Ignition Trouble with Italian Sharps Replica

[DrDucati900]

I recently bought an ArmiSport Sharps rifle in beautiful shape at a local shop. Ive known the owner for years and he is a straight up guy. Any way it will not fire about 3/4 of the time. I have tried loose powder,2F,3F, charged the nipple, paper cartridges, changed from #11 nipple to musket nipple and just about everything else I can think of. I have tried from 60 to 90 grains of powder.It blows paper out the muzzle when it is placed in the chamber and fired with a musket cap. It pops the base of the powder and leaves stains but will not ignite any of 4 different brands of black powder.
When the rifle fires with Dixie Sharps bullets it is a tack driver. This is very frustrating. My brother has been a BP shooter for 50 years and he's scratching his head too. anybody got a suggestion short of offing it at a gun show? I really don't like to do that do the unsuspecting (having been on the other end a time or two):banghead:.

 

[vagunmonkey]

What type of musket caps are you using? Many I have talked to haave troubled with the CCI musket caps (reenactor caps) because they are not hot enough to make it through the 90 degree angles of the flash channel. Shooters I know have success with the wingless German RWS caps. if you can not find aany wingless try the 4 wing though. some dont have 100% success with the 4 wing, but it is better then the CCI.

 

[BHP FAN]

My IAB Tri Star .54 ''Paper Cutter'' Sharps had the same problem. I got pretty P.O.'d because it's the 1863 Sporting Rifle with great fiddleback and tiger stripe ''figure'' in the stock, and I paid over six hundred bucks for this rifle. I pulled the nipple and put a half of a .22 LR cartrige worth of powder in the hole, and screwed the nipple back on, and with no charge or ball, fired the rifle at the target at 25 yards. There was a hole in the target! I looked between the paper of the target and the rubber backer, and there were plastic beads, some still connected.Some sort of device to make the Sharps ''non-firing''? Packing material? I don't know, but I never had a problem with it again.

 

[WestKentucky]

I was thinking about this and was meaning to ask if you had cleared the ignition port with a pipe cleaner yet, but the trick of blowing it out with powder seems nifty. I dare say I would opt for the pipe cleaner well before the powder trick.

 

[sltm1]

Drducati900. Here's the deal, the flash port is made of 2- 90% turns, one from the nipple to the horizontal channel below, (this one has a clean out screw on the left side of the breech), and then another right turn opening down to the chamber. I would think a longer clean out screw would contain the flash better to go down the channel, but my fix at the time was to take the carbine once loaded and pointing the bbl in the air, either tap it against the ground, or tap the fore stock with the flat of your hand. This will make some of the powder go into the flash channel where it will have a much better chance of igniting....BYW, I shot 3f Goex in mine

 

[sharps59]

Ok here we go. several things. first I had a armi sport quit a while ago, now have a Shiloh.
pull the breach block. take out the clean out screw it may be to long or to short. put a drill bit in the breach flash channel put screw back in see it the drill bit drags when you pull it out. if not to short screw if it does it could be to long. best fix get a hold of Charlie Hahn have him do a straight line solid block conversion for you, he did mine. he can be found several ways web search, Shiloh sight or the N-SSA sight.

 

[DrDucati900]

I think the next step might be the smokeless route in the nipple. Bullseye or Unique. I've got a nipple that uses 209 primers and I havent' tried it yet. I have not taken the screw out but I guess that will be next.
Funny thing is it shot more reliably with a #11 cap and nipple(1 out of 8 or 9) than with the musket nipple I've used CCI and RWS caps. No diference.
I guess I'll have to get the screw out and see if there is anything in there. It will blow paper out the muzzle so it is getting enough force it should ignite black powder.
Frustrating.
I noticed a space behind the screw in the port angle of the breech block when I was probing for obstructions so it may have a screw turned 180 deg out of place. I wouldnt' think that would block the flame but it might misdirect it.
Mine is IAB also. Beautiful rifle but not worth a damn as it is.

 

[sharps59]

are you using paper or loose powder?? do not expect it to blow a hole in paper and still ignite the powder. If you are using tissue paper on the end which is what you would need to do. you can not get grease or fouling on it while loading it will not allow the cap to ignite the power either. one key thing the flash channel needs to be clear. the screw needs to be at the right length. these are very touchy guns. mine would snap caps all day long channel was clear but would not fire. I do strongly suggest the Hahn block conversion. also every drop off only needs to be removed from the flash channel. Nipple hole nees to be as small as possible to keep the flame tight. I would suggest you also go on the N-ssa site and the Shiloh site for help.
You DO NOT want to put modern powder or black powder under the nipple. you are asking for a face full of metal.

 

[sltm1]

Hey Doc, before you become one of those "don't try this" video's on YouTube, listen to what us experienced users have discovered about the fussy Sharps paper cutter rifle. Remember what the illustrious John Wayne said, "Life is tough...it's tougher when you're stupid".

 

[DrDucati900]

I was waiting for somebody to decry my choice of solutions. I have no desire to blow myself up I assure you. Just ruminating frustration. I found the Hahn website and I think I'll give him a call.
I have been using loose powder but just to see what kind of force I was getting I put a little wad of kleenex in the bore. The cap blew it right out. That's what I meant by paper. The force of the cap even blew a hole in a fire ant hill when I tipped the muzzle down. No little force there.
Sharps59 , mine is doing just like yours. I'm going to pull the screw out and then go for the Hahn advice.
Thanks to all.

 

[Curator]

DrDucati900,

I have an IAB paper-cutter carbine that had the same ignition troubles you are having. I enlarged the flash channel with the largest drill size the would not take out the threads. In doing so, I found considerable carbon build up in there (and this from a "never fired" gun!) I also enlarged the channel in the face of the breech block with the same drill size. Very little metal was removed in the process but I think there was a slight constriction where the flash channel turned 90 degrees and the two did not completely meet. This and using RWS (not CCI-reenactor) 4-wing musket caps eliminated ignition problems with my gun.

 

[DD4lifeusmc]

What type of musket caps are you using? Many I have talked to haave troubled with the CCI musket caps (reenactor caps) because they are not hot enough to make it through the 90 degree angles of the flash channel. Shooters I know have success with the wingless German RWS caps. if you can not find aany wingless try the 4 wing though. some dont have 100% success with the 4 wing, but it is better then the CCI.

Everybody has some good ideas.
Many of these imports had a little "flashing" left over from drilling the ignition path.
VERY CAREFULLY take a drill and run it through the passages, then thorough flush out with carb or brake cleaner and dry.
DO not apply oil in this area. Just clean and dry it when done shooting.
Sometimes it will be helpful to insert the bullet in chamber, load with your normal charge, leave room for 5 to 10 grains of 4f (ignites easier). Use the 4f if needed even with 777 or pyrodex. Pellets seem to be harder to ignite also.
Mine is a Pedersoli, and ignites every time. I use bulk, paper cartridge and the brass cartridges.

 

[sharps59]

checking w Charlie Hahn you may find he will recommend only using 2ffg. 3ffg seams to wear the gas check out prematurely. If you are trying to contact him this week it may be hard. this week is the N-SSA Nationals. And he will be there. *If you are in the Winchester Va. are. the nationals at fort Shenandoah is worth checking out.
All I use now is 2ffg w no misfires.