I'm into shooting defensive handguns. What now?

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breakingcontact

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Im into training, not just buying stuff for the sake of it although i have considered branching out into other calibers and makes. Im into 9mm S&Ws now. I've been shooting more and starting to compete some in IDPA. I don't just go to the range and blast away, I'm trying to improve accuracy and technique.

I'm planning on putting triggers and sights in some guns.

Where do I go next? I've finally got to where I'm "good" but not great. How do I make the next step?

Pay for some one on one instruction?
Attend a course?
I dry fire and its really good practice. Any laser kits/targets out there?
I've thought of getting a 22LR pistol to shoot more.

If I put money into range/training time I know its well spent.

What else can a guy do to improve his skills and practice?
 
Hmmm... several answers to this. It kind of depends on what your specific goals are.

"Training" is the broad answer, but what kind of training?

If you want to learn to be a better shooting competitor, take competition classes. Many top competitors offer training in the disciplines in which they excel.

If you want to be a better general 'shootist,' courses like those at Gunsite might be the right answer.

Then there are trainers like Tom Givens who are masters of defensive shooting instruction with lots of situation insight and more of a focus on how lethal force encounters develop.

A course from Craig Douglas (SouthNarc) would introduce you to a whole different level of fighting with a handgun. That's contact-distance work which is extremely physical and likely more 'realistic' than anything else you might do.

If you are beginning to think that maybe shooting isn't the ONLY part of the use of force that might be really, really important to understand well, a course that includes an in-depth exploration of the laws that pertain to the justifiable use of force and lethal force might be a really good idea. (Ayoob's MAG-40 is probably the most well-known.)
 
As chipcom suggests, getting heavily into competition -- especially a "practical" or "action" shooting sport like USPSA or IDPA -- will drive you to get better. But it can also drive you to simply push harder into mistakes you're making, trying to get fast times at the expense of fundamentals. (Especially true in USPSA with its lesser focus on accuracy, vs. speed.)

If you can locate a local IDPA club that holds regular practices, that can be a (relatively) cheap way to learn from folks who really know what they're doing without trying to cram a whole lot of instruction into one $400-500 weekend. My club runs a 3-4 hour practice session every Thursday night and we're thrilled to help out shooters, from complete novices up to Masters, work on their technique and get good feedback.

If you can find a club local to you that does something like that, you have the opportunity to really grow as a shooter.

You should STILL try to attend some professional training, but with a few months of guided practice sessions under your belt first you may find that the lessons you're paying for make more sense and you'll get more for your money.
 
USPSA is about speed AND accuracy...but more importantly, movement through a wide variety of scenarios that requires one to think under a little stress.

Yes, it can cause one to just amplify mistakes if one goes into it with the mindset of competing as a sport. But one can also go into it with the mindset of using it to train and develop basic combat pistolcraft. That's how most of us approached it when we started the first USPSA club at NRA Whittington Center 15 years ago. ;)
 
Personally I like training but it depends on what you want to get out of it. If you pick training, I'd go with a well known instructor such as Clint Smith, Loui Awerbuck, Gun Site, etc.

Another direction would be to build up some of your skills in rifles and shotguns.

If you havent done so, take an Appleseed course with a semi auto 22 LR. It's the best $100 you will spend and you will learn a great deal about markman ship.

Another direction is some sort of shotgun clay shooting sport. They're lots of fun, don't have to cost much as you can get by with a pump.
 
USPSA is about speed AND accuracy...but more importantly, movement through a wide variety of scenarios that requires one to think under a little stress.
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Of course, all the "action/practical" sports are. USPSA gives a slightly, but noticeably, higher value to speed than to accuracy -- as compared to some other sports. Probably not an important distinction at the OP's level, though. But there is a risk that you can get complacent with dropping low hits because they're still "A"s in USPSA. It's all good, though.

Yes, it can cause one to just amplify mistakes if one goes into it with the mindset of competing as a sport. But one can also go into it with the mindset of using it to train and develop basic combat pistolcraft. That's how most of us approached it when we started the first USPSA club at NRA Whittington Center 15 years ago.
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Yes indeed, that was what Col. Cooper & friends had in mind when they invented IPSC (which of course eventually spawned USPSA) back in the '70s. Unfortunately (well, depending on your point of view) few well-ranked USPSA competitors focus at all on what might be considered defensive shooting. I won't even suggest that most good IDPA shooters do, either, though.

That's why I say if you want to advance in the SPORTS you need a competition instructor. If you want to focus on truly "practical" defensive shooting, a competition shooter won't deliver what you need to focus on.

...

Not knowing our OP's relative level of skill, though, it is hard to make a clear recommendation. Many, many, many gun owners and 'shooters' would benefit from ANY gun-handling and "practical" shooting instruction of any sort. The initial bit of the learning curve between, "I own a gun" and "Competent and Safe on a non-square range" is enough of a hurdle in itself.
 
cross-train with other shooting disciplines. Keep doing IDPA but consider trying bullseye, sporting clays, benchrest, etc. All of them will help make you a more well-rounded shooter.

It's pretty impressive when you watch someone put 10 shots from a 1911 in a 3" circle in 20 seconds at 25 yards off-hand. Consistently.
 
I've finally got to where I'm "good" but not great.
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Maybe if you could quantify good for us.

What is your accuracy like at 7 yards, 15 yards, 20 yards?
How fast can you shoot accurately, 3 or 4 shots a second?
How smooth is your presentation to the first shot out of a holster...how fast?
How smooth are your magazine changes?

Get down some solid fundamentals before you start into tactical stuff...you'll get more out of technique classes if you don't have to worry about the basics

In your area, I'd look up Wayne Dobbs. I've done some training with him and he knows his stuff, has having real world experience and is an excellent teacher
 
9mmepiphany said:
What is your accuracy like at 7 yards, 15 yards, 20 yards?
How fast can you shoot accurately, 3 or 4 shots a second?
How smooth is your presentation to the first shot out of a holster...how fast?
How smooth are your magazine changes?

In your area, I'd look up Wayne Dobbs. I've done some training with him and he knows his stuff, has having real world experience and is an excellent teacher
Click to expand...

Will look up Mr Dobbs.

As far as the specific questions. I don't know. If a really good shooter watched me shoot i believe he would recognize I am very safe, move reasonably well and make good accurate hits at reasonable speed. He would also identify my flaws, whereas I would be impressed by his accuracy/speed/movement. Sorry for the vague answer. As far as the IDPA set I shoot with, I'm in the middle of the pack.

As far as my specific interests, its definitely in defensive shooting. I am interesting in MMA and know we have Krav Maga schools in ATX.

I think ill look for a local defensive pistol instructor and see if the rates are reasonable. Maybe see if some guys from work want in on it. I really like the idea of IDPA practice, perhaps the more I get involved I can start doing that. We have two local clubs. Perhaps the other one offers practice. (I haven't shot with them yet.)

Thanks all.
 
Unless you are adding calibers for the sake of collection, I would stick with 9mm, and stick with one gun.

I have noticed that guys who stay with one platform tend to improve their shooting much faster than those that jump from gun to gun.
 
I've met Mike and that's the IDPA group I shoot with. I don't shoot with them as often as I'd like as they usually shoot in Austin on Sunday and that is church. There are some upcoming Saturday matches though.

Thanks for the help though. This group shoots at Austin Rifle Club. There's another group, caps or capitol IDPA that shoots at Best of the West.

I may try and pick up a 22 pistol as well.

Thanks all for helping me in this endeavor. I like other firearms and enjoy shooting them but if I ever have to use a firearm in self defense it will most likely be a pistol so I want to train with that. Also its just plain fun and a great challenge.
 
Mike and I both worked IDPA Nationals back in '08, and Bubba was the CSO on my stage that year. :) Small world, eh?
 
First, I'll congratulate you on doing more than standing on a square range and blasting mindlessly. Yes, it's fun and everyone enjoys it now and again, but it's of limited utility.

Second, I'll encourage you to take some classes. Find a school near you and contact them, telling them your experience level and goals. They'll be able to point you to classes that suit your needs. Classes will help you advance at a pace that would take a lot longer just observing and absorbing at a IDPA or other shoot.

Take what you learn at the classes and apply it, refining and maintaining the skills, at your chosen sport.
 
I agree that compressing the training into a proper formal class may improve my skills more than a year of regular training.

Running through an IDPA stage is fun. But running it over and over again improving accuracy and speed would be great training.

If I end up taking a class ill post about it on the forum.

As expensive as shooting is and as rare as range time is, recording may be a good idea if I can't have someone there to "coach" me and make on the spot corrections.

Its been humbling going from novice shooter to "experienced amateur" or whatever I am now. Too many people blast away at the range and carry a gun with a false confidence of their skills. I don't want to be another one of those folks. I plan on dry firing more. It really helps me a lot.
 
it is important to remember that all of the gun games are games. They are not training.

They all help you learn good skills. But training they are not.
 
I used to only shoot pistols at the range. I'm not exactly sure why, but one day I got the urge to see what shotgunning for clays would be like. I can't believe I had waited so long! Busting clays is so much fun. Shotgun ammo is pretty cheap, a box of clays is extremely reasonable price wise, and it provides me with some much needed variety in the open air when I get tired of handgun or rifle practice at the range.
 
breakingcontact said:
Running through an IDPA stage is fun. But running it over and over again improving accuracy and speed would be great training.
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I'd just like to say that this isn't training, it is only practice. In training, your performance is observed and corrections made...which can then be practiced

As expensive as shooting is and as rare as range time is, recording may be a good idea if I can't have someone there to "coach" me and make on the spot corrections.
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While we can make suggestion, coaching is really beyond what can be done on-line. That is the advantage of working with a teacher. They can observe, make corrections, and observe the results

I don't want to be another one of those folks. I plan on dry firing more. It really helps me a lot.
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Be aware that without knowledge of the correct techniques, extensive practice can ingrain bad habits
 
Quote:
Running through an IDPA stage is fun. But running it over and over again improving accuracy and speed would be great training.

No it's not. It's re-hashing the same thing over and over. What happens when the next stage or scenario offers a different challenge or circumstances? You've learned no principles or fundamentals to base decision and action upon, you've merely ingrained a rote response that is applicable to only one of myriad possibilities.

Keep in mind, too, that as much as you, me and everyone else who has ever participated enjoys the "gun games", they are just that. Concentrating on times sacrifices tactics. A well trained shooter and tactician will complete a stage very quickly, but a lot slower than the guy who is competing simply for the clock. The tactician is competing for the clock AND sound tactics.
 
Getting better at shooting handguns has many parallels with other sports and how to improve performance:

1. Most don't get very far without a coach or trainer.
2. Practice should be evaluated to avoid ingraining poor habits.
3. Practice should be regular and disciplined to focus on specific needs that will contribute to improved performance.
4. Set measurable goals and track progress.

Otherwise, just have fun and don't sweat the small stuff. The choice is yours.
 
Do not confuse practice or repetition with training. Training requires instruction, and instruction requires instructors.
 
I got into the training game late and wasted one heck of a lot of time and money previously.

Get what you can afford as soon as you can. If Sam says someone's OK, you can take that to the bank.
 
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