I'm a magnet for bad quality control

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What does say about the gun industry in general?
This question could go beyond the gun industry and go right to manufacturing as a whole. Word of mouth from one person or one lost customer due to a quality issue isn't that big a loss to a company's bottom line as it is to invest in improving the process to manufacture a product free of defects.

It's easier to beg for forgiveness than ask for permission.

If the product is returned defective and the issues fixed quickly, send back to the customer quickly, and it never has another problem, then what does the customer have to complain about?

I've sent two guns back to the factory in my life and it's always a waste of my time, especially if it's a rifle. I have to get a box, pack the gun, include a note of the issue, and put my mailing address in the box, then tape up the box and drop it off for shipping. Then it comes back and I have to wait around for the mail truck to get my signature. After doing this twice, it's a process I'm not fond of doing.

What makes it worse is when it's not fixed right.
 
The good news with Ruger is they usually fix it right the first time. That said, I don't care to play the spend $650 and see what you get game and thus I won't buy any of their revolvers brand new anymore, at least outside the LCR line. Ruger's single actions have been around so long you can find used ones for cheap and they're better than new ones, so what's the point?

To hear that you're having issues with their single action .22's is very disconcerting. The Ruger SA's are simpler to make than double actions, but they're not cheap either, so for a $500 single action to have problems... that's telling.

At the rate it's going, the revolver market is going to destroy itself with the QC problems Ruger, S&W, Taurus, and even Charter are having. 2 years ago if you asked me pistol or revolver, I would have said revolver, but every revolver you buy today is a gamble and semi auto pistols seem to be more of a sure thing.

Which is why I'm looking for a Glock 40 in 10mm. It's all the power I'd ever need that holds 15+1, weighs near half what a 6 inch GP100 does, and is probably more accurate too.
 
"Ruger's single actions have been around so long you can find used ones for cheap and they're better than new ones, so what's the point?"


Me too. I bought a new one five or six or seven years ago. It's a perfectly good shooter, but I got smarter after that and have bought four used ones since. They all work fine, even the ones that are around 50 years old. My 22lr was sold as... I don't think they called it a "parts gun", but something along those lines. It needed the little cylinder release button and the associated spring. I think their combined cost was about $10 with shipping.

I bought both of my LCP's used and they have gone bang every time, but maybe I was lucky. The LCPII is my favorite micro 380. I carry it from time to time.

It's too bad that the OP got the "unpleasant" end of the stick so many times. I know that's it's all just random statistics, but it must be very discouraging. I prefer to go with used handguns that were manufactured in what are considered to have been high quality eras. If one is a dud every once in a while and needs to be fixed, I still save money in the long run. Not trying to criticize the OP, just kinda rambling...
 
The good news is that Ruger has excellent customer service and quick turnaround times. That’s a primary consideration these days.
 
a lot of gun problems I read about are clearly the result of ordering the gun; then once its in you're stuck with having to send it back for problems that would have otherwise been found upon inspection from a gun sitting on the shelf.
 
the problem i had with a ruger 45 long colt is both the front and the rear of the cylinder was bored with a worn out reamer. holes too small to load well or even shoot well. i had to give a gunsmith 125 dollars to ream them properly. then it loaded and shot very well. didnt trust ruger to do it right as they are known for using drills and reamers that are worn out and undersized.my two lcr/s are made very well with no problems. one of my uberti colts had a broken arm that i fixed for very little money and it was a easy fix. the 22 cylinder i got for my uberti army 1860 for a conversion was reamed too small both front and back. i did the work my self and made it shoot more accurate. the sleeve that they sent that lined the barrel had the worst crown i ever saw on any barrel ever. i redid that and again accuracy greatly improved. sometimes its not the initial product it is just their is no quality controll. the ones who do the work are called 90 percenters. they give 90 percent but are too lazy to give the last 10 percent.
 
What does say about the gun industry in general?

Things are not what they used to be.

A few years ago, I had a similar streak of problems with new air rifles of brands across the board from budget to premium (Hatsan to Weihrauch and Air Arms). It seemed like whatever brand I chose, I got a problem. Luckily, that streak ended (knocking on wood).

I bought four new shotguns this season and only had minor difficulty with one (rough chamber in a Tristar Viper G2, easily fixed at home).
 
the problem i had with a ruger 45 long colt is both the front and the rear of the cylinder was bored with a worn out reamer. holes too small to load well or even shoot well. i had to give a gunsmith 125 dollars to ream them properly. then it loaded and shot very well. didnt trust ruger to do it right as they are known for using drills and reamers that are worn out and undersized.my two lcr/s are made very well with no problems. one of my uberti colts had a broken arm that i fixed for very little money and it was a easy fix. the 22 cylinder i got for my uberti army 1860 for a conversion was reamed too small both front and back. i did the work my self and made it shoot more accurate. the sleeve that they sent that lined the barrel had the worst crown i ever saw on any barrel ever. i redid that and again accuracy greatly improved. sometimes its not the initial product it is just their is no quality controll. the ones who do the work are called 90 percenters. they give 90 percent but are too lazy to give the last 10 percent.
It seems that with Ruger it is usually about the cylinder. I recall mention that they outsource their cylinders, so managing a delicate relationship like that would be the crux of the problem.
 
you my be correct. the rest of the gun was made well. even the cylinder was made well except for the undersized holes front and back. it is not hard at the factory to check cylinders for correct size holes. why dont they do it?
 
Anymore, sad as it is, I generally ASSUME that a product is not ready for prime time until it's been on the market for some time. This allows for the; rush-to-market, flawed if existing at all pre-market testing and initial production stumbles.

Then, after it's been around long enough, I have to factor in poor component and labor quality control.

Eventually, if you wait too long, machines & tooling wear out and then THAT is the thing to worry about.

So, EVERYTHING in EVERY market is suspect to me and I have come to realize that it is in fact ME that is usually the quality control factor in most any market.


Todd.
 
you my be correct. the rest of the gun was made well. even the cylinder was made well except for the undersized holes front and back. it is not hard at the factory to check cylinders for correct size holes. why dont they do it?
Probably because they are assemblers, not gunsmiths.
 
A range buddy of mine bought a S&W stainless 629 a while ago (mid 90's?). On our next range trip we could not get a round into and chamber.
he tried, I tried, we couldn't load this pistol. He sent it back to S&W and they said the chambers were out of spec.

The box had empty fired cases in an manila envelope!!!

They repaired it and it was good. Stuff happens.
 
It says "nothing" a thread by someone with 16 posts (all complaints) just joined and has a multitude of defective firearms.??

Based on this thread Ruger now sucks??

Give us a break,

All my posts are not complaints. Since you looked at my post history, I'm sure you noticed the thread I started on my Charter Pathfinder was very favorable. I'm also extremely pleased with my ultra lite Taurus 856, which I shot today. It's a very good gun for the money.
 
Then, after it's been around long enough, I have to factor in poor component and labor quality control.

Eventually, if you wait too long, machines & tooling wear out and then THAT is the thing to worry about.

So, EVERYTHING in EVERY market is suspect to me and I have come to realize that it is in fact ME that is usually the quality control factor in most any market.

Todd.
I can't say it's in every market, but it is in manufacturing across the board, especially non-union shops, which is almost every firearm manufacturer outside of Colt these days.

The sad reality is that there's a race to the bottom in manufacturing when it comes to pay and thus skills. The goal of management in manufacturing is no longer taking care of their employees and keeping them happy, it's paying as little as possible, maximizing profits as far as possible and if that means bad product has to leave the door to keep from investing millions into improving QC or hiring better employees... so be it.

The guys working at S&W or Ruger 50 years ago were probably making the equivalent of $20 an hour today. Today's guys and girls are making $12 an hour.

The machines that make the revolver frames I see in videos at S&W are old, like at least 20 years old, but they're Japanese Tsugami machines and Japanese machines are the best you can get. So, it's not machines, tooling can get worn, but QC is supposed to catch those mistakes.

The issue is that unlike 40, 50, 60 years ago, there's too much CNC being used, too much CMM being used. Back in the day each dimension cut on a revolver was done on a manual mill using jigs or fixtures and it was one guy who did it for decades. Boring work, but the quality was unmatched because that guy knew exactly what he had to do to make a good product.

Today, instead of one dimension cut per machine, it's all dimensions cut on one machine.

I watched a video of a shirt & tie at S&W talking about the tooling being computerized for the CNC's like it's doesn't even need people to check the parts it makes. There was video of a slide being inspected on a CMM and he was saying they don't need go/no-go gages anymore.

IMO, go/no-go gages are the best, most cost effective inspection tool you can give a machine operator to ensure quality.

I can tell you with how slow CMM's are, not every single part is getting inspected on a CMM, they inspect in batches. I don't know what the percent rate is of inspected parts, but a place I worked at if they get 500 parts, they inspect 50 of them. If 45 of them pass inspection, all 500 parts are good.

That's the way it is today.
 
I only had one bad Ruger. (A Bill Ruger / NRA Edition Mark II). After about 90 rounds the trigger broke. (It wouldn't reset). Fortunately I purchased it from Davidson's, and it came with a Lifetime Free Replacement Warranty.

I called the dealer, and he told me to bring it in right away with all of the paperwork. When I got there he had already called Davidson's, and they already had sent out another gun. In less than 24 hours I had a brand new gun in my hand. Had I bought it from anywhere else, I would have had to wait weeks for a repaired gun.

After that I ALWAYS try to purchase from Davidson's if possible. They are the only distributor that offers this.
 
ttv2, thanks for the info, your very brave mentioning unions here. before i went to college to become a registered nurse i belonged to a union. quality was our goal and we delivered quality. we could have used unions in the nursing proffesion as their was a lot of back stabbing with out them. it took me 5 years to get my union card and 2 years of higher math in college. i was highly trained and could put out a quality product. blue prints were my daily business.
 
All my posts are not complaints. Since you looked at my post history, I'm sure you noticed the thread I started on my Charter Pathfinder was very favorable. I'm also extremely pleased with my ultra lite Taurus 856, which I shot today. It's a very good gun for the money.

Whatever floats your boat, give the Charter some time. Hope you are happy with it.
 
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