When are each of the actions preferred?

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Skribs

Skribs

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Barring personal preference (in my case, semi-auto) in what cases are each of the repeater actions: semi-auto, bolt, lever, and pump, preferred in a rifle?

I've been reading a bit on the subject, but I wanted to see the opinions people on here had. My biggest question would be why lever or pump-action would be preferred to semi-auto, and what the advantages/distadvantages of lever action compared to pump.

Please note, I understand the general idea of "I like the lever better", but when is it PRACTICALLY better? This could include anything tangible, such as cost, availability, etc.
 
Barring personal preference (in my case, semi-auto) in what cases are each of the repeater actions: semi-auto, bolt, lever, and pump, preferred in a rifle?
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you really cant....

if i prefer XXXX action gun over all others....i am inherently going to shoot that gun better than anything else.

but for 99% of shooting, the choice of action really doesnt matter mechanically.....

there is also the matter of caliber choice.....some rounds are not well suited to be fired out of a semiauto rifle (whether it be shear size, or cartridge design which inhibits feeding), which is where lever actions and bolt actions come into play.


one of the few places it does matter is precision shooting. match specifications for action type aside......you are going to get better accuracy out of a bolt action rifle over a semi. this is because match chambers are often cut fairly tight, which could lead to feeding problems with semi auto rifles.
 
Nobody has yet invented a flatter repeater to carry in a saddle scabbard then a lever-action 30-30.

The advantage is you don't have a bolt handle wearing a hole in your leg all day.

The advantage over a pump, besides being much slimmer through the forend is, it doesn't try to load itself when you stuff it in the saddle scabbard.

rc
 
RC, very good points. I actually laughed thinking about a pump trying to load itself.

M-Cameron, good point on the match trigger.

So when is a pump an advantage?
 
I've always heard that lever-action guns were best for mounted shooting, probably for all the reasons rcmodel lists.

I think bolts can be made stronger than lever-actions, hence why very few lever-action rifles chambered for much more than 30-30. So I'd say for any super-high power rifles, bolts are the way to go. The other advantage of a bolt-action is it might be easier to shoot and reload from a low prone or covered position. With a lever you have to have more vertical clearance, or turn the rifle sideways to operate the lever.

Pump may have a slight speed advantage over the others, and a compromise of width between the two. Not sure how they stack up strength-wise. I think pump-rifles are weird personally. I like me a pump shotgun, pump rifle not so much.

Of course, if someone is an ace with any system, they will be able to adapt and overcome any situation with their platform of choice. And everyone has their "personal preferences."
 
It seems to me pumps were always mostt popular in the deer woods back east.

They can be chambered for more powerful cartridges then most lever-actions, but not all lever-actions.

They were never real popular here in Kansas or further west, because they are not noted for the long range accuracy of a bolt action, or as mentioned, they don't ride a horse near as handy as a flat lever-gun.

rc
 
I always considered a pump better for the person who likes a pump shotgun.

Lever actions are traditional repeaters are generally trim and fast for followup shots.

Also the lever action was the first reliable repeating rifle after the revolver.

I prefer the feel and shooting of my Savage 99 to my Rem 700, both in .308.

The 99 will hit anything I'm big enought to point it at. The 700 will let me get a little bold on distance.
 
I'm thinking Bolt Action has fewest moving parts, most reliable (the two usually being related). It also allows for a better 'feel' for the feed and is pretty mechanically efficient.

A Pump Action does not require braking ones grip with either hand, but requires a grosser action.

A lever requires breaking contact with the grip, but leaves the support hand in place- but has to make a lot happen in a smaller area inside the action.
 
Semi-autos are not allowed for hunting in some areas (like the whole Commonwealth of PA ... at least for now).

Pumps are not great for shooting off a bench, prone, or many rested positions as the motion to chamber a new round requires breaking the position completely, but they are faster for most folks to cycle than a bolt-action, and can be surprisingly accurate for a hunting rifle.

The most common types of lever-action require flat-nosed (or the new polymer tipped) bullets due to the magazine design. But, they are fast to operate and a bit more forgiving in a rested position as you only have to break the firing grip to cycle them. Some can handle fairly stout cartridges, and some can't. Some of the lighter-built and older designs intended for firing revolver cartridges are amazingly fast-cycling in the right hands.

Bolt actions do hold the crown for the most inherently accurate platform when built very well and operated with great care, but when discussing "average" rifles used in hunting or other field conditions, those differences are often not so great as the general opinion holds. They also offer the easiest adaptation to the widest variety of cartridges, including the most powerful rounds available (excluding some obsolete monsters like the 4-bore cartridge.) They CAN also be operated quite quickly, but that takes a little practice.
 
I am a bit shocked at the quality of the "lever action" replies here.

First off, the lever rifle is "flat", easy to pack, stow away. A seasoned lever rifle man can deliver as much aimed ("aimed" is the key word here) fire as any magazine fed rifle (until the mag runs dry).

But then again, any seasoned lever rifle man can keep his rifle "topped off" on the go, either fully or near fully loaded except for times of sustained rapid fire.

Thanks to Hollywood, the lever rifle has become iconic as a "good" gun used to defend the home and family, etc as opposed to them nasty black rifles, the sight of which cause the strong to quail and the sheeple to wet their nappies.

All joking aside, having been in a couple of post-shtf natural disasters. What I saw first hand was the guys wearing cowboy hats and baseball caps with lever rifles and shotguns were left alone by the "authorities" while the camo-clad paramilitary guys were detained and frequently disarmed. Right or wrong, its a matter of perception.

Lever guns are at a handicap from a prone position unless you rest it on something i.e. a saddle (LOL - sorry, couldn't resist).

Bolt guns are slow to cycle without lots of practice, but they lock up far tighter and the actions are stronger. They're also more accurate than other actions.

Pump actions are FAST the action only needs to move a fraction of and inch more than the cartridge is long.

These days a bolt gun almost always comes from the factory without sights. Its then useless until several hundreds of dollars worth of scope is mounted on it. And scopes don't survive being dropped, knocked, kicked over, etc. Lever rifles don't have that problem - PERIOD. OTOH, while they last, the bolt gun's precision cannot be beaten! Frankly, I use my bolt guns for the most precise, aimed, slow fire shots (on game).

For all the rest of my uses (home and ranch defense, camp gun, trail use, carrying across the ATV forks, etc) lever rifles are my choice and have been for well over 55 years now. In fact, my favorite lever guns are the 16" Trapper models and I have both trappers and longer barreled rifles in all of my favorite calibers.

YMMV
 
While I have a strong preference for one action type over all others, I also own and use at least a couple of each type. Maybe I'm wrong but I like to think that I can still be objective about it.

The boltgun can be made more accurate than any other repeater. That does not automatically make them so. They can also typically handle higher pressures.

Semi-autos have an advantage of speed and that is it. They are typically heavier than other repeaters, less accurate than a boltgun and those magazines don't feed themselves.

Leverguns are faster to operate than bolts and give up nothing for aimed, repeat fire to the auto. The magazine can also be easily topped off and that is no small advantage. They also tend to have flat-sided receivers, carry wonderfully and balance very well. Some of us also prefer an exposed hammer to a safety. They tend to suffer slightly from lesser accuracy but I have two that shoot sub-MOA and boltguns that do not. They are typically restricted to blunt-nosed bullets and that affects effective range but this tends to be greatly exaggerated by boltgun fanciers. There are obviously exceptions as the Savage 99, Winchester 88 and 1895 chamber pointy cartridges.
 
The way I would break it down?

Combat: Semi Auto.

Hunting/Range/Target: Bolt.

When class matters: Lever.

When you want to be the special snowflake: Pump.

Tournaments: Whatever they decide for whatever reasons they want.








This is all tongue-in-cheek by the way. :D
 
Bolts are the simplest action. Generally the most rugged and reliable and can be the lightest of all repeaters. Although depending on how the rifle is put together they are not always so. They are usuaslly the most accurate everything else being equal.

Semi's are faster for repeat shots. Modern semi's are amazingly relible if good quality ammo is used. Most hunting semi's tend to be a little less accurate, but many AR's are provng to be pretty close to a bolt rifle.

Pumps are the 2nd fastest behind semi's for aimed repeat shots. Although not as popular they have earned a reputation for being pretty reliable and accurate. They sort of split the difference between bolt guns and semi's in both reliability and accuracy. I'd rate the modern levers such as Browning, Sako, and Savage very close to the pumps in performance, but they are just slightly slower for repeat shots.

Levers are the most misunderstood of all actions. I'm talking traditional Marlins and Winchesters here. We all have a lot of preconcieved notions based on all the cowboy movies we've seen. Fact is they were all but non existant in the old west. They only became popular after starring in all the western movies starting in the 1920's-1970's.

I like them though and own more than any other type, and would say they are my favorite, but they are the least practical. If you actually start putting them on some scales they are the heaviest of all guns despite the "legand". They are the most complex, least reliable, have the weakest extraction and are generally the least accurate.

They are also just about the slowest for "aimed" repeat fire, in a virtual tie with bolt guns. Like the actors in the old western movies, if we just try to shoot them as fast as possible without actually bothering to aim they are slightly faster than a bolt gun. I can get off 3 shots with my 30-30's in 1.4 seconds, 1.8 seconds with a bolt rifle. But when I put up a 9" paper plate at 50 yards and try to put 3 shots in it as fast as possible I'm slightly faster with a bolt gun, 4.08 seconds vs 4.23 with a 30-30. It takes longer to recover from the recoil and get your sights back on target with either than it takes to work the action.

All work. A pump is the only type I don't currently own, but I've had them in the past.
 
When I can see a lever action in .308 or greater hit multiple to dozens 500+ yards faster than a semi-auto; let me know.
 
I use semi auto for all situations except for when I want to be really really quite the 22 bolt gun with surpressor comes out of hiding.
 
For this we have to step back in time.

I think about the 1910s and 1920s.

At that time a shooter would have a couple different versions of lever actions, (Winchester 1894, but also the Winchester 1895 with a box magazine to take more modern bullets, and the Savage 99) a few different pump action rifles (Remington model 14, Colt Lightning, ???) and a few different semi-auto rifles (Remington model 8, Winchester model 1910 and 1915


Bolt guns were a bit slower to fire, and handled the most potent cartridges (aside from side-by-sides) and had something of a European flair.

The semi-autos of that era could shoot as fast as you could pull the trigger...but this wasn't really much faster than a guy could work a lever gun or pump. The semi-autos of the day were quite heavy, didn't have a big capacity, handled ammo with roughly the same power level as a 30-30 or less, and could be quite finicky.


This leaves lever gun vs pump gun.

between these two I don't think mechanical preference one way or another matters so much. I do know that Colt looked at getting into lever guns so Winchester threatened to get into the handgun business, causing Colt to back down.

Colt did come out with a pump action 'lightning' carbine. While it was more error-prone than lever actions of the day it could simply have been due to not having worked with and tweaked the design as much. Remington offered the Model 14 and that was a very well thought of gun.

I think a hunter choosing a pump vs a lever gun was really probably more a factor of brand loyalty than anything. Just like you have Ford guys and Chevy guys, you had Winchester guys and Remington guys. (As well as Savage guys and Marlin guys)
 
Combat/defense - Semi

Extended range hunting - Bolt

Close hunting with follow-up shots (like hunting over dogs) - Lever/pump (I like a .30-30 lever for stalking up on hogs)

For still hunting (out of a blind) - Any
 
They are also just about the slowest for "aimed" repeat fire, in a virtual tie with bolt guns.
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Pure, unadulterated nonsense. We've been here before, maybe you're still doing it wrong???


Fact is they were all but non existant in the old west.
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More fallacies.


And I got my perspective from shooting, not movies. :rolleyes:


When I can see a lever action in .308 or greater hit multiple to dozens 500+ yards faster than a semi-auto; let me know.
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Ever try it???
 
Lever guns tend to be very fast and lightweight. Most equivalent bolt-action rifles are actually heavier. That's their main advantage, when size and carry eight are at a premium. Their speed also rivals semis. If I had to choose one rifle to carry around all day, it would probably be a lever gun.

High-end semis can often rival bolt guns for accuracy, but in larger calibers this comes with a significant weight penalty. The AR-10, for example, is typically around 10 pounds. A bolt gun in the same caliber is typically between 6 and 8 pounds. Unless you're the Russians, of course; their large-caliber semi and full-auto rifles typically weigh significantly less than equivalent Western offerings.

Pumps aren't that useful for centerfire rifles. They add a lot of forward weight, along with weight in general. They're also rather complex and tend to be weaker actions. There's a reason you don't see very many of them.
 
The pump, lever and bolt have the advantages of allowing for a very light weight rifle, which comes in handy for hunting, especially in thick brush or something where you want a nice maneuverable rifle that points quick and carries easy.

Also, as was mentioned, certain rounds do not feed well in a semi auto, like rounds with steep shoulders.

The bolt has the advantage of allowing for a very rigid and solid action, and tends to have the quickest lock time. This makes it the best choice for precision work. This is why most sniper rifles are still bolt actions.

The semi has the obvious advantages of quicker follow up shots. This is definitely advantageous any time you are dealing with targets that shoot back.
 
I beg to differ with holdencm9 that they can not be made for heavier than 30-30, mine's a 35 Remington. The single advantage of a pump over a lever action is that you do not have to take your hands off the rifle to pump a new round into the chamber or your eye off the target, it can be done with a lever action, but your finger comes off the trigger to activate the lever, not so in a pump action rifle, simplely slide the bolt back and slide it foward with a new round in the chamber is ready to go, just faster.

Jim


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Jim243, the problem, though, is that movement at the front of the gun creates more disruption than movement at the rear. It's a simple concept of leverage, with your shoulder acting as the hinge. The front of the gun is not as well braced, and movement there inflicts more leverage so a little bit of pressure there creates a greater overall disruption. The rear of the gun is braced against your shoulder, so working the lever vertically does not do much to affect your aim. Additionally, leverage dictates that you would have to push harder, albeit over a shorter distance, to cause as much disruption back there.

Because of this, a pump is actually harder to keep on target for repeated followup shots than a lever.
 
WardenWolf said:
Jim243, the problem, though, is that movement at the front of the gun creates more disruption than movement at the rear. It's a simple concept of leverage, with your shoulder acting as the hinge. The front of the gun is not as well braced, and movement there inflicts more leverage so a little bit of pressure there creates a greater overall disruption. The rear of the gun is braced against your shoulder, so working the lever vertically does not do much to affect your aim. Additionally, leverage dictates that you would have to push harder, albeit over a shorter distance, to cause as much disruption back there.

Because of this, a pump is actually harder to keep on target for repeated followup shots than a lever.
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WW, I respectfully disagree with you 100%.

Any well practiced man with a pump action can cycle it without any disruption of the sight picture. The disruption of the sight picture when shooting a centerfire caliber is from recoil. And under recoil, racking the action often happens so readily that its almost unnoticeable.

Cycling a lever rifle, the forearm hand should hold the rifle in place against the shoulder while the trigger hand does its work. It does take practice but once you can simultaneously "rub your belly and pat your head" its easy.
 
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