If you take psych counseling do you lose your RKBA?

[racenutz]

My wife & I when through some hard times over last fall & winter (financial trouble) that put us through a great deal of stress. She would like for us to take some counseling sessions which I'm not against doing unless it jeopardizes my 2A rights. I remember something about this being on the 4473 form but it's been so long since I actually read one (You know the drill..yes, no, no, etc LOL) & don't remember what it says about it. Thanks.

 

[4570Rick]

Stress Mgnt. and Marriage Councilling should have no effect on your RKBA.

 

[Mr Jody Hudson]

I strongly suggest you be very careful going to a shrink. How about a minister? Psych records, like any other doctor records, will last your lifetime and become more and more public... ask Rush.

Ministers usually abide by the confidentiality pledge they take.

 

[sendec]

It should have no effect. Seeking counseling for marital/fonancial difficulties is a good thing. The 4473 thrust is to screen out florid schizophrenics and involuntary commitments and such.

I would claim that the recent enactment of HIPA (health information privacy act)makes this type of info more difficult to get than previously.

 

[tyme]

There's some debate over whether HIPAA accomplished anything useful. Amusingly, the acronym does not include "information" or "privacy". It stands for "Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act"

http://www.privacilla.org/releases/HIPAA_Report.html

The TX AG has offered an opinion on HIPAA's applicability to Texans...
http://www.dfw.com/mld/startelegram/news/state/7950211.htm?1c
http://www.oag.state.tx.us/opinions/or50abbott/ord-681.htm

 

[RealGun]

Real men do cry, go to marriage counseling, and take medication. They might even talk about their feelings.

Answer the form exactly as it reads. Do not inject any personal prejudice about emotional problems. You're not insane because you need marriage counseling or even medication. In any case, a fair process would mean that questions would be asked rather than your getting an automatic and final denial when answering affirmative.

Form 4473

 

[Firethorn]

Looking at the codes, if you just go in for counseling, your fine. You have to be commited into an institution by a court in order to lose the RKBA.

Basicly, which would you prefer an armed person to do:
a) go in and get counseling/treatment for the problem, get it taken care of
b) don't go in because they're afraid they'll lose their RKBA/whatever, let it fester, and maybe go on a shooting spree?

 

[dave3006]

Be careful picking your counselor, years ago my wife drug me to one of these people. It was appaling how feminine the process was. No rights or wrongs. All feelings based. The lady wanted me to cry. I told her I don't do that crap. She kicked me out. Told me she refused to see me any more.

That was the moment my wife started to respect me. Women do not respect weak, touchy feely men. They won't admit it. But, it is true. I have been married 15 years now. I am fair. But, strong. And, I don't do the Oprah feeling crying stuff.

I'm not a chick.

 

[Logistar]

At least in Kentucky you would have to be INVOLUNTARILY committed to an institution to affect your CCW (or right to carry). Getting some counseling is probably a good thing. - Been there... done that... and probably will do it again VERY soon.

Logistar

(Edited to add: Some counselors ARE better than others. if you don't like the one you have... get another one!)

 

[dischord]

You lose your RKBA when a court judges you to mentally unstable, not when you voluntarily get help.

 

[sendec]

Realgun-

Well said

Refreshing to see the positive, for the most part, responses.

Respect is a funny word. I t can mean so many different things, from admiration to fear.

 

[TallPine]

Ministers usually abide by the confidentiality pledge they take.

Maybe usually but not always

And there is no oversight or recourse if they screw you.

 

[BryanP]

Well, looking at the form I see the line you're probably thinking of -

f. Have you ever been adjudicated mentally defective (which includes having been adjudicated incompetent to manage your own affairs) or have you ever been committed to a mental institution?

I don't see how a little counselling could be construed in that way.

Now here's a hypothetical question for all you armchair lawyers: What if you end up married to someone for whom that question would be true? What are your rights and responsibilities?

 

[Zundfolge]

I don't think any marriage counseling would effect your RKBA from a legal standpoint, however do be careful whom you choose to go to.

There are a large percentage of Psychiatrists and Therapists who are very anti gun and see a man owning a gun as being almost equal to a man beating and murdering his wife (every gun owner is a potential killer) so they may demand you get rid of your guns (not that they have any power, but if you want to gain anything from the counseling you don't want to go to a counselor whom you have to ignore most of what they say). Many other Therapists have extreme gender-feminist beliefs so as the man you're wrong no matter what.

It was these prevailing beliefs (among others) within the pseudo-religion/pseudo-science that is Psychology that caused me to change my life's course (for most of my life I planned on becoming a Psychologist). College was the single most disillusioning experience of my life.


If you and your wife are Christians, I'd either go to your pastor or have him refer you to a Christian Counselor.

 

[SteveS]

As a counselor, I would have to definately say NO. As previously stated, this only applies to people that have been adjudicated to be mentally incompotent (not an easy thing to do) or involuntarily committed. Besdides, there is no central database of people that have sought counseling (at least there isn't, yet). All the records I keep are confidential. I cannot disclose anything without the consent of the client, a court order, or if the person makes a specific threat against an identifiable individual.

Psych records, like any other doctor records, will last your lifetime and become more and more public... ask Rush.

The law requires that I keep records for 6 years after the person has left counseling. After that, they are destroyed. I am not going to rent spance to store records after the 6 years.

 

[racenutz]

Thanks for all the replies

There are a few things I need to ad though:

This counseling would be for depression not marriage counseling. My marriage is stronger than ever. I'm married to a wonder full woman that is as ardent a 2A supporter on anyone on this board & she fully supports my gun hobby. Heck, when we first talked about moving in together her first question was, "Do you have any guns? I won't live in a home without them" Trust me guys I have one of the GOOD ones

It was these prevailing beliefs (among others) within the pseudo-religion/pseudo-science that is Psychology that caused me to change my life's course (for most of my life I planned on becoming a Psychologist). College was the single most disillusioning experience of my life.

I'm almost done with the, required for my degree, General Psych class & I totally agree with you. You should have seen the look on the teachers face when we were talking about coping mechanisms. She almost had a conniption fit when I said that mine was shooting

If you and your wife are Christians, I'd either go to your pastor or have him refer you to a Christian Counselor.

My wife & I are Christians but, long story short, we were kicked out of the church we were members in so that's not an option.

 

[RealGun]

This counseling would be for depression not marriage counseling

- racenutz

Now that's different. You should start with an LCSW counselor (licensed clinical social worker), who will likely refer you later to a psychiatrist, whose distinguishing function is to pick a medication and write a prescription (an MD). Been there/done that.

Make sure your med insurance is lined up first, so that you don't have to declare a preexisting condition and lose coverage on a new policy. Mental health coverage, which includes marriage counseling BTW, will probably pay 50% of the consultations and most of the meds, which are worth about $3-4 per day. There may be an annual limit. I lost that coverage when going from employed to self employed.

You would then think twice before changing jobs, but some group plans are unconditional entry. Check the benefit program fine print without volunteering information, just to be sure to avoid prejudice and to maintain privacy.

Whatever, make sure you seek and accept help and be totally open to taking medication as soon as possible. You'll be glad you did.

 

[Detachment Charlie]

I remember the Good Old Days when a man's "counselor" was his bartender and the best medication was boubon.

 

[JohnBT]

"This counseling would be for depression"

Doesn't matter what's it's for if you go voluntarily. It could be for Schizophrenia, Bi-Polar, situational or chronic Depression, personality disorder, whatever and it does not apply to gun ownership.

OTOH, if you were picked up for acting 'funny' (like a woman here who got out in traffic on an Interstate ramp , climbed up on a dumptruck and broke out some windows) and admitted for a psychiatric eval, then here in VA they have 72 hours to make a determination whether or not you're an immediate danger to yourself or others. If the hearing judge decides you are then you've just been 'adjudicated' and off you go to the hospital for treatment. Now you have to answer the question on the gun purchase form with a big YES because you've been adjudicated.

(A funny story from work: I know of a guy who got picked up when he went downtown and tried to swear out a warrant on the Devil. While he was in for his 72 eval they tested his blood and some of the ward aides wanted to know where he got that much pure coke and if he could get them some. He had the highest blood level they'd ever seen. After he sobered up two days later they held the hearing and let him go because he was no longer an immediate threat to himself or others.)

A verdict of not guilty by reason of insanity or mental defect would count as an adjudication, too.

John...no, I'm not a lawyer, but I got a counseling degree or two in the early '70s.

 

[TallPine]

Depression ...?

You must have been watching / reading the news again.

I honestly don't know how anybody in their right mind can NOT be depressed.

 

[sumpnz]

somewhat related to this topic - My sister-in-law is a schizophrenic (sp??) and bi-polar with paranoid delusions. She's been forcibly commited at least once in the past, and has been declared incompotent with my mother-in-law as her legal guardian (she's 25). Obvoiusly her RKBA is gone, but that hardly matters to her. My question is, since my wife and I are pretty much destined to eventually (hopefully in the far distant future) become her legal guardian, how does that affect my RKBA if she were to live in my house? Is it just the same as if she were a child, or do other factors come into play?

 

[SLCDave]

You will be fine. Actually, you'll be a lot better, once you get things straightened out. I know people on anti-depressant medication that have their CCW permit, and were on it when it was issued.

Depression is a funny thing, because it's so misunderstood. Many people don't understand it, and dismiss it as something you can just "snap out of". It is a very real thing, and can be debilitating. It can control you, and methods of self-medicating (alchohol, drugs, etc.) just make it worse.

Many men will go untreated because they don't want to be labled defective, or feel like they are less of a man because they need medication to feel "normal". The funny thing is, it's really no different than people that have heart conditions, diabetes, and other medical conditions that require medication. You take medication because you do have something wrong, just like anyone that takes any medication. The reason it's such a hard fact to get over is men are raised not to learn to deal with feelings and emotion, and when those things you don't deal with raise up and take control of your life, you keep trying to supress it, and it just gets worse.

Bottom line, if you are fighting depression, get counseling, get medication if it is deemed necessary, and don't fight yourself over it. Noone has to know unless you tell them, and honestly, it's none of their business. Good luck to you!

 

[SteveS]

There are a large percentage of Psychiatrists and Therapists who are very anti gun

I am not sure I’d say this is true. At least I am not aware of any polling data that would back it up. While I would believe it is true among some therapists, I wouldn’t say that it is universal, or even a distinct majority.

Many other Therapists have extreme gender-feminist beliefs so as the man you're wrong no matter what.

The same holds true for this. I agree that some are man-hating feminists, but I have met very few, nor would I say that I fall into either of these categories.

It was these prevailing beliefs (among others) within the pseudo-religion/pseudo-science that is Psychology that caused me to change my life's course (for most of my life I planned on becoming a Psychologist). College was the single most disillusioning experience of my life.

Where did you go to college? Many university psych departments tend to follow a distinct technique or school of thought. For instance, CMU, where I went to grad school, mostly taught cognitive/behavioral therapy. There was instruction in other techniques, but it was mostly CBT. If I were exposed to gun-hating feminist psychology, I probably would have changed majors too.

I agree with a previous poster. If you have insurance, contact them first to see what you have to do. Sometimes you’ll have to get a referral from your primary care physician or you’ll have to pick from a list of approved providers. If you know anyone that has gone, or that knows any counselors, that might be a good place to start. Otherwise, open up the yellow pages and start calling. I can’t tell you what to look for because I don’t think you can tell from an ad in the yellow pages.

Once you make an aapointment, ask a lot of questions. What will treatment be like? How long will it take? How much experience do you have? If you are concerned if they are anti-gun, bring up the subject. If they freak out, go somewhere else. It is your time and money. Don’t waste it on someone that you cannot trust.

 

[killermarmot]

you have to be deemed criminally insane which can only be found by a trial jury or judge. Going to a therapist will not make you deemed insane. Especially if you don't go to a psychologist, a psychologist is a doctor and a psychiatrist is not allowed to administered drugs and such. Marriage trouble will not effect your RKBA. Only a criminal trial can affect your RKBA. good luck

 

[one45auto]

My wife & I are Christians but, long story short, we were kicked out of the church we were members in so that's not an option.

Next time make sure the Church is empty before you start fooling around.



P.S. Yes, you certainly did get one of the good ones didn't you? Hang it all, I'm actually jealous!