In case anybody wonders if we are making progress

[Bartholomew Roberts]

1994 vote to amend the Omnibus Crime Bill with the heinous Feinstein amendment banning assault weapons:

Passed 56-43 (http://www.senate.gov/legislative/L...ote_cfm.cfm?congress=103&session=1&vote=00375)

Bill ultimately passed Senate 95-4 and went to House, where it was also passed and made into law.

====================================================
2004 vote to amend S.1805 with heinous Feinstein amendment extending previous ban another ten years

Passed 52-47 (http://www.senate.gov/legislative/L...ote_cfm.cfm?congress=108&session=2&vote=00024)

Bill killed like a rabid dog in Senate 90-8. House already on record as opposing ban

 

[Thumper]

Yep...progress.

Here's another pretty good indicator:

 

[TheBluesMan]

Progress???

Did somebody say progress???

http://www.gun-nuttery.com/rtc.gif

Howz dat fur progress!

 

[BowStreetRunner]

the state level grassroots movement for CCW has been very successful. I think eventually we can follow that up with national victories
BSR

 

[JitsuGuy]

Actually we're losing... We've let the 2nd amendment become worth debating... None of us should have to register our guns nor APPLY for a CCW permit. No laws should circumvent the laws in the Constitution. We're playing their game and we shouldn't be.

J

 

[Harry Tuttle]

AGS Statement on the Scuttling of the Immunity Bill

Washington – Americans for Gun Safety President Jonathan Cowan issued the following statement in the wake of the Senate sponsors’ scuttling of the gun industry liability bill:

“Today’s votes in the Senate were an historic victory for gun safety advocates and law enforcement, and a stunning defeat for the NRA. Now that the Senate has shown bipartisan majorities for closing the gun show loophole and renewing the assault weapons ban, it’s time for President Bush to fulfill his promises by demanding that Congress act on them this year.â€

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

They're Gun Safety advocates now

They're on a meme upswing

 

[7.62FullMetalJacket]

The AGS/VPC/Feinstein spin machines have no shame.

 

[Quick Draw McGraw]

Actually we're losing... We've let the 2nd amendment become worth debating... None of us should have to register our guns nor APPLY for a CCW permit. No laws should circumvent the laws in the Constitution.

True, we shouldn't have to register our guns or apply for a ccw permit, and it is sad that the 2nd ammendment has become so...so...pissed on.

BUT

I do think that we're progressing back in the right direction. I suppose that we are technically still losing, but the original post was about progress from where we have been.

We're playing their game and we shouldn't be.

I don't follow you here. What do you suggest we do? Sure most of us could become more active in our fight, and our strategy can always use some refining, but overall I think we're going about this the right way. How are you suggesting we stop "playing their game?"

 

[Firethorn]

Nebraska

I know Nebraska is one of the few 'bad' states left, but that's because one of the reps from Omaha is rabidly against it, and he philibusters every time it comes up. Due to the Unicameral structure, we haven't been able to get around him yet. We may just have to wait until he's gone.

 

[Sam Adams]

JitsuGuy

We lost lots of our RKBA via the salami-slicer method: one slice at a time. We probably have to take it back the same way.

I think that we're making progress because:

1) The Dems are mostly running away from gun control - they realize it is a loser of an issue;

2) Even the Brady Bunch is running away - they had to change their name to something other than "Handgun Control, Inc." because it was hurting them. Oh, and the VPC and the MMM had to merge to shave costs - no exactly a sign of health.

3) The fact that there is now a shall-issue standard in so many states has led many more people to acquire FACTS about gun ownership, as well as leading more to buy guns and become involved with the gun-rights movement.

4) There are still about 5 million guns added to the nation's stock every year. They aren't all going to folks with 10 or 20 - some not insignificant number are being purchased by new owners, which leads to more political awareness of the issue and more clout for us.

5) If the AWB does sunset (please, G-d, let it happen!), then for the first time a federal gun law will have been removed. When the Earth doesn't spin off its axis as a result (i.e. when a year or two goes by and you don't have 10,000 dead cops due to drive-by bayonettings), the falsity and the hyperbolic fear-mongering of the anti-gun crowd will be naked to the world - and their ability to get new legislation passed will be reduced.

No, its not all going our way. My main concern is two-fold: First, the continued indoctrination of our youth against guns and, second, the caving-in of many RINOs to the gun control agenda. Both are worrysome trends, but I am still feeling better than I was a few years ago.

 

[TheBluesMan]

In addition to all of the fine points that Sam Adams made above, Alaska, in a period of only ten years, has gone from No Issue to Shall Issue to true RKBA! New Hampshire is leaning toward passage of a law that would make them Alaska-style too.

 

[geekWithA.45]

The wave of Shall Issue CCW was arguably progress, as was the number of state constitutions who bulked up or added their RKBA clauses since the 70s.

The next wave of reforms, a la "vermont carry" has begun.

There is plenty of reason for hope and optimism, and plenty of sign that the fight is far from over.

Having nationally dabbled in severely constraining RKBA, and having found it to be a BAD idea, and inconsistent with our national character, it is my hope that coming out the far side of this thing, RKBA will be stronger than ever before, having been tempered by the fire.

 

[Standing Wolf]

Actually we're losing... We've let the 2nd amendment become worth debating...

I'm sorry to say I think you're right.

 

[JitsuGuy]

In all honesty, I don't know how we should change this... Yes we're playing their game by trying to legislate laws that shouldn't have to be legislated because of the Constitution and what it's already put in place for THE Laws of the land. I don't have an answer as to what game we should play though... Sad sitution I guess.

J

 

[TheBluesMan]

JitsuGuy - In my mind, it's either play the game by the rules or don't play it at all.

In other words, take incremental steps toward greater freedom via legislation or refresh the tree of liberty with the blood of tyrants and patriots...

I'd much prefer the former to the latter.

 

[M1911Owner]

Unless we get really lucky and get a Supreme Court decision out of the blue, this is how the game is played: You make incremental progress, like we've been making with CCW, until you reach a point where the 2nd is generally accepted for what it is. Then, and probably only then, will the courts start recognizing a non-infringable right to keep and bear arms.

The fact that the 2nd Amendment has become worth debating is a good thing--it means the ball is still in play. Compare, for example, the General Welfare clause--it has long been generally recognized that this clause allows The Congress to spend money on anything they want, rather than its original intent, which is a limitation that The Congress can only spend money for the General Welfare of the United States, and not for limited groups. That question is no longer in play at all. The 2nd is in play, and we're making good progress in the right direction. If we keep up the fight, this is a battle we can win!