Illinois Gun Shows Outrageous Prices

[Hammerhead6814]

Whoever thinks that price gouging is perfectly sound "Free-Market" economics has got their definition of "Free-Market" bass ackwards.

A Free Market means that people can compete against one another for the business of someone else. Telling someone you have the best deal in town, while in reality your marking your product several times higher than the competition, all the while lying through your teeth about how no one else has this kind of deal, IS ripping someone off. Lying is lying. Free Market economics have nothing to do with it.

Price Gouging is lying. Something dealers are doing all to well.

I'm amazed at how the moment someone criticizes the appalling state of the arms retail industry, someone always come out and shakes his finger whilst screaming "socialist!". Grow up, you who doesn't need to be named.

 

[FN_man_08]

I live in Illinois across the river from St. Louis. I have been to several gun shows in my area. I have seen many things I would like to buy but the prices are just way too high. The only things I have ever bought from a gunshow are a canteen, ammo cans, and a can opener for my keychain. The guns and ammo are just way overpriced. When I was shopping around for my FNP-9, I found one at a gunshow for I think $529 at the time. I tried to talk the guy down telling him that I knew for a fact that I could get the same gun at my local shop for $439, but he just couldn't match the price or even come down at all. I guess that there are enough people out there that do not shop around, or dont care what the prices are they just know what they want, that he figured he could lose the sale because somebody else would come along and pay what he was asking. So I do not go to the gun shows very often anymore.

 

[Tomahawk674]

I just turned Gunbroker, Auction Arms and GunsAmerica into my new virtual gunshows. Free to browse, although lots of price gouging on there too, but I smile when I see 0 bids on said items.

 

[Nighthawk0083]

I have to say that no one has forced the vendors to buy overprices ammo and sell it at crazy prices. They can buy direct from the manufactures and before you say who has 30 grand laying around well that doesnt mean that 5 or 6 vendors cant go in on it together at 5 or 6 thousand a piece to get ammo. If people would just think alittle bit about how they can effectively run their businesses at gun shows everyone would profit.

 

[gyvel]

The point is gun shows suck and most of the dealers there anymore are trying to rip off as many people as they can.

So what else is new??

 

[outerlimit]

I haven't been to a gunshow in several years. I was already only going to them to look, at that point. Sounds like things haven't changed.

 

[ljnowell]

So what else is new??

I dont know, I didnt start the thread. I was just laying it out for the vocab teachers and economists that were taking offense with the OPs word usage.

 

[rocky branch]

I remember when gunshows were actually really cool.
The best action was in the parking lot.
You had to bring your own jerky and bbq sauce, though.

I gave up small shows long ago.
I'll travell to really big ones once in a while.
Even if I don't do any trading there's often things worth looking at.

 

[HGUNHNTR]

What I don't understand is why haven't prices at shows come down? Don't vendors want to sell their goods? I have a feeling a lot of them are more the collector type than interested in making money. Most of the folks I have seen manning these tables wouldn't be described as shrewd business people.

 

[AirForceShooter]

Here in Florida the prices appear to be dropping. They're still silly high but coming down.
Ammo is beginning to refill the shows.

AFS

 

[Robert]

I'm amazed at how the moment someone criticizes the appalling state of the arms retail industry, someone always come out and shakes his finger whilst screaming "socialist!". Grow up, you who doesn't need to be named.

Neither Oneonceload or myself mentioned Socialism. If a buyer is dumb, or desperate, enough to pay what they know to be a drastic markup on products then they have deemed the price to be reasonable and thus no price gouging has taken place. Ever been to a football or baseball game? Did you pay the prices asked for the tickets, parking, food, and beer? Or did you stand outside and cry about price gouging? When one knowingly pays more money for an item it is not price gouging. It is free choice. If you do not think the price is fair then do not pay it. Someone else will be more than happy to, or not, in which case the dealer goes home with bricks of unsold ammo.

when everyone in a geographical area all attempt to charge too much you cant get the product at a fair price, so it becomes gouging.

Internet?

 

[ilbob]

I mostly only go to the gun show run by a club I belong to. The last show (July) I went to after missing one or two (there are 3 a year).

Very little in the way of reloading supplies.

A fair amount of ammo but pricey.

Lots of guns. Prices seemed high, but not real high. You have to remember this being IL there is the issue of the waiting period which all but eliminates any impulse buys.

No beef jerky. I felt cheated.

Bought five 50 cal ammo cans for $3 each.

I went there intending to buy 4 or 5 pistol cases. I managed to find one that was suitable.

Its astounding to me that there were almost no gun cases and no beef jerky at a gun show.

 

[bill in IN]

How much do you think is attributable to the FOID and how much is just overpricing?

 

[ljnowell]

Neither Oneonceload or myself mentioned Socialism. If a buyer is dumb, or desperate, enough to pay what they know to be a drastic markup on products then they have deemed the price to be reasonable and thus no price gouging has taken place. Ever been to a football or baseball game? Did you pay the prices asked for the tickets, parking, food, and beer? Or did you stand outside and cry about price gouging? When one knowingly pays more money for an item it is not price gouging. It is free choice. If you do not think the price is fair then do not pay it. Someone else will be more than happy to, or not, in which case the dealer goes home with bricks of unsold ammo.

Really? Did football and baseball game tickets and refreshements go up in price 100% or more overnight? It is not free choice if someone cannot buy ammunition at any price except the infalted prices of all the dealers in an area. You can argue this all day if you want, but you will just look foolish arguing that its all the peoples fault the prices went to what they did. Yes, people panic bought, but the dealers saw nothing but dollar signs. They jacked the prices while making up stories to spread fear and get people to buy thier goods. If that doesnt fit your dictionary on price gouging, so be it, but you are screwing up a thread by missing he whole point of it.

Internet?

Out of stock? How about those wonderful people at cheaper than dirt? Thats some fair internet prices.

 

[Justin]

Grow up, you who doesn't need to be named.

Please recall that there is a reason that this forum is called "The High Road" and that snide comments of this sort are not the sort of discourse that we want.

 

[bababooey32]

It is not free choice if someone cannot buy ammunition at any price except the infalted prices of all the dealers in an area

Just because you think the price is to high, doesn't make it "inflated". If all the dealers in the area are selling at the same price, that should tell you that the level of demand for that item is supporting that price. Keep in mind that the price of ammunition today is lower than it was 40 years ago:

In 1969 one could buy a box of cmmmercially loaded 9mm for about $5/box. Adjusted for inflation, that $5 box would cost about $30 in today's dollars. I think all of us can find even high-end HD 9mm ammo for less than $30/box!

The price of a box of 9mm is still (even at these "inflated" prices) significantly less than what it would be if it were at 1969 inflation-adjusted prices. To be sure, it is much more than 12 months ago, but the price of ammo has risen less than the price of milk over the last 40 years.

Yes, people panic bought, but the dealers saw nothing but dollar signs. They jacked the prices....

That IS precisely how free markets work. When demand goes up, prices also go up. Sellers will ALWAYS set their prices as high as the market will tolerate. If prices are too high, the will not clear sales and they must bring their prices down, if prices are toolow, they will sell out quickly and need to raise prices to maintain some semblance of inventory and keep their clients happy.

while making up stories to spread fear and get people to buy thier goods

If you are saying that you have been tricked into buying ammo at a price you were uncomfortable with by dealer claims, then you need to evaluate your willpower. "Buyer beware" is a common concept that applies when charges of misleading advertising etc are brought. Buyers do have a certain amount of responsibility to do due dilligence before forking over their dollars. Besides, I'm not so sure that dealers aren't simply echoing the sentiments their clients are esposuing re: fear mongering!

 

[Robert]

I did not miss the point at all. And there is a reason that I have never, nor will I ever buy anything at a gun show for the very reason that almost everything is way over priced. And yes the panic buyers did drive the price up. What I am saying is that if we as consumers agree to buy at that price then the price has been deemed fair.
As the panic buying increased and prices rose to a level that I felt were no longer fair I shifted my focus from buying ammo to reloading it on my modest set up. Nothing fancy but enough to get the job done. I just fail to see how something is price gouging unless we as consumers buy it, otherwise it is just way over priced. This problem does not start with the dealer, be they store front or gun show. This starts with the ammunition manufacturer. As demand for a product goes up the price for the product goes up as well. Makers of ammo shifted into high gear in order to meet demand. This means more man hours, and more materials. Someone will have to pay for this. So they raise the wholesale price which in turn is reflected in the shelf price. I am not saying that some people are not trying to swindle people at gun shows or stores. I am simply saying that if you find an item to be over priced then why agree to pay that price? The consumer sets the market price just as much as the retailer does. If we demand more and are willing to pay more for it why should the price not go up? Call me a capitalist but I like making money and if you are willing to pay more for something today than you did yesterday then so be it.
If it is not my fault for paying more money for something, then whose fault is it? Last time I looked I was not having my arm twisted into buying something that is overpriced.

 

[Zundfolge]

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS PRICE GOUGING!
:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

Prices are set by the BUYERS, not the sellers.

If people are buying at a price you think is too high YOU are the one that's wrong and the higher price is the RIGHT price.


That's how free market economics works.

If you don't like the price, don't buy. Period.



The term "Price Gouging" is a dishonest term created by the Frankfurt School Marxists and is a classic part of Critical Theory of Marxism.

Go read THIS and then come back here and tell me all about Price Gouging.

Here, an article by the same author (Thomas Sowell) on the subject (since an entire book is a lot to read).

 

[oneounceload]

We know. Someone always posts this everytime this comes up. It doesnt matter though, when everyone in a geographical area all attempt to charge too much you cant get the product at a fair price, so it becomes gouging. If you argument is over semantics, why bother? The point is gun shows suck and most of the dealers there anymore are trying to rip off as many people as they can.

So that means you are locked in a room? You can't go to another location? You can't get on the internet? BS....if YOU don't like the prices they are charging, don't go, and don't buy their stuff and come on various on-line forums and blast away. maybe some will see the slams and change, maybe yes or maybe no.

 

[oneounceload]

Whoever thinks that price gouging is perfectly sound "Free-Market" economics has got their definition of "Free-Market" bass ackwards.

A Free Market means that people can compete against one another for the business of someone else. Telling someone you have the best deal in town, while in reality your marking your product several times higher than the competition, all the while lying through your teeth about how no one else has this kind of deal, IS ripping someone off. Lying is lying. Free Market economics have nothing to do with it.

Price Gouging is lying. Something dealers are doing all to well.

I'm amazed at how the moment someone criticizes the appalling state of the arms retail industry, someone always come out and shakes his finger whilst screaming "socialist!". Grow up, you who doesn't need to be named.

YOU don't HAVE to buy from them. There is NO ONE forcing to buy their goods.

 

[oneounceload]

I have old boxes of ammo I bought at a local store back over 20 years ago - some rifle, some pistol and more shotgun shells. EVERY one of them is priced higher than retail is now. and 20 years ago, salaries were lower.

IF you don't like the prices, here's a hint - DON'T BUY IT.....Take up a hobby you feel you can afford, or roll your own, or start up your own retail gun business and sell everything for what you think you should be paying for it now.

Been to too many guns shows and have seen it every time - the person selling something is charging way too much when you are the one buying, but not if you're the one selling

 

[Hammerhead6814]

If the prices are set by the buyers, how come I can't tell them what I want to pay? I'm trying to buy, but they don't want to go below what THEY set. Sellers make the prices.

Let's see, saying that "would you like the government to set prices for you" - oneounceload, "The term "Price Gouging" is a dishonest term created by Frankfurt School Marxists and is a classic part of Critical Theory of Marxism." (it's actually one of Locke's terms) - Zundfolge.

Oneounceload, when every dealer raises their rates, who do you buy from? Seriously, if everyone at the show raised their prices to match their competitors prices, what do you do? Twiddle your thumbs. It's also amazing how you can sit their and tell me to go take econ 101 (a class I aced), and yet no one is calling that a snide comment.

Once again, lying is lying. I don't care if it's under the name of capitalism. It doesn't make it right. No one, not Locke, Hume, or Smith ever said lying outright is sound Capitalist/Free Market practice. I dare someone to find a paper where they condoned it.

 

[ljnowell]

yeah yeah yeah, whatever dude. What is your point anyway? No one here is going to argue with you anymore. No one is ever overcharging if someone is willing to pay it. What exactly are you trying to prove? You dealer buddies arent ripping people off, they are ripping themselves off?

So that means you are locked in a room? You can't go to another location? You can't get on the internet? BS....if YOU don't like the prices they are charging, don't go, and don't buy their stuff and come on various on-line forums and blast away. maybe some will see the slams and change, maybe yes or maybe no.

Internet again? When everyone is out of stock because dealers are buying it up you cant order on the internet, have you been locked in a room since last november? I havent went to a gunshow in years, and dont intend to go back. The OP made a post about and you are acting like a child in his thread. Give it up, you dont have to ruin this thread.

 

[Zundfolge]

If the prices are set by the buyers, how come I can't tell them what I want to pay? I'm trying to buy, but they don't want to go below what THEY set. Sellers make the prices.

No, the buyer's still set the price. YOU aren't the only buyer in the world, so if someone comes along and pays the price YOU think is too high, then THEY have just set the price.

If the seller can't get anyone to buy at their price and you can convince them to lower it then YOU get to be the buyer that set that price.

A business that refuses to lower its prices to the range set by the buyers then they're not sellers they're just guys sitting there with product in their hands and their thumbs up their .....

 

[oneounceload]

Don't have any dealer buddies - I buy from my local club and on line and have been quite satisfied with both the service and price I pay.

If you aced econ, then you know that everyone can also lower prices - called competition. If you don't feel you're getting any of that, go somewhere else and buy from them.

and ljn -

No one is ever overcharging if someone is willing to pay it

- you finally got it. and if NO ONE is willing to pay, then the seller has to decide to reduce prices, sit on it and incur increasing carrying costs on inventory, or just go out of business