IN Chief of Police trying to not issue CCW permits...

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Autolycus

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From the Bloomington IN Police Department website...
http://www.bloomington.in.gov/egov/scripts/services.php?path=details&id=663&action=i&fDD=62-0

You are here: Home > City Government > Police Department >

Gun Permits

Applications for gun permits must be made in person. Please bring the initial $10 application fee with you. Cash, checks and money orders made payable to the City of Bloomington are accepted. You will also need to bring photo identification. All Indiana University students are required to bring a letter of clearance from the IU Police, 801 N Jordan Avenue, before the application will be accepted.

Applicants who live in or own a business in the Bloomington City Limits need to make application at the Bloomington Police Department, 220 East 3rd Street. (Applicants living outside of the City Limits but in Monroe County will need to apply at the Monroe County Sheriff's Department, 301 N College Avenue.)

Once you arrive, you will fill out the required forms and be fingerprinted. The Bloomington Police will then process your application as required by the State. You will be asked to return to the Department after one week to pick up the processed application. Mail the application to the State of Indiana Firearms Division along with the appropriate fee required by the State: $15 for Personal Protection Permits or $5 for Handgun/Target Practice Permits. The State of Indiana does not accept cash or personal checks.
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If I get an IN DL should it matter? I believe IN is a shall issue state? Could I just go to the State Police ang get it done? Why do I need to get campus PDs permission? Assuming I live off campus of course.

And from the the Campus PD website...

http://www.indiana.edu/~iupd/faq.htm#firearmsallowedoncampus

Are firearms allowed on campus?
Firearms are not allowed on campus unless you have received written permission from the Chief of Police. Firearms may be transported to the IMU Firing Range for use at the range. Violation of this University Policy will result in application of any relevant criminal penalties as well as University sanctions up to expulsion.
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I thought it was legal to CCW on a college campus? I am applying to IU and this seems like a cheap way to get around shall issue permits. If I live off campus does he have any authority to pull this crap?
 
Sounds like you need permission from them to get permission from him and you need permission from him to get permission from them. Nice paradox guys. Way to make it impossible for students. check the laws refering to application for a permit for the state and see if it mentions anything about getting the campus cops permission before being able to apply. If that isn't the case present your application and if it's refused/denied sue.
 
Sounds fishy, where they state that residents who " . . . own a business" in Bloomington need to apply there . . . I always thought you applied in the jurisdiction where you live.

Do you live in Bloomington?

Does your DL indicate you live in campus housing?

Does the official application require you to divulge whether or not you're a student?

If not, just comply with the actual law, and forget about "policies" that have no basis in the law when you apply for your permit. IANAL, but if the chief tries to put in his own requirements which aren't based in the law, you can probably get something (a "writ of mandamus?" again, IANAL) which would compel him to follow the law under penalty of contempt.

As far as carrying on campus is concerned, be sure you comply with IN law.

As far as college policies which DON'T have the force of law behind them, use your own judgement.
 
not sure about IN law so im not sure if there is a law that prohibits firearms on campus, even with a CCW. however, it doesn't seem paradoxical. you need a letter of clearance from the Campus PD to get your Indiana State CCW. the Campus PD policy only states you cannot have a firearm on campus unless you have the permission of the Campus PD Chief of Police.

owning/possessing a firearm on a college campus, as seen by the law, is a different issue than getting your CCW issued. you can be a student and live off campus. that seems to be what they are implying, that you can get your CCW but you probably need to live off campus to avoid the red tape of getting a Chief of Police authorizing you to live in a dormitory, and storing a pistol there. not that you aren't responsible, but look at all the others there that aren't that may end getting their hands on your firearm. that's probably their concern.

if i were you i'd go get the CCW first. then, if you can't get permission to possess or store the firearm at your on-campus housing, then move off campus.
 
Just because a state is a shall issue state doesn't mean that the local law enforcement is going to make it easy to get a permit. If the local police chief or sheriff is opposed to CCW, they'll put up as many roadblocks as they can to make it difficult.

If you're old enough to get a CCW permit and you have a DL with an off-campus address, then the local PD has no need to know that you're a student. It's none of their business.

If your local address is on campus, then they've got you over a barrel and you're going to have to go thru hoops to get a CCW permit. If university policy prohibits guns on campus (and virtually all universities do), then you're doubly over a barrel. Even if state law doesn't prohibit guns on university campuses, violating school policy will get you expelled in a hearbeat if you're caught with a gun on campus.

Another complication for colleges students is that they tend to be very transient with frequently changing address, particularly if they live on campus. CCW permit's typically have an address on them and they're only valid as long as you live at that address. If you move, you've just rendered your CCW invalid.

My advice is to hold off on getting a CCW permit until you've moved off-campus and gotten a long-term address. You'll save yourself a lot of grief.
 
I know in MA you can apply in the city/town you reside in or the city/town you are employed in. Could be the same there.

And in MA as well you have 30 days to notify by certified mail the Executive director of the criminal history systems board, and the Chiefs of Police in the citys/towns the license moves from and to. So a total of 3 notifications within 30 days by certified mail. I would assume that all places have some kind of "grace" period for alerting authorities of a move.

If you live off campus there is no reason to tell them you are a student. If you live on campus than the school probably has legal authority to deny you to possess firearms on campus. If that is the case than you have a storage problem.
 
IN is a shall issue state. From what I have found it is not illegal to CCW on college campus. As for getting thrown out of school I understand that but it seems that what he is doing is making it hard for people to get a CCW by requiring permission from a campus PD.

I do plan to live off campus when I move there simply because of issues like this. So me being a student really is none of his business is what I figure. When I move there I will get a Bloomington address due to the fact I will live off campus. I am just so pissed because this guy is going out of his way to prevent people from lawfully CCWing.

Here is the PDO page on Indiana off limits places...

http://www.packing.org/state/indiana/#stateoff_limits

I dont believe colleges are off limits. I completely understand that the school may throw you out but that is not the same as being arrested or charged with something.
 
Indiana is a shall-issue state. IU, is, of course, free to curtail the presence of firearms on their campus, but having the chief of police deny IU students carry permits strikes me as being in violation of the law.

Where's El Tejon when ya need him?
 
Have you tried getting that letter? He may be requiring that letter because if he has you get it he can be sure that campus cops made you aware of the "no guns on campus" rule, covering his butt. Doesn't necessarily make it right but in these lawsuit happy times he don't wanna get dragged into it when an incident, such as you getting expelled, happens.
 
No. I applied to the school today. But I just decided to look up the information on a whim. I understand what your saying Erebus but the Indiana State police are the ones who issue the permit. Or that is what I believe.
 
What the Devil is a "letter of clearance"???:confused:

Sounds like the Chief of Police in Bloomington is attempting to tack on requirements to discourage IU students from obtaining LTCH--a big no-no under many court rulings here. Someone needs to get in contact with the city attorney and put a stop to this nonsense RFN.

IN DL? I do not understand that question
IN shall issue? Yes.
Can I go to state police? No, but maybe call to Firearms Section to complain may be warranted.
Why campus PD permission? No idea, probably BPD and IUPD conspiring to deny students their civil rights (at least that's how a guy like me would phrase it).:D

Get on top of them, don't let them get away with this rubbish.
 
i understand IU to be shall-issue, and issuing from nonresidents. i haven't read the most recent statutes, but packing.org still reflects them as issuing to nonresidents. i understand you may need to qualify your desire to obtain an indiana permit with regular business or a residence in indiana. in any case, i contacted a police department in indiana to see if i could obtain a permit. they were quite vehement about indiana not issuing to nonresidents, ever. i left it at that, since the pennsylvania permit is honored there, but it still struck me as strange.
 
bclark, Indiana does, under extremely limited circumstances (one living in nieghboring state and having a business here), issue LTCH to non-residents.

Indiana does recognize all other state and foreign countries permits, however only while that person is not a resident. If you are a resident of Indiana, you need an Indiana LTCH.

Strong arguments can be made that carrying at IU is not a violation of state law. However, it is most certainly a violation of IU admin code and you most certainly will face admin punishment including possible expulsion.

Back in my day at Indiana University we kept our guns in our guitar cases and sock drawers, and walked uphill both ways to school (chased by dinosaurs).:neener:
 
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School defined, Shall issue

1.Indiana does not include a College or University in any codified definition of school.

See 511 IAC 6.2-2-6 "Nonpublic school" defined:

Authority: IC 20-10.2-7-1

Affected: IC 20-10.1-1-3; IC 20-10.2

Sec. 6. "Nonpublic school" has the meaning set forth in IC 20-10.1-1-3. (Indiana State Board of Education; 511 IAC 6.2-2-6; filed Jun 28, 2001, 4:15 p.m.: 24 IR 3648)
---------------------------
Sec. 9. "Public school" has the meaning set forth in IC 20-10.1-1-2. (Indiana State Board of Education; 511 IAC 6.2-2-9; filed Jun 28, 2001, 4:15 p.m.: 24 IR 3648)
---------------------------
511 IAC 6.2-2-10 "School" defined

Authority: IC 20-10.2-7-1

Affected: IC 20-10.2

Sec. 10. "School" refers to a public or an accredited nonpublic school. (Indiana State Board of Education; 511 IAC 6.2-2-10; filed Jun 28, 2001, 4:15 p.m.: 24 IR 3648)

2. B.P.D. does not issue IN LTC. The Indiana State Police Firearms Unit shall be the only entity to issue IN LTCs.

However, B.P.D. is required to conduct their own background investigation on applicants residing in Bloomington. A "letter of clearance" would appear to be a reasonable measure in order to fulfill said requirement.

3.Additionally under Indiana code, governmental units and private owners in Indiana are permitted to prohibit firearms possession on properties controlled by same. However, living off campus would not affect mere possession of a firearm as it is permitted even without a license.

*If the IU Provost refuses you said letter, you in all liklihood have a cause of action against BPD and IU for violation of Indiana's shall issue laws.

*BPD's investigation of you must be accurate/truthful as submitted to the ISPFU. If you are denied as a untrue result of their investigation, you have recourse under Indiana code.
 
So I have to ask the IU Chief of Police for a letter of clearance? How is that reasonable if he will just say no out of reflex? I really dont have the resources for a lawsuit or anything along those lines. I just was hoping to go down and get my permit and be done with it.

I plan to use a friends address to get an Indiana Drivers license. He said he has to ask his dad as his dad owns the property.
 
I plan to use a friends address to get an Indiana Drivers license.
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That could be considered fraudulent. If you are under 21 get a license from Maine or North Dakota. Both issue to nonresidents who are 18+.
 
You're pretty wired.

So I have to ask the IU Chief of Police for a letter of clearance? How is that reasonable if he will just say no out of reflex?
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First, relax. You're presuming he will just say no. I'm am positive that you are not be the first person that he issues a letter for a LTC. If he refuses, you include a letter with your application that the IU Provost refused to issue a letter, per the BPD requirement.

If you do have to take the BPD and IU Provost to court, it is a civil matter and have the attorney handle the case on contigency + costs. You should have a couple of bucks in your pocket after too.

If needed, contact Attorney Bryan Lee Ciyou of the law firm Ciyou and Dixon, PC; author of "Handgun law in Indiana". He attended and graduated from Indiana University Law School in 1994. His address is 320 N. Meridian Street, Ste. 311,Indianapolis, IN 46204-1722. http://www.indianahandgunlaw.com/

Of course, you don't have to tell the BPD or anyone else for that matter, that you're a student at IU.

You could also take an address in Ellettsville and have the Town Marshal's office there do your check without the hassle of a letter too.
 
First, relax. You're presuming he will just say no. I'm am positive that you are not be the first person that he issues a letter for a LTC.
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Not so sure. IU is *much* more liberal than Indiana in general, and the other universities like Purdue.
 
I think what they are saying is that if you have a permit for Ill. All you need to do apply to BPD. or the city or county you will be staying in. BUT YOU can not carry on campus without campus police permission. If you don't reside on campus you should be able to carry, but not on campus.

El Tejon knows listen to him.

good luck in your search for the truth
 
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