KodiakBeer
member
It's a King Tiger. The photo was taken in January 45, in the Ardennes. The GI with the the STG-44 is in the 30th Infantry Division.
If you were a WWII infantry soldier...
- Thread starter KBintheSLC
- Start date
- Status
leadcounsel
member
For a WWII style European or Asian conflict, assuming I was a rifleman in a company of riflemen, I would opt for the M1 Garand as primary (with bayonet), and the 1911, and as much rifle ammo and as many grenades as I could carry. Since most of the fighting was over distances and heavy cover, the M1 Garand would be ideal. As a semi-auto it has the advantage over bolt actions. For building or trench clearing the grenades and .45 would be ideal.
John Parker
Member
- Joined
- May 14, 2009
- Messages
- 679
Not true. I play Call of Duty all the time and every WWII soldier carried 5 guns and a full complement of ammunition for each one.
Met several guys that carried a BAR in early stages of Vietnam, they liked that with AP ammo you could shoot through log bunkers.
Of all the WW2 weapons I've fired the BAR is just.. I don't know a good 'feeling' rifle/LMG to me. Yeah it's heavy, and my shine to it might dull if I had to carry it all over hill and dale, but thats one hell of a weapon.
Carbines were certainly popular among paratroopers and marines, carrying 2-3x as much ammo when resupply is far away makes sense to me. Thing is if you've ever picked up a carbine they are lighter than many 22's I've used. You walk a lot, you need to make every ounce count, give yourself a carbine.
Pistols? 1911 or a 1917 Colt, thanks. Though many a soldier found a humble .38 from home to do in a pinch. Lugers are neat trophies but lousy defensive arms.
FYI I have a 1903a3 and a Kar98k... the 98k is one HELL of a rifle, even if it was 'outdated' for the time.
My grandfather was a flight engineer on B-29's. He was issued a .45 and couldn't hit anything with it. His brother in law Sid was issued a shotgun at the end of the war in the ETO when he was serving as an MP in the occupation of Germany. Think he carried a carbine before that as an enlisted radioman and later when he mavericked to 2nd Lt.
Of all the WW2 weapons I've fired the BAR is just.. I don't know a good 'feeling' rifle/LMG to me. Yeah it's heavy, and my shine to it might dull if I had to carry it all over hill and dale, but thats one hell of a weapon.
Carbines were certainly popular among paratroopers and marines, carrying 2-3x as much ammo when resupply is far away makes sense to me. Thing is if you've ever picked up a carbine they are lighter than many 22's I've used. You walk a lot, you need to make every ounce count, give yourself a carbine.
Pistols? 1911 or a 1917 Colt, thanks. Though many a soldier found a humble .38 from home to do in a pinch. Lugers are neat trophies but lousy defensive arms.
FYI I have a 1903a3 and a Kar98k... the 98k is one HELL of a rifle, even if it was 'outdated' for the time.
My grandfather was a flight engineer on B-29's. He was issued a .45 and couldn't hit anything with it. His brother in law Sid was issued a shotgun at the end of the war in the ETO when he was serving as an MP in the occupation of Germany. Think he carried a carbine before that as an enlisted radioman and later when he mavericked to 2nd Lt.
Cosmoline
Member
Good thing for us they didn't make very many of those! And that Hitler was such a loon and kept ordering them to do foolish things.
KodiakBeer
member
They made almost a half million of them.
Maverick223
Member
I think he was referring to the Tiger II, they made less than 500 of those.
chieftain
Member
Where you going to get a resupply of ammo on Guadalcanal, Tarawa, Saipan, Peleliu, Iwo Jima, Okinawa etc........? Email?
Bad choice for an American trooper, not in the ETO. Besides that would have meant using the highpower and Panzerfaust for most of the war. Just doesn't qualify as small arms.
Also you would have the STG-44 only for the last year of the war, starting in April 1944.
Go figure.
Fred
Ignition Override
Member
Quoheoleth:
Nice video, and their 140,000 max. weight exceeds our DC-9 (Dash 50) MTOW by 19,000 lbs.
In German, gepanzert also means armored.
Having been on an excellent (personal) guided tour of the fox holes and other battle areas around Bastogne, Belgium a year ago, the Garand will be my choice after a drive to the CMP.
Nice video, and their 140,000 max. weight exceeds our DC-9 (Dash 50) MTOW by 19,000 lbs.
In German, gepanzert also means armored.
Having been on an excellent (personal) guided tour of the fox holes and other battle areas around Bastogne, Belgium a year ago, the Garand will be my choice after a drive to the CMP.
Last edited:
KodiakBeer
member
That's a "Duh" for me...
I was an armorer in Berlin 1967-68. arms room had 6 M60, 28 1911, 6 90mm recoiless, 6 automatic rifle M14A1, 6 m79 grenade launcher, 120 M 14, and 6 riot shot guns. Shot guns were brought in to kill war dogs and used in daily patrols along with pintle mounted 30 cal machine gun, scoped 1903 bolt action, 45 cal side arms and M1 carbine. Dogs were pulling down civilians and smart enough to get inside and take out 1 or more of 3 man patrol. Patrols were stepped down in 1952 and dropped in 1954 according to unit records. Weapons platoon had two jeep/pintle 104 mm recoiless and 4 81 mm mortars in a seperate armory. From unit records there were no TOE for shotguns in an infantry company as a standard issue, just for dogs.
blindhari
blindhari
And of course the front of the turret which was downright sexy with the curved mantlet. The rear sloped down quite a bit as well. That bulge on the side of the cupola was a real piece of work. I believe only the first 50 Tiger II had the Porche turret which was too expensive to produce compared to the Henschel (which was actually designed by Krupp). Plus, the rounded front/mantlet of the Porsche turret acted as a shot trap as well as the turret sitting up just a bit form the hull. Sorry for the off-topic sideshow, but I've been an aromor nut my entire life.
As to the Garand, as no soldier can always know what his weapon requirements will be in a very fluid environment such as war, I would want the rifle that could get the job done in most any situation, and the knockdown power and range issues with the Thompson and M1 Carbine put the Garand on top for me, overall. There will be situations where the other two would be superior, but considering the wide variety of battle scenarios and having to have only one rifle that will get the job done in all of them, I'd have to go with the Garand.
Maverick223
Member
Same here, no arguing that the Russians had the best though. 500 really well constructed tanks, that are slow and unreliable is no match for the hordes of T-34s (with KV-1s to back them up). It is the obvious inspiration for the Patton series of tanks, which also served us well (I think some still do for friendly nations such as Israel).
KodiakBeer
member
Tanks?
How about the "Sturmtiger"? It has a 380mm rocket propelled naval gun designed for use against battleships, mounted on a Tiger chassis. Not really a "tank", but a self-propelled artillery piece. This one was killed by the 117th IR, 30th Division, in Oberempt Germany - my Dads outfit. He said it was a rather exciting morning with this thing chasing them around the streets taking out half a city block with each shot. It had a company of SS troopers attached to it. Somebody knocked a tread off with a bazooka and the crew fled. The GI's just called it "The Monster".
How about the "Sturmtiger"? It has a 380mm rocket propelled naval gun designed for use against battleships, mounted on a Tiger chassis. Not really a "tank", but a self-propelled artillery piece. This one was killed by the 117th IR, 30th Division, in Oberempt Germany - my Dads outfit. He said it was a rather exciting morning with this thing chasing them around the streets taking out half a city block with each shot. It had a company of SS troopers attached to it. Somebody knocked a tread off with a bazooka and the crew fled. The GI's just called it "The Monster".
Kernel
Member
^^^^
You know you got a big bore when the main gun can double for an escape hatch!
You know you got a big bore when the main gun can double for an escape hatch!
KodiakBeer
member
Apparently, the Germans had a number of these 380mm naval guns gathering dust in warehouses, since their surface fleet was sunk or bottled up by the British. It was actually a mortar/rocket. The mortar charge would propel the shell for some distance and then the rockets would kick and take it the rest of the way. Each shell weighed 1500 pounds.
Some of these guns ended up on Sturmtigers as above, and others were converted into towed artillery pieces. GI's called the German 240mm shells "freight cars", but when they encountered this 380mm in Germany itself, they found them so mind-boggling they just called them "Monsters".
This towed gun below was also captured by the 117th IR near Weser and was the first one they encountered. All of these guns seemed to have been arrayed in one area, opposite the Dutch and Belgian borders.
Some of these guns ended up on Sturmtigers as above, and others were converted into towed artillery pieces. GI's called the German 240mm shells "freight cars", but when they encountered this 380mm in Germany itself, they found them so mind-boggling they just called them "Monsters".
This towed gun below was also captured by the 117th IR near Weser and was the first one they encountered. All of these guns seemed to have been arrayed in one area, opposite the Dutch and Belgian borders.
Cosmoline
Member
Exactly, thanks. Also I think the 500,000 figure is way high for German Panzers, Panthers and Tigers even taken together. My recollection is of production numbers ranging from a few hundred to a few tens of thousands. Even the M-1 Sherman, mass produced in vast quantities for a tank, only came to 50,000 or so total. Tanks are not simple to build. The T-34 total was over 80,000. But nobody built half a million tanks in WWII
Also, according to Wiki only 19 Sturmtigers were ever built. The Germans had some really fine machines, but by that point in the war they simply didn't have the wherewithall to keep pace with Allied production. No matter how much better a Panther or Tiger was than a Sherman, that advantage was mooted in sheer numbers. Not to mention our artillery, aircraft and tank destroyers.
KodiakBeer
member
Yeah, I was referring to the STG-44, not the King Tiger in the same picture.
Dr T
Member
My elderly friend was very definite about the 3 man BAR teams, and how much the ammo and auxiliary equipment that they had to carry weighed (and how much fun it was to carry all of that stuff while he was being shot at, and how far he had to walk with it). He was not suffering from memory loss or confusion at the time of that conversation.
Kernel
Member
How about a Swedish Kg m/1921 BAR in 6.5x55? With that pistol grip stock, and attached bipod, sort of reminds me of a Austrian StG-58 FAL.
Hatterasguy
Member
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2010
- Messages
- 1,604
Guderian faught against a lot of those big gun tank projects. He was inspecter general of the Panzer troops and really didn't think resources should be wasted on such projects. He wanted production of the up gunned Panzer IV to be increased, they simply needed more tanks.
Hitler pushed for such projects, he loved that kind of stuff. Those Sturmtiger's have Hitlers finger prints all over them. If Guderian got his way those would have been regular Tigers.
Hitler pushed for such projects, he loved that kind of stuff. Those Sturmtiger's have Hitlers finger prints all over them. If Guderian got his way those would have been regular Tigers.
Maverick223
Member
Yep, and was a good thing too. Great weapons, with outstanding firepower, but it severely deteriorated the production capacity, depleted valuable wartime resources, and manpower to achieve these feats. The 800mm railway guns fired enormous, devastating shells (up to 20,000lbs IIRC
)...but it also took over a thousand tons of steel, a double track railway (took 2500 railway workers), 3 battalions to man, and a major or lieutenant general (can't remember which) to command. Oh, and about 50 shells were fired between the two deployed. Thank God for Hitler. - Status
