I'm new to BP - give me some advice please

[Box T]

I've lurked on THR for awhile and really appreciate all of the insite everyone on THR shares with each other. I'd like to solicit a little advice from some of the folks here - about a year ago I picked up a 54 cal. percussion cap Hawken replica and a Pedersoli 12 gauge SxS percussion cap shotgun.

Concerning the Hawken - I've just shot it off-hand at the ranch and haven't had any good range time to really get it dialed in with different loads. I've shot some patched balls for fun - I imagine the rate of twist is too fast for them to be accurate. I've shot some 310 grain Buffalo Ball-ets with varrying powder loads - how much Goex FFg of FFFg would you advise me to load with that bullet? I've also tried the four-hundred and whatever grained TC "cheek bruisers" I'm going to have to work myself back up to those.

Concerning the shotgun - I've just shot it with 1.25 or 1.125 oz of #7.5 with 80-90 grains of Goex FFg, using ~0.125 inch thick cardboard "wads" and thin cardboard overshot wads. I finally broke my first clay with this gun last week after about 10 total shots. Part of my problem may have been that I had it over choked - I had the modified and full in, and just switched to IC and modified. I'd appreciate any advice on loads for this gun as well.

Concerning cleaning - I had been using Hoppe's black powder solvent and finishing with gun oil, but this is not working (I noticed a tiny amount of surface rust inside the Hawken the last time out of the safe). Should I switch to hot soapy water and then finish with TC Bore Butter?

As a final note - I'd like to thank all of the Moderators/Administrators and posters who make this such a great (and rather addicting) site!

I'm off to the gun show for a few hours but I'll be back tonight.

 

[Pancho]

It is helpful to know what rate of twist your rifling is. Slow twists like 1in 60 shoot roundball best. 1 in 48 rifles are compromises and can shoot roundball and maxieball. Fast twist like 1in 24 like maxieball and sabots. Let us know if you need to know how to determine your twist.
As for cleaning, most use very hot tap water and dish soap to clean the gun and borebutter works pretty well as a final coating. Gun oil should be thoroughly cleaned out of the barrel before shooting. It is a widely held belief that any oil or grease using petrochemicals will gum up in the presence of BP.
BTW who made the plains rifle?

 

[mykeal]

You didn't mention using a cushion wad between the overpowder wad and the shot column. If not moderated by a cushion wad the pressure wave will tend to expel the center of the shot column faster than the edges due to friction along the wall of the barrel. The result is a hole in the pattern (a 'doughnut-shaped' pattern). You will have much better long range results if you include a 1/2" thick fiber wad on top of the overpowder card.

And take a wander around this page:
http://members.aye.net/~bspen/shotgun.html

I don't use conicals or sabotted rounds in my sidelocks, so I can't help with that question beyond what Pancho has already said.

 

[Box T]

Pancho - I'm pretty sure its 1:48. I didn't know about the gun oil needing to be removed - no wonder I was getting so much fouling after just a few shots! (a note on this in another thread) The Hawken is nothing interesting - just an Interarms from Cabela's.

mykeal - I haven't been using a cushion wad - maybe that's why I was having a problem hitting things! The link you provided says: "Use the same volume of powder and shot" (e.g. 1.25 oz and 1.25 oz) This is an interesting concept I'll have to remember.

Here's another question - the Hawken has what looks to be a stainless steel nipple and I'm getting what looks to be a little dissimilar metals/electrolysis style corrosion around it after a few months in the safe. A guy at the gun shop said he uses CorrosionX on his guns and doesn't have this problem - should I do this or remove the nipple for storage?

Thanks for the help - you guys rock!

 

[mykeal]

The 'corrosion' you're seeing is not dissimilar metals but salts from the cap ignition by-products. When you clean out the nipple (I assume you remove it for cleaning after shooting) be sure to use a bp solvent on a patch in the area around the nipple mount, including the cavity it rests in. Then, when reinstalling the nipple use a thread anti-sieze on the nipple threads (I use TC's Bear Grease).

 

[arcticap]

I'm not really sure that a BP shotgun can be overchoked for clay pigeon shooting because even choked BP shotguns tend to shoot much more open patterns than modern shotguns do.
What yardage are you shooting clays at?
If it's anything over 25 or 30 yards then I personally would use the tighter chokes.
Also, with my shotgun that's threaded for choke tubes, I found that installing an extended choke greatly helped with my loading procedure. I'm able to rapidly unscrew the extended choke, load, and then re-install it. That way I can even stuff in a modern plastic shotgun wad into the bore if I want to and maximize the shot pattern, all without being hindered by fouling, the choke tube threads or requiring a choke tube wrench.
Extended chokes are relatively inexpensive if the threading is available from an outfit like Carlson's choke tubes at http://www.choketube.com/
If the threading isn't known or recognized they will need to see and measure it for comparison.
Plastic shotshell wads can really help to tighten up an open BP shot pattern, and using thick wadding underneath helps to protect the plastic from melting. At least it did for me while using Pyrodex.
As far as the size of the shot load, I think that BP shotguns can easily handle an extra dose of shot, especially if a plastic wad isn't being used.
So why not try increasing the shot load by another 1/4 ounce and going back to using the tighter chokes?
Did you ever pattern your shotgun against a patterning board at a known yardage to see how the point of aim and shot pattern is distributed? Maybe the reason why you were missing the clays wasn't due to the tighter chokes but because of the regulation of the barrels, or because of your point of aim due to the stock.
Pattern testing should be among the first shotgun shooting experiments performed with a new shotgun, in order to be better able to determine where to aim to lead the bird for better success at breaking it.
I've never tried the soft wool wad bore buttons for shotguns, but some folks like to double them up to use as a base wad because they can be squeezed past the choke constriction more easily due to their flexibility. Plus it's provides more of a cushion to help not deform the shot.
This material can also be purchased in bulk from www.durofelt.com - (Item FM18H) which can be located below:

http://www.durofelt.com/image_26.html

 

[Pancho]

Box T, Obviously you've got a lot of tedious but enjoyable work ahead of you to get your guns to shoot to your expectations. I can't speak to the shot guns but you've got the guys here that will.
Your 1 in 48 doesn't really rule out any bp round. It is a compromise twist. To get this gun to shoot to your satisfaction will take time and effort on your part but there is nothing that says this gun won't shoot as well as you can.

 

[Macmac]

With the shot gun, using news print to have real big paper targets is one way to pattern the gun. You draw a 36 inch circle and choose your distance.

I prefer 15 yards at first to reduce walking. You can check out powders, shot weight, and all the chokes you have and not die from walking 400 miles to replace paper.

Once you get some where you think works back off the target to 30 yards, and do this all over again.

80 and 90 grains off FFg isn't unreasonable, but lesser charges than that are also common. I can run as little as 40 grains of FFg and can hunt partridge with this load, up close. I wouldn't use that for ducks though...

You can just about duplicate modern loads in many ways, and then do more than most store bought loads can do at all.

What you do depends on your needs.

With clays you will likely find you need to lead more to break targets crossing.

That hawken can be checked for twist with the ram rod, a little masking tape, a pencil and a ruller of 12 inches.

Run the rammer down patched and tape it at the muzzel, mark it, then pull the rod 12" out see how many parts of a turn the rod made.