I'm 18 and want a handgun, is there any possible way to own one?

[Busyhands94]

Hello there! I just turned 18 and live in California, the "You can't have it State" and want to get a handgun. Is there any feasible way of legally owning one? I'm not really like other people my age, I'm a responsible adult who just wants to own a pistol. I already own a blackpowder pistol, several actually. I just want to get a cartridge handgun, but I'm seeing that I can't buy one until I'm 21 years old.

Also, could I build one and remain legal doing so? I've been wanting one of those Cobray derringer kits, I'm just curious if that's a possibility. What about converting a flare launcher or perhaps a heavy-duty blank firing pistol to shoot .22s?

I am planning to move out of this State, I'm going to Arizona. It will be a couple years though, but I don't want to wait to be in full possession of my constitutional rights to own a firearm.

Thanks in advance!
Levi

 

[Librarian]

Federal law says FFLs cannot transfer handguns to under-21.

California law extends that to any person or business.

BUT a parent or grandparent may give a handgun to a child or grandchild who is at least 18.

See the Calguns Foundation Wiki article -- http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Transferring_Firearms_Among_Some_Family_Members

Note that you will still have problems buying handgun ammunition, because the 21+ rule applies to that as well as handguns themselves, and most (all?) ammunition sellers are also FFLs.

 

[Busyhands94]

Thanks for the reply! So could I have my father purchase the handgun and give it to me? I probably will choose a pistol that fires a cartridge like .357, .22 LR, or .22 Magnum. There's rifles chambered in those calibers, so I'd imagine that getting ammo wouldn't be too hard. Worst case scenario, I have to give Pa' some money to buy the ammunition but that's not too big a deal and he'd understand. They also sell shotgun adapters in common pistol calibers, I might be able to bring the adapter into the gun shop to aid in the purchasing of ammunition. That might help, especially if it's in 12 guage since the .410 adapters could probably be used in a Taurus Judge or something.

~Levi

 

[tyeo098]

Thanks for the reply! So could I have my father purchase the handgun and give it to me? I probably will choose a pistol that fires a cartridge like .357, .22 LR, or .22 Magnum. There's rifles chambered in those calibers, so I'd imagine that getting ammo wouldn't be too hard. Worst case scenario, I have to give Pa' some money to buy the ammunition but that's not too big a deal and he'd understand. They also sell shotgun adapters in common pistol calibers, I might be able to bring the adapter into the gun shop to aid in the purchasing of ammunition. That might help, especially if it's in 12 guage since the .410 adapters could probably be used in a Taurus Judge or something.

~Levi

Your dad would have to buy the gun with his own money. Otherwise thats called a Straw Purchase, and its 10 years in the federal pokey for that one.

Also, lying to buy ammo is bad practice. You can try the 'its for a rifle I swear' line but most people wont buy it anyways because your end result is for use in a handgun. Your best bet would be to buy ammo online and have it shipped to you. (If Cali allows that) Having your dad buy ammo with your money is a Straw Purchase as well [see above].

 

[bikemutt]

Thanks for the reply! So could I have my father purchase the handgun and give it to me?

Best make sure Pa buys the gun for himself with his own money. If he wishes to gift it you after that, fine.

 

[Busyhands94]

What if I were to handload my own ammo? Do you have to be 21 to buy pistol brass?

Levi

 

[Busyhands94]

Another quick question, would it be a straw purchase if my dad bought the gun and I helped pay for groceries and gas? I'd like to do this in the most legal way possible, I don't want to have it be a straw purchase in any way. All I want is a good handgun to shoot targets and plink with.

Another thing, what would the laws be regarding building my own firearm out of a non-firearm? I was thinking if the law were to permit I could get one of those Deer Creek blackpowder brass derringers, bore it out, then sleeve it to .22 Long Rifle.

I am thinking that .22 Long Rifle would be the best caliber here. I go to the sporting goods store and get bricks of .22 ammo all the time. They don't even ask if it's for a pistol or rifle. It all goes to my rifle anyway, so I'm sure that it's not going to be a problem getting ammo. If the gun was in .357 or something I could probably just get a Lee loader and a bullet mold, I have experience in handloading already so it's no problem for me.

Levi

 

[bikemutt]

Another quick question, would it be a straw purchase if my dad bought the gun and I helped pay for groceries and gas? I'd like to do this in the most legal way possible, I don't want to have it be a straw purchase in any way.

If you really are interested in doing in the "most legal way possible" then do as I suggested earlier, have you dad buy the gun with his own money for himself. Later, when you guys are at the dinner table, he can hand you the gift he bought for you.

Paying your dad for gas and groceries has nothing to do with a lawful firearm transfer.

 

[Sam1911]

The "straw purchase" issue gets awfully fuzzy when dealing with family and gifts.

"Hey, Dad, here's $500. Go down to Ed's Guns and buy me a Glock." That's a straw purchase and is completely illegal.

"'Evening Son! Happy Birthday! I bought you this Glock for your birthday!" Perfectly fine. (Assuming you follow all of California's transfer laws.)

"Hey Dad, you know I want a Glock, right? Well, buy me one and I'll pay you back by buying gas and groceries for two months." Not sure how that's any different from "Here's $500...go get me my gun."

"Hey Dad, you know I want a Glock, right? Well, I'll cut the grass for a year and I'll wash your car every month if you'll get me one for my birthday..." Eeeehhh. That's probably not going to cause anyone any troubles.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Also, lying to buy ammo is bad practice. You can try the 'its for a rifle I swear' line but most people wont buy it anyways because your end result is for use in a handgun. Your best bet would be to buy ammo online and have it shipped to you. (If Cali allows that) Having your dad buy ammo with your money is a Straw Purchase as well [see above].

A couple of misconceptions presented here ^^^^. First, lying to buy ammo is not only a bad practice, but if the person lies to an FFL about the ammo purchase (saying it is for a rifle, when the intention is to use it in a handgun by a person <21 years old), it is a Federal felony.

Second, having dad buy the ammo with the son's money will not be a "straw purchase" so long as the FFL does not ask, "Are you the actual purchaser of this ammunition?" For example, son gives dad $50 to buy ammo for use in a handgun. Dad goes into Joe's Gun and Pawn Shop and buys .357 ammunition. Joe asks, "Can I see ID please?" Dad shows his ID. Joe says, "Over 21, OK, here you go!" Dad walks out of store and gives the .357 ammo to the son for use in his handgun (if son is >18 years old), no Federal statute is violated.

 

[Sam1911]

And, anyone who may legally own a firearm in their state of residence may build a Title I firearm for their own use. (Assuming the laws of that state do not prohibit it.)

Not quite sure how you're going to make a black powder gun (safely) fire off rimfire ammo, but as long as that pistol has a rifled barrel (NO smooth bore pistols -- NFA Title II AOW), it would be legal.

 

[Busyhands94]

Thanks for all the helpful replies, I really appreciate it!

I have converted a blackpowder pistol to fire .22s before, it just isn't a permanent conversion that's all. As far as I can tell if I want to shoot it with the cartridge converter then my father or mother have to be present. It has rifling and is a non-permanent conversion, meaning I can take it out and fire the pistol with powder, cap, and ball. I'm not sure about having one permanently converted though.

Levi

 

[beatledog7]

Anyone else get the impression that OP is gonna wind up with a handgun some way or another?

 

[Busyhands94]

Either way I'm going to figure out how to legally own one. I'm probably going to move to Arizona once I get the money and buy a handgun there.

 

[XxBulletBendeRXx]

All comes in time.. Enjoy the Ride~~~

 

[dmazur]

...I'm not really like other people my age, I'm a responsible adult who just wants to own a pistol.

...What about converting a flare launcher or perhaps a heavy-duty blank firing pistol to shoot .22s?

Not trying to rain on anyone's parade here. I believe I understand the desire to own a handgun and sympathize with the pain of waiting.

However, the above two statements don't "mesh".

I'm not saying adults don't do stupid things, which might happen to be legal. I think there's a site called "The Darwin Awards" that explains in some detail some of these antics.

However, I believe converting a non-firearm to a cartridge-firing firearm is not only illegal, but well on the road toward a Darwin Award.

(A physics book will cover some of the principles involved, involving properties of materials, pressure in a vessel acting equally in all directions, etc. Basically, a firearm is a carefully designed bomb with a hole in one end so the projectile can escape. If you don't know how firearms are manufactured, you can accidentally create a bomb with very little effort. And, some reloaders discover that if they exceed design limitations when reloading a properly designed firearm, they can also turn that firearm into a bomb. Just something to think about...)

 

[Busyhands94]

I see what you mean, but I was thinking more along the lines of one of those flare pistol converters, my buddy has one. You take the flare pistol, slide the .22 converter in, and there you go, a single shot .22 pistol. I wasn't talking about converting one to .357 or .45 Colt like the gangsters do, that's more of a Darwin Award thing. Over the past few hours I've given the blank pistol idea some thought and decided that it's probably not the best idea. If I were to do that I'd fire a couple shots from a ransom rest first and only shoot low pressure rounds like .22 CB's out of it. But I'm not building that, it's too much of a risk come to think of it.

Levi

 

[Old Fuff]

If you come east a bit to Arizona you can own a handgun at age 18, but you'll have to buy it from another resident and not a FFL dealer (Called a "private party purchase").

You can also carry it, on your person or in a car. Loaded? You bet!

I doubt that this will help you now, but in the future if you want to be able to excercise all of your rights, get the (beep) out of California, and while you're at it consider the "free state" next door.

 

[beatledog7]

Busyhands,

What's the rush?

 

[Busyhands94]

Beatledog7, The rush is that I want full possession of my second Amendment but the state seems to try and infringe upon every aspect of our lives and say it's for our own good. I'm fine with the drinking age being kept at 21, but they need to lower the handgun ownership age to 18. It's ridiculous how a law-abiding adult not convicted of a felony can't own a handgun without having their parent give it to them.

Old Fluff: Exactly, I'm getting out of this state, the laws here protect criminals and disarm honest hard working citizens. And as a bonus to having all my rights if I move to Arizona, my grandpa lives there too! We'd get to go shoot together more often!

As soon as I get enough money I'm going to move out of The California Republik as soon as possible. I've been looking at rural property in Arizona, it's not too expensive either!

I think I'm going to have to just bite the bullet (no pun intended) and get out of California. I've always wanted to move out of this state and I feel like not being able to own a handgun was the straw that broke the camel's back.

Levi

 

[dmazur]

OK, I looked up a Kirst .22 conversion kit, and a .22 flare gun conversion.

The Kirst conversion appears to have gone through a design process, and is probably safe.

I think the included letter from the ATF for the flare gun conversion is interesting. I wonder why you'd need that letter...

Also note that it is illegal to sell the assembly unless it is sold as a pistol.

The letter from the ATF says the converter isn't a firearm, but that individuals installing one in a flare gun should check state and local laws to make sure possession of the assembly is legal, because the assembly is a firearm.

This is what you have to watch for -

Various flare gun adapters

Look about half-way down the page, 26.5mm to 12ga shotshell adapter. Just because the pieces fit together does not make it either legal or safe, in this case.

Years ago, I believe someone just had to bore out a plastic Olin flare gun to see if it would fire 12 gauge shells. The results weren't pretty.

Be careful...

 

[tyeo098]

A couple of misconceptions presented here ^^^^. First, lying to buy ammo is not only a bad practice, but if the person lies to an FFL about the ammo purchase (saying it is for a rifle, when the intention is to use it in a handgun by a person <21 years old), it is a Federal felony.

Second, having dad buy the ammo with the son's money will not be a "straw purchase" so long as the FFL does not ask, "Are you the actual purchaser of this ammunition?" For example, son gives dad $50 to buy ammo for use in a handgun. Dad goes into Joe's Gun and Pawn Shop and buys .357 ammunition. Joe asks, "Can I see ID please?" Dad shows his ID. Joe says, "Over 21, OK, here you go!" Dad walks out of store and gives the .357 ammo to the son for use in his handgun (if son is >18 years old), no Federal statute is violated.

I had a feeling you'd be along sooner or later to correct me.

And while #2 doesnt constitute a 'legalese' straw purchase, it still fits the definition for one:

A straw purchase is any purchase wherein the purchaser knowingly acquires an item or service for someone who is, for whatever reason, unable to purchase the item or service themselves.

SRC: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_purchase

But TECHNICALLY you are right on that one.

 

[dmazur]

More on transferring by gift (immediate family, i.e. your parents) -

California Penal Code 27875

which says -

Section 27545 does not apply to the transfer of a handgun,
and commencing January 1, 2014, any firearm, by gift, bequest,
intestate succession, or other means from one individual to another,
if all of the following requirements are met:
(a) The transfer is infrequent, as defined in Section 16730.
(b) The transfer is between members of the same immediate family.
(c) Within 30 days of taking possession of the firearm, the person
to whom it is transferred shall forward by prepaid mail, or deliver
in person to the Department of Justice, a report that includes
information concerning the individual taking possession of the
firearm, how title was obtained and from whom, and a description of
the firearm in question. The report forms that individuals complete
pursuant to this section shall be provided to them by the Department
of Justice.
(d) The person taking title to the firearm shall first obtain a
handgun safety certificate, if the firearm is a handgun.
(e) The person receiving the firearm is 18 years of age or older.

Note (c) and (d). You have satisfied (e), and if it is a gift from either of your parents, (b). Don't do it "frequently" and you satisfy (a).

If someone told you your parents had to be present when firing your converted 1858, it was probably because that made it a handgun. IMO, probably no different than a converted flare gun.

IANAL, but if the 1858 & converter were gifts, you could probably argue that that makes the assembly a gift and go through the hoops to get the transfer documented. Then you can probably possess it without one of your parents being present.

I'm not sure how you get a handgun safety certificate, but note that it says you need one first...

 

[dmazur]

And (because the horse isn't dead yet), regarding boring out a .22 blank pistol -

But I'm not building that, it's too much of a risk come to think of it.

Believe it or not, the risk is that you are building a smoothbore pistol, in addition to building something that may not handle the pressure of a fired round. The converters you were describing are all rifled, and it makes a difference.

Not the laws of physics this time. Federal law. (Almost as inflexible...)

 

[NavyLCDR]

"Straw purchase" of a firearm and lying about the intended use of ammunition centers around one statute:

18 USC 922 (a)(6):

18 USC § 922 - Unlawful acts
(a) It shall be unlawful—
(6) for any person in connection with the acquisition or attempted acquisition of any firearm or ammunition from a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, knowingly to make any false or fictitious oral or written statement or to furnish or exhibit any false, fictitious, or misrepresented identification, intended or likely to deceive such importer, manufacturer, dealer, or collector with respect to any fact material to the lawfulness of the sale or other disposition of such firearm or ammunition under the provisions of this chapter;

The "straw purchase" of a firearm occurs when the buyer answers "yes" to the question on the form 4473, "Are you the actual purchaser of this firearm?" if the buyer is purchasing the gun on behalf of another person. That's all. It does not matter who the other person is that the buyer is making the purchase on behalf of. The buyer violates the statute by making a false written statement.

When an 18 year old lies to a dealer that the ammo is intended for use in a rifle, when the actual intended use is for in a handgun, they violate the exact same statute by making a false oral statement.

If a >21 year old person is buying ammunition for use in a handgun on behalf of an 18 year old, 18 USC 922(a)(6) is not violated so long as the buyer makes no false oral or written statement to the dealer, IE: "I am the actual purchaser of this ammunition."