I'm lost, does anyone have a 9mm compass?

[Jed Carter]

My choice for the daily beater was a CZ 75D PCR, I chose it over the Glock G19 (another great choice). Hold one and you will know why, shoot one and never look back. My carry rotation includes the SIG P232, the smaller but less recoil SIG P238, SIG P239 .357SIG and the CZ PCR 9mm. It depends on how I dress or the weather what I take with me. For a good HD and range pistol that will carry well I would stay with a compact not a subcompact; ie. Glock G19 compact, Glock G26 subcompact.

 

[Nushif]

Seriously, those "finger rest" floor-plates are a placebo, the smallest finger adds no significant stability to the grip, particularly when there's no palm behind it to squeeze against.

Could not agree more, I really don't know why people insist they have to have them.

 

[sidheshooter]

One more big fat +1 for big fat Dave. I think he's just about covered the bases. If I was to add anything, it might be the idea of a clean, used 3rd gen S&W like the 3913. That would also fit all the OP criteria, all while feeling better in the hand than the new school doublestack polymer pieces (IMHO).

 

[bigfatdave]

I know jack about S&W ... hence the lack of S&W coverage.

+1 on the concept of buying what is comfortable in the hand, though. Ergonomics matter more than anything in a handgun. Reliability can be achieved, ammo can be hand-picked, capacity can be augmented with reloads and extended mags, concealment can be had with the photographer's vest of denial...
... but nothing will fix a grip that doesn't work for you, so figure that out first!

 

[Storm]

Walther PPS....absolutely.

Then, a Walther P99C (or SW99C)

If not, consider an M&P9Compact.

If you would prefer a hammer fire DA/SA pistol, then the S&W 3913 or even the CS9.

I'd also throw in the Hk P2000SK as they can sometimes be found in that price range used. Mine is in .40 and a LEM and I paid a couple lunches at McDonalds north of $600 for mine (assuming a big eater) and it's superb.

The Steyr S9 is also well worth considering.

 

[SaMx]

$600 for a USP compact seems like a really good price. If you like the gun, and can afford it, I would get it.

 

[basicblur]

I know jack about S&W ... hence the lack of S&W coverage.

As an owner of a 4013TSW (similar in operation to the Smith mentioned), the one thing I really hate about it is the safety:
1. Bass ackwards-I prefer 1911/USPC style safeties-flip down for fire (not up)!
2. Don't really like slide mounted safeties-prefer frame mounted
3. Even if you are stuck with a "backwards" safety, why put the pivot point behind the actual lever? Wouldn't it be more ergonomic to put the pivot point in front of the lever so you don't have to reach over the pivot point to activate?

One of those "tricks" is to not flip the safety up, but instead to push your thumb forward to flip it off. It works, but it's still not as ergonomic/user friendly as a 1911 style downward sweep-right to your shooting grip.
Mebbe I'm not the norm, but my thumb works much better up/down than forward/back-more comfortable and much less sympathetic finger reflex.

Methinks somebody at S&W tried to reinvent the wheel with that safety?

 

[basicblur]

I really don't know why people insist they have to have them.

It's not really a question of "having" to have them, but with the Pearce grip extender I have better control of the gun than without. Grab an XDSC with the short mag-now wave it around like a maniac (mebbe you should unload it first!)-try the same with the Pearce Grip Extender-tell me you can't tell a difference!

Well knowing you probably don't wave it around like a maniac when you shoot, how 'bout if you're in a struggle for your weapon?

To each his own-yeah, I don't doubt I might be able to shoot just as well without it, but it does provide me with extra control of the gun, and you never know when that might come in handy!

BTW-the long mags are my spares-I figure if I ever find myself in a situation where I need a reload, I've waded into something really deep and will probably want all the rounds I can get.

 

[bigfatdave]

tell me you can't tell a difference!

I can, the gun is less concealable for very little added ergonomic control.

how 'bout if you're in a struggle for your weapon?

If I was in a struggle, I highly doubt the smallest finger will make a difference, the first one which is conveniently located on the felon repulsion lever might, and a flat magazine bottom makes for better bonkin'.

the long mags are my spares

Same here, for both my carry guns (PPS has two more in the spares than the flush-fit super-concealable mag, 1911 has one extra)
But most of my training time is with those flush-fit mags, because the goal is to end an armed encounter as rapidly as possible, the reloads are for malfunctions as much as for a "sustained gun battle", if you need a third magazine (or even a second) you don't have too few rounds, you have too few friends.

 

[GETxSOME]

$600 for a USP compact seems like a really good price. If you like the gun, and can afford it, I would get it.

SaMx, thats exactly what I was thinking. I could always carry it for awhile and if it turned out to be too cumbersome for me, I would have an excellent excuse to buy another gun..... darn. And after purchasing a new sweet carry gun, I would have the USPc as an excellent range/HD gun to go with my SW Model 64 that I love so dearly.

SO many responses, I really appreciate the feedback even though this question has probably been through the forum 1000 times. Being patient with a FNG.. the sign of a good forum.

An older customer of mine that I talk guns with came into my store today (DVD rental and tanning) and brought his carry gun with him. It was a small Taurus Millenium in .40cal.. I wanna say PT150? I don't know jack about Taurus, other than all the poor things people tend to say about them on here. It felt great in my hand, reminded me of smaller P99 grip. Any words about this model, and does it come in 9mm?

Lastly, if I found a gun that I liked all the stats about, but the grip felt awkward.. wouldn't it be relatively easy to find an aftermarket grip to satisfy my ergonomical (is that a word? lol) needs?

P.S.
Sorry for the longwindedness, trying to cover a lot of ground!

 

[basicblur]

It was a small Taurus Millenium in .40cal.. I wanna say PT150?

That would be a PT140-I have a PT145 (2nd Generation-they're now up to 3rd).
Not gonna rehash old stuff I've already posted, but despite my misgivings, there was so much to like 'bout the PT145 that I took a chance a few years back.

Lots of nice features, size, comfort, round count etc, but I usually tell folks the one thing I don't like about it is it's made by Taurus.

You can draw your own conclusions...

And yes, they do make it in a 9mm.

 

[basicblur]

First, bigfatdave said:

Seriously, those "finger rest" floor-plates are a placebo.

Then he said (emphasis mine):

for very little added ergonomic control.

Now we’re coming around...we’ve gone from placebo to “very little added ergonomic control”!
"Very little" may be subjective, but "added ergonomic control" ain't no placebo!

Apology accepted!

 

[Marshall]

If you like the HK and it fits you well, buy it. The price is right!

There are a number of very nice 9mm's and the HK USP-C is one of them. I would consider it as one of the top guns in its class.


Additionally, if you still want to touch and feel, you might consider the PX-4 Compact from Beretta to the guns already suggested by others.

 

[collector rob]

If you like the Walther 380, have you considered a S&W99?
Buds has polce trade-ins for $289.00

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/910/products_id/411540803

 

[BHP FAN]

I'd get a nice Milsurp Argentine Hi-Power,and be done.

 

[AKElroy]

Back to the G19; If this is going to be a CCW, DO NOT discount the importance of readily available holsters & mags. They are everywhere for the 19; the only other holsters in similar supply are 1911's.

Spend a few minutes searching for FITTED options for the other choices listed and factor that into the mix.

 

[GETxSOME]

Sorry to all you Glock lovers out there, but Glock is out of the running. I spent a good amount of time with a couple of them yesterday and they felt absolutely ugly in my hands. However, I also spent some time with a XDSC and an XDM.. I am really impressed with both of these guns. Call me a sucker for a placebo, but that extended mag felt great in my hand!

BUT, I went back to Gander Mtn again yesterday, and the guy at the gun counter said he would go down from $629 to $575. I didn't even haggle for this, so how much should I try to haggle him down?

 

[shockwave]

Now we’re coming around...we’ve gone from placebo to “very little added ergonomic control”!
"Very little" may be subjective, but "added ergonomic control" ain't no placebo!

Thank for saving me the trouble of having to write that. The addition of the little finger on a grip is something I definitely notice. I wouldn't be looking so hard at the Ruger SR9c if it didn't have this feature. The Glock 30 I tried out felt like it was twisting and squirming in my hand and I did NOT like that feeling at all.

 

[Skylerbone]

Well...how's that compass working for you so far? Everyone has their own ideas, some are confined by experience.

I have a Smith M&P in .40, bought mid-March with nearly 800 rounds through it without a single failure. 175 gr SWCs, 165 & 180 gr FMJs, 155 & 180 gr HPs. Nothing trips it up and THAT is what's most important in a SD pistol PERIOD!

Ergonomics can be had. New sights can be had. You cannot make chicken salad out of chicken s**t. There are plenty of good reliable pistols out there and choosing one will indeed be a matter of personal preference. Remember though with a used gun you never know exactly what you're getting. I shoot roughly 150 rounds a week through mine, wanna buy it from me in 4 years?

Ask the military guys how many choices GIs are given in side arm if you think ergonomics can't be overcome.

Good luck and finally I'll suggest these: Smith & Wesson M&P, Glock 17 or 19, Springfield XDm (in no particular order). They are all reliable, proven, rugged and fun to shoot. All of them can be used, without fumbling in an SD situation.

 

[basicblur]

Call me a sucker for a placebo, but that extended mag felt great in my hand!

Feels much better than the short mag, but if you get the chance, try a short mag with the Pearce Grip Extender. I think it actually feels better than the long mag, but it probably depends on your hand size? I keep telling the guys at the local shop they need to have a Pearce installed on a displayed XD, as I see a lot of folks checking 'em out, but they look to me like they're mulling over that dangling pinky. He stocks a few Pearce extenders, but usually Glocks only, and they're hanging on the wall.

BUT, I went back to Gander Mtn again yesterday, and the guy at the gun counter said he would go down from $629 to $575. I didn't even haggle for this, so how much should I try to haggle him down?

Can't tell ya 'bout the XDM, but in my neck o' the woods, an XDSC goes for $475 (I paid $535 with Trijicons). 'Course, we're blessed with a "no dicker" shop-he hangs a low price on his stuff and that's it. Unless I find something on sale, I've pretty much given up on other shops-I hate dickering over price.

I've read of folks in here buying a "stripped" XD-just the gun-none of the extras they foist on you with the usual models. Don't know how available these are, in what calibers, and how much cheaper, but I wish I had known 'bout it before I bought my last XDSC.
The extras ain't bad, but I'd save the money and buy your own stuff. An UPLULA beats the heck outta the XD speedloader, and maybe a DeSantis holster and mag pouch instead of the XD models?

Don't know how many choices you have in your area, but you need to search out a small gun shop-they often have the best prices.

EDIT

Sorry to all you Glock lovers out there, but Glock is out of the running. I spent a good amount of time with a couple of them yesterday and they felt absolutely ugly in my hands.

Tell me you didn't go there! Expect someone to be along shortly to accuse you of being a Glock hater!
Anywho-apparently you don't have a "Glock wrist". They never pointed naturally for me, and since there are plenty of other choices around, I never owned one.
Just for giggles, I like to shut my eyes and aim at my target-if a gun points naturally for me, when I open my eyes it's darn close to being on target.
When doing my usual dry fire practice, I often use the closed eyes drill to retain ye olde muscle memory-sure helps with bringing the gun into a firing position quickly.

 

[Girodin]

For me I can shoot my G26 just as well with my little finger under the grip as I can with an extended grip. Where I have found the grip makes a notable difference is when I am drawing to draw quickly from concealed under stress. I get a better grip on it and my first shots are quicker. That was reason enough for me carry with the extension. Extra capacity is a bonus and the gun still conceals more easily than my G19. Use what works for you. Test your equipment choices through rigorous use to determine what works best.

I'll add two more suggestions one that I have not seen mentioned in this thread and one that has been but I think bears repeating. In fact I had to have a few people tell me how great it was before I bothered to give it a serious look but I'm glad I did.

Kahr CW9: The CW is the only model of the kahr line up that is under $500. I see them locally for right around $400 new. The kahr is a very good size for a carry gun. It is thin and conceals very well. Its slender frame is makes it pretty easy to conceal. The price you pay is mag capacity. I believe it is 7+1. Kahrs have a lot going for them as carry guns. My particular K9 (which was a very early gun I got it a number of years ago, back when nobody seemed to know what a Kahr was) is somewhat ammo sensitive. This is the one thing that keeps it from being one of my favorites. I’ve talked to a number of Kahr owners that say their much newer Kahrs do not have this issue. I got all excited about the EMP because I like 1911s so much and it seem pretty cool. When I shot it side by side with my Kahr I was forced to admit the EMP didn’t do anything the Kahr didn’t already do (although it was not ammo sensitive). I have nearly bought another Kahr on a number of occasions and almost certainly will in time.

The one already mentioned:

Steyr M9/M9A1: These are very fine pistols that just didn't catch on in the US do to poor marketing. The stery is roughly the size of a Glock 19 but has a notably thinner grip and a 17+1 mag capacity. They have a very low bore axis (lower than most) and this provides for minimal muzzle flip and perceived recoil allowing for very fast follow ups. I find the trigger to be preferable to those on my Glocks. I've had a number of people who claim to not like the Glock grip comment that they greatly prefer the steyr when I let them try it.

There are some cons to the steyr. First they do not import them anymore so you

Are limited to buying them used. I wouldn’t, however, let that alone dissuade me and they can be bought for about the same price as a used Glock. Magazines are available online for roughly the same price as a Glock ($28 for the 15 rounders). The 17 round mags that are only ever so slightly longer are like $38. One can get a good holster but there are fewer options. There is not the aftermarket support there is for other makes but honestly you can get everything you need. Really IMHO the only thing the stery needs is a good holster and a mag pouch. Some people like to change the sights because they do not like the unique trap sights. You won’t find any Steyr stuff in your corner gun shop.

Overall the steyr is a simply awesome pistol that few people knew/know about. In many ways I believe the statement “It’s like a Glock but better” is true. I haven't shot an S9 which is a more compact model but I would like to try one.

The FM hi powers were mentioned and the can be purchased for $320 but it will run you $20 shipping and say a $25 transfer fee (some are more or less). That’s close enough in price to used Steyrs and Glocks which IMHO make better carry guns. Not that the Hi power is not a very fine and serviceable weapon. It is definitely worthy of consideration

 

[Nushif]

I fondled the XD subcompact the other day and it did feel really good.

As for the "Glock Wrist" it really does seem to be just that. Most people I've talked to about it and who've even fondled one seem to know the moment they hold it whether they can fire them or not. Me, the only one (so far) that feels good for me is the 26, so I get ya when you say it didn't feel right.

 

[Girodin]

Most people I've talked to about it and who've even fondled one seem to know the moment they hold it whether they can fire them or not.

No many people make an assumption about whether they can fire it or not the moment they hold one, and often I think they have made it before then. Undoubtedly if you shoot one type of gun the most you will likely preform better with it if you are put to some sort of objective test. That said all the people I know who can really shoot can shoot any functioning gun you hand them pretty well. Take a guy like Travis Haley or Clint Smith or Costa and hand them any decent gun and they will shoot it pretty well. That said I know Costa ran a grip reduced Glock. Consistency of feel does make a difference.

I'm not saying that something might not feel more natural or just feel more comfortable. I'm also not saying that it is wrong to start there and buy that gun why wouldn't you? I am saying that acting like there is some dramatic difference in shooting a glock and xd or 1911 or a sig etc etc is silly. If you just cannot make it work at all the issue is the shooter not the gun.

I shot 1911s for a long time before I bought a Glock. Yes they felt different in my hand when I first held them but when I actually went out and shot them surprise surprise I could still hit stuff. The more shot my glocks the more they started to be the gun that felt good and natural in my hand. I still have an affection for 1911s that I don't have for Glocks but I also really like a lot of things about Glocks and am glad I didn't convince my self I couldn't shoot them

 

[Nushif]

Oh no doubt ... Personally ... all the rifles I've met have felt uncomfortable ... and none of the handguns have, to be honest.
Some of them may have felt less than nice and others quite nice, but pretty much any handgun can be shoot at 7 yards ... I really don't think that takes too much skill.
Personally I am jonesing after a 26 badly. Ask household-6 she's tired of hearing about them. But that doesn't mean I don't love my 3 inch 1911 to pieces.

 

[cwl1862]

A couple more that may still be available on the used market that would be worth your consideration, any of the 3rd gen S&W metal framed pistols 3913, 908, 5906 etc all good firearms, and there are some great used guns out there at reasonable prices. Don't sell the full size Ruger SR-9 short either it's a good weapon too, & and their price is really reasonable, good quality gun too.