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savagelover
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No plans to hot rod them...just starting out.
Lol
Lol
Imr 4350/h4350 ?
- Thread starter savagelover
- Start date
AJC1
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What mag pistol powders do you have.... I know you run 357.
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savagelover
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I have several. But,I lack bullseye
AJC1
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Well your not going to put Bullseye in a 6mm
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savagelover
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Unique,red dot.4227.2400,blue dot.trail boss.etc
AJC1
Member
Use the 85 grain bullet load and 4227 and test away.... I actually like 2400 in the 6.5x55 but one should start in the data first
cheoah
Member
And it still might be your shortest lived barrel! I do think handloading can mitigate the throat erosion by generally using moderate loads, but I don't know how bullet weight or material affects wear. Maybe leading protects the throat lol
I think shooting .243 is what will compel me to start doing barrel work on my lathe but I haven't ruined one yet.
AJC1
Member
If you use a small powder load of a fast burning powder and a lead bullet, it won't last forever but nothing else will last longer. 40 grain loads to 18 isn't compatible for heat
243winxb
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GeoDudeFlorida
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I’m down to two pounds of IMR 4198 plus a few drams in an old bottle. I wish I had bunches of it. IMR 4227 and Hercules 2400 are both made with this type of application in mind but you might have to reach for tested loads. I’m thinking magazines or pet loads articles. The .243Win is a cartridge from the jacketed bullets era. I think trying to force H4350 to fit a use-case with no data is a bad idea but I tend to be pretty conservative.
BushMaster-15
member
Certainly No offense meant but I'd like to ask ; WHY use cast bullets in Rifles period ,when jacketed are just not that expensive ?.
I understand people cast their own ,but generally either older slower cartridges or pistol loads ,which again are slower .
Now I use cast bullets with and without gas checks in MY .44 mag. as well as .45 Acp . However I don't have slower Rifle calibers ,so NO cast bullets .
I understand people cast their own ,but generally either older slower cartridges or pistol loads ,which again are slower .
Now I use cast bullets with and without gas checks in MY .44 mag. as well as .45 Acp . However I don't have slower Rifle calibers ,so NO cast bullets .
AJC1
Member
I posted the 243 picture from my cast manual, it had all the data the op would need. When I say a bunch that's shortage scale of 4.5 pounds. I've loaded my first half pound between 308 and 30-30 and not pulled the trigger yet. I could now probably be on the schedule of a lot of these guys where I can shoot all year with what's loaded.
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savagelover
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LOLBELL
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savagelover, I’d go over to “castboolits.com” to seek answers. I’m not knocking anyone’s opinion here, but those guys live and breathe shooting cast.
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savagelover
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I know I visit there once ina while.. thanks
JFrank
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If reloaders did not experiment with powders we would all be shooting the same loads, pick a powder in the appropriate burn rate and start low with a charge ladder to qualify or eliminate that powder. If your firearm doesn’t like the combination you’ll see it quickly on the target.
AJC1
Member
70s-90s is the cast boolit zone. Pick one and party till you hit pay dirt or the pound is gone and mulligan.
GeoDudeFlorida
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And the prize for mixing metaphors goes to…
I think the final answer is, I4350 and H4350 are not interchangeable and the lack of cast data indicates it’s not a best-use-case for the intended platform.
P Flados
Member
The 243 is not the most popular gun for cast bullets.
I am not sure how much help you are going to get with actual experience or published load data. Of the powders you listed, Red Dot is one of the most common fast powders used for reduced power rifle loads.
Here is some Quickload info. I chose one bullet diameter for seating depth to keep the gas check in the neck. I chose several different calculated chamber pressures and ran your powders that I would be willing to try if it were my gun.
I am not sure how much help you are going to get with actual experience or published load data. Of the powders you listed, Red Dot is one of the most common fast powders used for reduced power rifle loads.
Here is some Quickload info. I chose one bullet diameter for seating depth to keep the gas check in the neck. I chose several different calculated chamber pressures and ran your powders that I would be willing to try if it were my gun.
Code:
Cartridge : .243 Win.
Bullet : .243, 87gr x 0.80 inch long
Seating depth : .243 inch
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.601 inch = 66.07 mm
Barrel Length : 21.0 inch = 533.4 mm
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Alliant RED DOT 33.5 7.9 0.51 1606 100.0 20000 2779 1.674
Alliant UNIQUE 30.8 9.4 0.61 1730 100.0 20000 3360 1.665
Alliant 2400 33.9 15.2 0.98 2006 100.0 20000 5438 1.651
Hodgdon H4227 45.5 19.6 1.27 2079 99.2 20000 6597 1.649
IMR 4227 45.0 19.4 1.26 2068 98.7 20000 6496 1.643
Alliant RED DOT 51.9 12.2 0.79 2000 100.0 35000 4147 1.280
Alliant UNIQUE 45.2 13.7 0.89 2113 100.0 35000 4734 1.276
Alliant 2400 45.6 20.4 1.32 2412 100.0 35000 6835 1.264
Hodgdon H4227 58.9 25.4 1.65 2510 100.0 35000 7960 1.268
IMR 4227 58.5 25.3 1.64 2505 100.0 35000 7916 1.262
IMR 4350 83.1 39.0 2.52 2603 90.3 35000 10576 1.290
Hodgdon H4350 *T 84.7 39.1 2.53 2603 90.1 35000 10582 1.290
Alliant RED DOT 70.7 16.6 1.08 2335 100.0 52667 5468 1.065
Alliant UNIQUE 59.6 18.1 1.17 2435 100.0 52667 6022 1.063
Alliant 2400 56.3 25.2 1.63 2727 100.0 52667 8011 1.053
Hodgdon H4227 70.4 30.4 1.97 2827 100.0 52667 8975 1.057
IMR 4227 70.1 30.3 1.96 2825 100.0 52667 8941 1.052
IMR 4350 94.9 44.5 2.88 2982 96.8 52667 12232 1.071
Hodgdon H4350 *T 96.7 44.6 2.89 2982 96.7 52667 12245 1.071
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savagelover
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Interesting. Thanks hope to cast up some this week if it warms up some
BushMaster-15
member
As suspected IMR and H4350 are within 1/10 grain for loads , what's interesting is H is listed higher and is the slower burning powder ,which equals More pressure .Certainly most curious .
I know, I know. I tried cast bullets in a number of centerfire rifles, and cast rifle bullets are not my friend. I have tried 0.458 diameter lead bullets in my 458 Win Magnum, The velocity spread was 1491 fps to 1624 fps, not very fast at all. The things would not stay on a six foot by six foot target at 100 yards. Cast bullets did well in my 1894 Marlin in 44 Magnum, but that was a pistol cartridge rifle anyway.
The thing is, you have to try. And after all the money is spent, the time wasted, then you realize jacketed bullets are in fact cheaper, and work better.
I did have fun casting Minie balls for my Muskets, but I was given the powder charge, and the mold to use. Worked great.
This is my most accurate Musket, match grade barrel on it.
And I could do this at 100 yards, offhand with the thing.
I put one round downrange with a flintlock, and think I would be doing this on the second. No flintlocks for me
GooseGestapo
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The .243 is capable of very good cast bullet performance.
The key phrase is “cast bullet performance”
Keep chamber pressures below 45,000psi and velocity below 2,300fps and you can see good accuracy.
Performance on game will be good for up to 175lb deer.
I’d start with #2400. It’s given me great performance over a wide range of cartridges.
H4895 is another good one, but don’t try to get jacketed velocities. You’ll just load your barrel with lead fouling.
You’ll not like 4350. At lower velocities/charge weights you can get hang fires and flash-overs.
Size cast bullets .001-.003” over bore diameter. I suggest.244” a minimum for .243.
I use .311” in ALL my .30cal rifles.
.314” in .303 (.303 Brit, 7.62x54R, 7.62x39.
I use SPG after tumble lubing for peak rifle accuracy.
Added: My two Marlin.45/70’s are among my best cast bullet rifles.
I use .460” sizing. One has Microgroove rifling, other has Ballard style.
Ballard style Remlin (circa 2015-6 mfg.) does this over 20.0gr #2400 with Lee 400gr RFN. About 1,400fps.
3-shots at 50yds. 2-7x scope. Later resighted to +3” high at 50.
22” bbl.
In a .458mag you will need to use ~1.5gr of polyester fiber filler.(Dacron pillow stuffing). It will significantly improve ignition and reduce velocity spreads...
The key phrase is “cast bullet performance”
Keep chamber pressures below 45,000psi and velocity below 2,300fps and you can see good accuracy.
Performance on game will be good for up to 175lb deer.
I’d start with #2400. It’s given me great performance over a wide range of cartridges.
H4895 is another good one, but don’t try to get jacketed velocities. You’ll just load your barrel with lead fouling.
You’ll not like 4350. At lower velocities/charge weights you can get hang fires and flash-overs.
Size cast bullets .001-.003” over bore diameter. I suggest.244” a minimum for .243.
I use .311” in ALL my .30cal rifles.
.314” in .303 (.303 Brit, 7.62x54R, 7.62x39.
I use SPG after tumble lubing for peak rifle accuracy.
Added: My two Marlin.45/70’s are among my best cast bullet rifles.
I use .460” sizing. One has Microgroove rifling, other has Ballard style.
Ballard style Remlin (circa 2015-6 mfg.) does this over 20.0gr #2400 with Lee 400gr RFN. About 1,400fps.
3-shots at 50yds. 2-7x scope. Later resighted to +3” high at 50.
22” bbl.
In a .458mag you will need to use ~1.5gr of polyester fiber filler.(Dacron pillow stuffing). It will significantly improve ignition and reduce velocity spreads...
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BushMaster-15
member
I'm so GLAD You brought up FLASH OVERS . That Senior Buddy of mine has a Military weapons collection to Rival ANY museum I've visited .
K's of of them . He collected near anybody's and everybody's Military stuff including French . We're talking 1885- through Vietnam .
As Most French stuff IMO is CRAP ,cases let alone cartridges are IMPOSSIBLE to come by . So he would MAKE his own .
One Saturday I stopped by his place and he was dismantling what was left of a 8x51mm Lebel . Using reduced loads and CAST bullets ,he had a Flash over and it pressure spiked . He was damn lucky the bolt blew left . Another friend of mine used the WRONG recipe in his 12 gauge , powder was Clays I know that for a fact . Don't know anymore than that ,other that I was on the 27 yd. line two stations away during a shoot ,when two quarter sized pieces of a O/U came smoking by . The person next to him got a half dime piece of shrapnel in his cheek .
Talk about Ironic : The following month our Shot league had a match up the coast and I had completed My rounds and had stopped for a bite to eat . In the middle of eating one of our club members came in ,as he had seen My truck . Sat down with a Heavy face and said You and George were pretty good friends weren't you . Of Course known him for 40+ years does a lot of My metal work ,what do You mean were ??.
George was killed by a fellow shooter ,when His Gun BLEW UP . Never knew what hit him . The other shooter had just purchased one of those Russian O/U rigs . Law suits were being dispatched at lightening speed a few weeks afterwards .
Sometimes it isn't just being in front of a gun which is dangerous but anywhere around one CAN be deadly given extenuating circumstances .
Yeah, I use the 4350 (I or H) for 30-06. With around 2850fps with mid level charges.
Tried it in 30-30 during the powder shortages and got very low velocity and poor accuracy. Figured I just couldn't get enough in the case.
