I'm hesitant to even ask this question

[arizona_cards_11]

Like others have suggested - if you're set on this route, buy low end equipment. I can tell you first hand that high-end stuff won't sell like you think.

 

[tcoz]

Ron, what a buzzkill you are . Your advice is the way I've lived my entire life. I figured $2500 is half the cost of a nice vacation which my wife and I can't take anymore because of her medical condition. I've always taken care of our sons, put them through college, helped them financially when they needed it and now it's time for me. It's probably obvious that I really want the SCAR for myself, but this is the only way that my ultra conservative self can come close to justifying it. It doesn't really make sense to do and for some unexplainable reason, guns are the only thing that make me lose all perspective.

 

[Partizanai]

Only certain weapons are good investments....

I agree that weapons do not usually make sound investments but, there
are a few exceptions. WW11 small arms in very good/excellent condition
are a very nice investment.
The "AR" platform is way too plentiful to grow enough in value to be a
true investment-in my opinion. If you want to buy brand new, take a look
at some higher end handguns or rifles from Europe.

 

[njl]

I suspect ammo or reloading components would be a better investment (if you can get them now or before a Hillary Presidency) at non-inflated prices. In the time I've been shooting and reloading, the price of ammo has generally always gone up.

Powder and primers are not feasible to ship, so you'd be limited to selling them reasonably locally, but I doubt you'd lose money on them (unless you overpay going in). If Hillary is elected, I expect another long shortage of powder/primers, and you might double your money on them if you time it right and have a large enough local market.

Then again, you said you're retired...are you already hanging out at Walmart buying the cheap .22lr as it's unpacked? You can double your money on that right now...if you figure out the timing to be able to buy it from the store.

 

[mstreddy]

tcoz,

You know, 77 posts later and it comes out -- YOU WANT IT and NEED the JUSTIFICATION!

Here is the justification--- YOU EARNED IT!
You've earned the money, you've covered the greater needs, you've taken care of the family, you will still be covered for the retirement.
Now, go buy the SCAR, go enjoy it, and if the forces turn it into a desirable sale in the future, worry about it then.

Here's how I look at it, I am now 50 years old, and I've owned guns my entire adult life. I had wanted a genuine GI M1911 or M1911A1, but the prices would keep turning me off. So, I've seen them go up from $700 to over 2K. In a conversation with a buddy last year, he put it simply, just don't buy some other guns and you can afford the $1500 - 1800 for one. So, in taking his advice, I went and found the $1500 M1911, made in 1918, bought it and I'm happy. And, yes, that 96/7 year old gun shoots GREAT!

 

[Reloadron]

Ron, what a buzzkill you are . Your advice is the way I've lived my entire life. I figured $2500 is half the cost of a nice vacation which my wife and I can't take anymore because of her medical condition. I've always taken care of our sons, put them through college, helped them financially when they needed it and now it's time for me. It's probably obvious that I really want the SCAR for myself, but this is the only way that my ultra conservative self can come close to justifying it. It doesn't really make sense to do and for some unexplainable reason, guns are the only thing that make me lose all perspective.

Been there and done that also. Put the kids through college so they would only be dependent on themselves. I just don't see investing in guns as a good way to go, however, as I mentioned, replying to the original post whatever trips your trigger. We live well on the pension and social security incomes so the rest is gravy. I still buy guns, if I see one I like I buy it. I just don't see them as an investment. When I check out they can be divided among the kids and grand kids to do with as they please.

I am fortunate and my heart goes out to you with your wife's condition. That's rough, while we have been fortunate, I know others who have medical issues. Kathy had stage 2 kidney cancer a few years ago and they took her left kidney. Fortunately nothing has returned so we are fortunate. However, I realize that could change tomorrow so have no reservations with enjoying life while we can.

The initial post does not mention a monetary amount to invest in guns or more specific the AR rifles? Sorry if I came across as a buzzkill.

Ron

 

[Ed Ames]

On the subject of buzzkilling... One thing I have learned is that you just don't get guarantees.

My dad went from an active 74 year old who loved to go camping and take his dogs on hikes, go shooting, work on his cars, etc...to wheelchair bound and 100% dependent on others, to gone, faster than his doctors could figure out what was happening to him. Your horizons can shrink so fast it isn't funny.

Which is a large part of why I, at significantly less than retirement age, would own a SCAR if I wanted one.

 

[Sun Tzu warrior]

I would buy very simple .22Lr rifles and ammo. I suspect if a SHTF scenario happens a Stevens favorite copy and a brick of .22lr would bring a premium. If you happen to have several, along with ammo, you could do a lot better than a high end AR. Just my opinion though.
STW

 

[readyeddy]

I love the way this thread evolved.

Get the SCAR. If most of us could accurately predict the future value of assets, we would be too busy managing financial empires to be posting here.

Have fun and rest assured that you have a good gun that may hold its value.

 

[Hoppes Love Potion]

Whatever you do, tap that retirement account! But yourself a high end rifle! You might also consider ammo, classic Smith & Wesson revolvers, or America The Beautiful 5-oz silver coins.

The thing is, when they amended the banking laws a few years ago (Dodd-Frank), the status of your bank and investment accounts changed. You don't actually own your money anymore. Your deposits are considered an unsecured loan to the bank and their property, not yours.

It's a small change, right? You can get your money out anytime you want, right? No, not actually. You can transfer those digits to another bank and it will become that bank's property. But it's difficult to actually withdraw a large sum of your own money. They will want to know what you plan to do with it. You will have to fill out forms. The FBI will be notified for cash withdrawals as small as $5000.

So, buy yourself that high end rifle and any other high quality tool or commodity you can think of. It's the bank's money you're spending, after all.

 

[Reloadron]

Whatever you do, tap that retirement account! But yourself a high end rifle! You might also consider ammo, classic Smith & Wesson revolvers, or America The Beautiful 5-oz silver coins.

The thing is, when they amended the banking laws a few years ago (Dodd-Frank), the status of your bank and investment accounts changed. You don't actually own your money anymore. Your deposits are considered an unsecured loan to the bank and their property, not yours.

It's a small change, right? You can get your money out anytime you want, right? No, not actually. You can transfer those digits to another bank and it will become that bank's property. But it's difficult to actually withdraw a large sum of your own money. They will want to know what you plan to do with it. You will have to fill out forms. The FBI will be notified for cash withdrawals as small as $5000.

So, buy yourself that high end rifle and any other high quality tool or commodity you can think of. It's the bank's money you're spending, after all.

Huh? I call our investment brokers and ask for X amount, I have pulled 20K without a problem. They just ask which account and within 24 to 48 hours the money is automatically deposited into which ever account I choose. We have a few investment accounts which are ROTH IRA and withdrawls from those are tax free. Never had a problem withdrawing money,it was always quick and easy using either an email or phone call. The only issue is when we withdraw over 10K in cash from the bank. Then the government is notified and last time I did that much was cash to buy a truck. Also, if I want to do a large cash withdraw over around 5K the bank likes notified a few days in advance just to make sure they have the cash on hand. Banks, it seems no longer keep large, large amounts of cash on hand.

Do you have a credible link on any of this Dodd / Frank rule is that my money actually belongs to0 the investment broker or bank? I would like to read that portion.

Ron

 

[weggy]

I have a friend that thought firearms would be a good investment. This was many years ago, in the late 60s to the mid 80s. He knew firearms well and bought only good quality pieces that had some collector value. Long story short, he made some money on a few guns but barely broke even on the rest. He found Carson City gold coins to be a MUCH better investment. I would shy away from firearms as an investment, unless you could get and have verified some old gunslingers Colt, or Hitlers Walther!

 

[MIL-DOT]

Not sure if this has been mentiond already, but the OP could just scrap the AR/rifle plan entirely, and buy up used pistols on Armslist and other similar classified sites. There are always good deals surfacing on everything from older revolvers to Glocks to gen3 S&W's to Beretta 92's to 1911's to the polymer Smiths,Rugers,etc.
There are a ton of folks that don't have any firearms at all, that eventually have themselves an epiphany due to any number of things, and these folks seem to always want a pistol first.
I'm a regular wheeler-dealer on my local used scene, buying selling and trading, and I see lots of killer deals go by, on some great stuff that i know will sell for lots more further down the road, and in some cases, almost immediately, if the seller wasn't so impatient.
I would consider scarfing up those sub-$400 Glocks and others as they pop up,and get a case of ammo so you can include a couple boxes with every pistol.
I think you'd have a wider market, and easier time selling pistols, than AR15's.

 

[jrdolall]

Drive through any small town and look at the used car lots. How many of them have top dollar Mercedes and Porsches? How many of them have Camrys and F-150s? Sure there are people looking for a used Mercedes so there are people that sell them but the sheer numbers of people looking to buy a "decent" car is way higher.

Huh? I call our investment brokers and ask for X amount, I have pulled 20K without a problem. They just ask which account and within 24 to 48 hours the money is automatically deposited into which ever account I choose

In August of last year I had to move to GA and bought a house and property. I did't want to finance so I pulled the money from two accounts. One check was sent FedEx and I went downtown and picked up the other from Morgan Stanley. Obviously both were WAY over $20k.

 

[Reloadron]

Drive through any small town and look at the used car lots. How many of them have top dollar Mercedes and Porsches? How many of them have Camrys and F-150s? Sure there are people looking for a used Mercedes so there are people that sell them but the sheer numbers of people looking to buy a "decent" car is way higher.



In August of last year I had to move to GA and bought a house and property. I did't want to finance so I pulled the money from two accounts. One check was sent FedEx and I went downtown and picked up the other from Morgan Stanley. Obviously both were WAY over $20k.

And no problem getting your money right? I never experienced a delay.

While off topic what you did is something we are thinking about. The NE Ohio winters are not very appealing. I have friends in NC, SC, GA, and FL with the thought of moving south getting very appealing. I figure sell up here and go south and if we need, for the house we want, just draw on one of the accounts.

Ron

 

[jrdolall]

While off topic what you did is something we are thinking about. The NE Ohio winters are not very appealing. I have friends in NC, SC, GA, and FL with the thought of moving south getting very appealing. I figure sell up here and go south and if we need, for the house we want, just draw on one of the accounts.

NOOOO!!!!!!! We don't need any more "Damn Yankees"! Yankees are okay but those Damn Yankees...
I don't know where you live, sounds like the Cleveland area, but you can probably get a lot more house and land here than most places. North GA and western NC are very nice with the mountains and seasons. I currently live in central GA and it is just plain miserable here during the summer but it's a sight better than northern Ohio in winter.
Personally I am not a fan FL but it depends on what you are looking for. If you want warm weather all year then south Florida is the place and fishing is a year round deal.

 

[Hoppes Love Potion]

Huh? I call our investment brokers and ask for X amount, I have pulled 20K without a problem. They just ask which account and within 24 to 48 hours the money is automatically deposited into which ever account I choose. We have a few investment accounts which are ROTH IRA and withdrawls from those are tax free. Never had a problem withdrawing money,it was always quick and easy using either an email or phone call. The only issue is when we withdraw over 10K in cash from the bank. Then the government is notified and last time I did that much was cash to buy a truck. Also, if I want to do a large cash withdraw over around 5K the bank likes notified a few days in advance just to make sure they have the cash on hand. Banks, it seems no longer keep large, large amounts of cash on hand.

Do you have a credible link on any of this Dodd / Frank rule is that my money actually belongs to0 the investment broker or bank? I would like to read that portion.

Ron

You essentially proved my point, Ron. It's very easy to transfer funds to another financial institution. But withdrawing cash takes it out of the financial system and puts it into private hands. As you noted, this is where you begin to have "issues". The bank wants prior notice of intent to withdraw any moderately large amount. Any withdrawal or transfer over $10k will generate a report to DHS. I have received a notice from DHS after a purchase of items totaling $9100, saying that I could face charges for "structuring" my purchase in an attempt to avoid reporting rules. So the next purchase from that same vendor I made sure was over $11k. Currently, banks are REQUIRED to file with the FBI a certain amount of Suspicious Activity Reports per month. These will often include withdrawals as low as $3000.

I spent an hour trying to find you a definitive answer that spells out the Dodd-Frank changes in plain English. There is no mainstream news story about this, nor did I expect to find one.

But you can read the Dodd-Frank legislation yourself. The relevant section is TITLE II - Orderly Liquidation Authority. This was passed to prevent another government "bailout" of insolvent banks. Instead, it is a "bail-in" which liquidates equity holders, debt holders, and unsecured creditors (depositors) of the bank. The FDIC is placed in control of the liquidation. The FDIC will not insure your deposits, instead they will convert the deposits to "shares". If your bank or financial institution becomes insolvent, you will get newly issued "shares" in the insolvent bank. The shares may not be liquid and would probably have no actual value anyway.

TITLE II mentions these "unsecured creditors" but the term is never defined in the legislation. I believe the relevant document would be the joint report by the FDIC and Bank of England called “Resolving Globally Active, Systemically Important, Financial Institutions" from December, 2012.

You might also research the G20 meeting in Brisbane, Australia in November, 2014.

 

[Hoppes Love Potion]

In August of last year I had to move to GA and bought a house and property. I did't want to finance so I pulled the money from two accounts. One check was sent FedEx and I went downtown and picked up the other from Morgan Stanley. Obviously both were WAY over $20k.

And those monies remained in the banking system the whole time. The check is a bank debt just as your deposits are a bank debt.

Tell Morgan Stanley you want to withdraw $200,000 IN CASH to buy a house. The reaction would be quite different.

 

[jrdolall]

^^Okay

I closed out an account with my father two months ago at Wells Fargo. They wanted $10 for a cashiers check and he, at 93, refused so they had to round up close to $18k in cash. This transaction took a bank officer (the account was dormant) and two tellers about 30 minutes to round up $18k in 100's. I remarked that they should have just given him a free cashiers check PLUS I wasn't all that happy walking out to the car with that cash in hand. He uses a walker so my attention has to be on him and I can't survey my surroundings like I normally would.

One week later we did the same thing at Region's Bank. The amount was close to the same but they gave him the cashiers check for free.

Of course all of this money, cash and check, immediately went into a CD at another bank but there was no paperwork that I am aware of that was filed on the $18k in cash. I am POA so I was involved in every step. Maybe he will get an inquiry from the IRS later.

 

[Lycidas Janwor]

And those monies remained in the banking system the whole time. The check is a bank debt just as your deposits are a bank debt.

Tell Morgan Stanley you want to withdraw $200,000 IN CASH to buy a house. The reaction would be quite different.

Yep, or try and cash a $20k check... good luck with that!

 

[Hoppes Love Potion]

Of course all of this money, cash and check, immediately went into a CD at another bank but there was no paperwork that I am aware of that was filed on the $18k in cash. I am POA so I was involved in every step. Maybe he will get an inquiry from the IRS later.

The $10k limit is a hard rule, so a DHS report was generated for the $18k cash withdrawal. They normally do not inform the account holder.

My wife and I went through a similar episode at Wachovia in 2008. I had a CD maturing and did not wish to roll it over into an even smaller-paying CD, so I asked for cash. The amount was about $16k. We had to come back the next day and even then it took about an hour. We were taken to a private room where they counted it out. The bank executive asked me why we wanted to much cash. I told her I had read in the Wall Street Journal that Wachovia was insolvent like Lehman Brothers and I wasn't certain the bank would be open tomorrow. She looked at me like I was nuts.

Sure enough, within 1 week Wachovia Bank had ceased to exist. Wikipedia says: Wells Fargo acquired Wachovia after a government-forced sale to avoid a failure of Wachovia.

That same lady is at the Wells Fargo branch now. She still looks at me funny, but I guess doesn't think I'm quite as nuts.

We still use Wells Fargo for checking and day-to-day transactions, but I opened an account in a small regional bank with some of the cash.

 

[Reloadron]

The $10k limit is a hard rule, so a DHS report was generated for the $18k cash withdrawal. They normally do not inform the account holder.

My wife and I went through a similar episode at Wachovia in 2008. I had a CD maturing and did not wish to roll it over into an even smaller-paying CD, so I asked for cash. The amount was about $16k. We had to come back the next day and even then it took about an hour. We were taken to a private room where they counted it out. The bank executive asked me why we wanted to much cash. I told her I had read in the Wall Street Journal that Wachovia was insolvent like Lehman Brothers and I wasn't certain the bank would be open tomorrow. She looked at me like I was nuts.

Sure enough, within 1 week Wachovia Bank had ceased to exist. Wikipedia says: Wells Fargo acquired Wachovia after a government-forced sale to avoid a failure of Wachovia.

That same lady is at the Wells Fargo branch now. She still looks at me funny, but I guess doesn't think I'm quite as nuts.

We still use Wells Fargo for checking and day-to-day transactions, but I opened an account in a small regional bank with some of the cash.

Oh my God, the Wachovia story was funny. Around here I do zero bank normally. Kathleen is content managing the finances and I am fine with that. I do occasionally retrieve the mail from the mailbox so I do my part. Getting a bill from the mailbox to kitchen table is taxing work.

The deviation from the original topic has been fun and enlightening.

So should the original poster take 401K or IRA monies and invest in AR rifles or AR rifle receivers and sundry parts? If Hillary Clinton takes the White House will there be another major gun scare? Have to admit her husband during two terms put more guns on America's streets than Sam Colt ever did. What if a Republican takes the White House? Will our guns be safe? Tis a very fragile system and another Sandy Hook could create another shortage of everything that is shooting. What to do?

Ron

 

[Zaydok Allen]

If the bank asked me what I needed 20K in cash for, my response would be:

"I plan to buy $20,000 worth of Almond Joy Bars, just incase they stop making them...... you know, cuz sometimes you feel like a nut."

or possibly

"I plan to purchase the state of Rhode Island."

It'd be worth it for the looks on their faces.

Ok, back to the topic at hand. I refused to participate in the last AR ban scare, though I definitely should have sold my Sig P556 at the time. Were any particular brands of low to mid range AR's fetching especially good prices at the beginning of the scare, or did they all just fly off the shelves very quickly?

 

[happygeek]

So should the original poster take 401K or IRA monies and invest in AR rifles or AR rifle receivers and sundry parts?

He should watch for another batch of Russsian capture K98s to come up for sale, snap them up around $400 each, re-do the stocks & clean the cosmoline off, then sale them for $700 - 800. Course Mitchell's might try to sue him for stealing their business idea

 

[skywalkrNCSU]

I didn't read the thread so this might have been mentioned already but a high end AR is basically your worst choice as an investment. People who are going to drop serious cash on an AR are going to want one just how they want it and will probably source it out themselves rather than paying a premium to someone on the second hand market.

During a panic the cheap stuff gets snatched up first, Joe Blow who doesn't know about guns isn't going to spend $4k on an AR, he will spend $1k on an AR worth $500 if there aren't anymore $500 ARs.

Things that would make better investments in the AR market are parts. Lowers, BCG's, LPK's mags, etc. People were shelling out serious cash for BCM BCG's during the panic, it was insane. You could have a box of those for what a high end AR would cost.

Honestly though, I would buy ammo above anything else.