) than most joe average folks can with a semi-auto pistola
not many can with a SA, but some can
(where is David E when you need him ??)
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AirForceShooter
Member
Ilike a bolt because each shot is unique.
You can't walk the rounds intot he target.
As for unshouldering the rifle after each shot why not?
I want to look in my spotting scope.
AFS
You can't walk the rounds intot he target.
As for unshouldering the rifle after each shot why not?
I want to look in my spotting scope.
AFS
scythefwd
Member
AirForceShooter - the thinking behind not breaking cheek weld is that you never get it exactly the same twice, which means you aren't looking at the iron sights the same way twice, and you aren't holding the gun for the follow up shot exactly the same way. That means you aren't as likely to duplicate the shot. I haven't heard people gripe about it except when training for small bore competitions. I have never heard it mentioned (except maybe in this thread) in reference to guns with scopes.
wvshootist
Member
I dont have any centerfire autoloaders. I am a big fan od lever action rifles but I also have several bolt action guns too. I amy get a semi action one day. It will probably be a 35 Whelen or 30-06 hunting carbine.
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