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Illegal PA gun registration backed by state supreme court

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Diggler, Oct 20, 2004.

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  1. Diggler

    Diggler Member

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    Court Upholds State Police Records On Gun Purchases

     
  2. OF

    OF Member

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    Twisted freaks. What kind of slimy perverted mind could weasel their way through that kind of 'logic' and determine that a registry of gun owners isn't a registry of gun owners?

    These justices are tyrants. May they burn in hell for their treason.

    - Gabe :fire:
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2004
  3. Zrex

    Zrex Member

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    Would any database maintain records of all firearms owned? No? Well then, there is no such thing as a registry of firearm ownership anywhere. Slippery Slope ahead.
     
  4. geekWithA.45

    geekWithA.45 Moderator Emeritus

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    GRRRR....

    I'm going to have to read the laws on this one.

    The PA code isn't exactly consistent in its definition of "firearm", from one section to the next, and you have to take note both of what the operating definition is in the section in question, and any exceptions that are in operation.

    There are sections of it where "firearm" is defined as handgun, short barrelled rifle/shotgun, and other sections where firearm includes normal long guns.

    There are yet other sections where firearm is defined as per normal, but then at the bottom of the section, it'll say something like "clause A) only applies to handguns, or clause B) shall not be construed to apply to long guns.

    What I fear is that this ruling is based on one of those segments where the definition of firearm isn't what everyone thinks it is.

    This wouldn't make it RIGHT, of course, but it's possible the judicial ruling is actually consistent with the text of the law.
     
  5. Beren

    Beren Moderator Emeritus

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    To quote a movie:

    "Damn them! Damn them all to hell!"

    :cuss: :banghead: :fire:

    Guys, it's time we began writing our legislators. Our high court has failed us - our only option is legislative, and it will be darn difficult to accomplish with anti-gun Rendell in office.

    We must see to it that the handgun purchasing process in PA is reformed.
     
  6. AZRickD

    AZRickD Member

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    It would be nice to post the particular section of the law here so we can read jus how bad the Court has blown this.

    Rick
     
  7. Hawkmoon

    Hawkmoon Member

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    A judge.

    'Nuff said.
     
  8. geekWithA.45

    geekWithA.45 Moderator Emeritus

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    http://members.aol.com/StatutesP7/18PA6106.html

    It's pretty clear to me that this section's applicable definition of firearm means ANY projectile weapon.

    Now I'm pissed.

    Gonna read this bit about transfer of firearms, and state police, as that might be a "section of this chapter to the contrary"
     
  9. Henry Bowman

    Henry Bowman Senior Member

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    I was about to :barf: if I read "sportsmen" one more time!

    SELF DEFENSE IS NOT A SPORT! :cuss: (Yes, I am yelling.)
     
  10. geekWithA.45

    geekWithA.45 Moderator Emeritus

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    Hmmm...I'm still plowing through this...

    http://members.aol.com/StatutesP7/18PA6111.html

    but it looks like this section makes a confusing set of distinctions between longarms and firearms as defined by 6102, which is

    Still reading and sorting...
     
  11. geekWithA.45

    geekWithA.45 Moderator Emeritus

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    Update:

    ARGH!

    Depending on how you read the law, it can appear to leave wiggle room for this, in that a great deal of the sections regarding destruction of records seems to apply to long guns. Then you scroll to the bottom, and there's another set of qualifiers.

    Definitively sorting it out will require me to do a formal logic table, an excercise I just don't have time for at the moment.

    Not having performed that excercise, my instincts, honed by 20 years of reading code tell me that the retention of handgun purchase records is ultimately not lawful. I temper this with the experience of having read BUGGY code for 20 years, which tells me that actual outcomes of the processing is dependent on the actual logic vectors in play, so I could be wrong there.
     
  12. TheEgg

    TheEgg Member

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    It does not matter how the law is written. Many judges don't follow the law anymore. They simply decide what the public policy should be, in their wisdom, and then contort the the decision to fit.

    The judicial system is attempting to become the "super-legislature" in this country, and is well on the way to becoming the REAL rulers.
     
  13. cpileri

    cpileri Member

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    As if you didn't see that coming...

    From the desk of Agent Schmuckatelli, ATF

    Dear THRers,
    We've been able to count on the courts to see things our way for years now. Better luck next time- NOT!
    Regards,
    Agent S-
     
  14. Beren

    Beren Moderator Emeritus

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    Next step: research the utility of PA's present laws concerning handgun purchases and transfers.

    While I have no problem with background checks prior to the purchase or transfer of a handgun, I have to wonder how often law enforcement has been able to solve a crime based on tracing registry data. Has it /ever/ helped? If it has been of extremely low utility (supposition on my part), then its usefulness would be outweighed by the invasion of privacy it represents.

    How much does it cost to operate, both in hard (actual budget) and soft (time buyers spend filling out the state form, etc) costs?
     
  15. Telperion

    Telperion Member

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    Unbelievable. Judge Castille's quote has to be the most tortuous, disingenuous, and perverse "reasoning" I have seen from any judge, save perhaps Reinhardt in his Silveira decision. Does anything qualify as a prohibited registry now? Beren and Slavonic have the right idea; you guys are going to have fix this legislatively.
     
  16. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

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    One of the few things government consistently does very well is assert the imaginary rights of government against the real rights of individuals.
     
  17. Turkey Creek

    Turkey Creek Member

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    not surprising considering the oath these idiots take upon assuming office includes- "laws?, we don't need no stinking laws!"- the law is whatever some pompous clown in black sitting at his elevated desk so he can both physically and mentally look down on everone else, says it is-
     
  18. F4GIB

    F4GIB Member

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    Don't ever depend on Judges to save gun owners' rights. Most jodges are "liberal" with regard to guns and willing to pull the most outrageous logical contortions to uphold any law or regulation.
     
  19. Mikul

    Mikul Member

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    This came up about a year ago, and research was done on the number of crimes that the registry has helped to solve. The number back then was exactly: ONE.

    It seems that criminals don't purchase guns legally, and if they do they're not stupid enough to drop them next to the corpse like you see on television.
     
  20. jefnvk

    jefnvk Member

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    You know, if you replace the word 'guns' with 'religion' or 'race' or something of the sort, you'd never hear the end of it.
     
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