In Line Muzzle loaders?
- Thread starter Vairochana
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1911 guy
Member
Only his third post and he's already right!
Gofer has hit the nail on the head. In-lines aren't wunder guns, but they are an introduction to BP for a lot of people.
Gofer has hit the nail on the head. In-lines aren't wunder guns, but they are an introduction to BP for a lot of people.
nico
Member
^^ I agree completely. I've had my CVA Optima Pro for under a year and have only fired it once, but I'm already thinking about getting a traditional BP rifle in the future just based on info I've picked up while researching bullets, lubes, etc. for my gun.
deadin
Member
OK, I'm not a BP hunter. I've owned and shot BP over the years, mainly handguns. I've read all of the posts in this thread and still don't quite understand what the supposed advantages an inline has over a sidelock.
Someone stated that you could use a stiffer load in an inline. Why?
Someone else mentioned twist rate. Couldn't a side lock be barreled with a faster twist?
The only thing I could see is that lock time/ignition time would be a mite faster on an inline (less corners to go around), but I wouldn't think that it would make that much difference under normal circumstances. Precision target shooting, maybe. Or is it strictly aesthetics?
What am I missing?
Dean
Someone stated that you could use a stiffer load in an inline. Why?
Someone else mentioned twist rate. Couldn't a side lock be barreled with a faster twist?
The only thing I could see is that lock time/ignition time would be a mite faster on an inline (less corners to go around), but I wouldn't think that it would make that much difference under normal circumstances. Precision target shooting, maybe. Or is it strictly aesthetics?
What am I missing?
Dean
nico
Member
It can, and they're available. Green Mountain sells 1:28" twist octagon barrels for shooting sabots in cap locks.
I still don't see a major distinction between an inline muzzle loader and some of the "primitive" cap locks. If you get a 209 conversion kit and a 1:28 twist barrel for your cap lock, does that make it "too modern?"
This whole thing begs the question: if you demand that black powder seaons should be for "traditional" rifles, why draw the line at cap locks? After all, it could be argued that a cap lock has a big advantage over a match lock or flint lock. Heck, if people were arguing that the distinction should be made between flint locks and cap locks, it'd make more sense to me.
If the big distinction is lock time, would the traditionalists argue that underhammers are too modern? After all, they have the same theoretical inherent advantage of an inline (faster lock time).
deadin
Member
Vairochana
Member
I will just point out here that my new toy is a flintlock Pennsylvania rifle. I have also played with a variety of smokepoles from matchlocks to '53 Enfields.
I don't know that the inline guns are so popular here in Oz; I have never seen one.
The reason for this being that we don't have dedicated ML seasons.
A fair number of people hunt with Blackpowder guns but a lot are used for fun and competition.
I asked the question as I am unfamiliar with the inlines and I come from a reenactment background (medieval) so they seem a bit of a strange idea.
I don't know that the inline guns are so popular here in Oz; I have never seen one.
The reason for this being that we don't have dedicated ML seasons.
A fair number of people hunt with Blackpowder guns but a lot are used for fun and competition.
I asked the question as I am unfamiliar with the inlines and I come from a reenactment background (medieval) so they seem a bit of a strange idea.
1911 guy
Member
Why can you put a larger charge in an inline?
Because market research shows most people don't think. The rifles will take 150gr of FFg or pyrodex, but the last 50gr burns in the air in front of you. Before every deer season I watch everybody burn up the grass at the range. BOOM! Then the powder lies smoldering in the grass. Back off to 100gr. You'll get nearly the same velocity with much less pressure.
Because market research shows most people don't think. The rifles will take 150gr of FFg or pyrodex, but the last 50gr burns in the air in front of you. Before every deer season I watch everybody burn up the grass at the range. BOOM! Then the powder lies smoldering in the grass. Back off to 100gr. You'll get nearly the same velocity with much less pressure.
Modern Muzzleloaders
Modern or traditional, in-lines and any other modern style muzzleloaders are still black powder guns, which are loaded from the front! This forum is not for traditional guns only, but all black powder guns. I build, own, and shoot both with great pleasure and much enjoyment! Good shooting to all, no matter what path yun's choose
Modern or traditional, in-lines and any other modern style muzzleloaders are still black powder guns, which are loaded from the front! This forum is not for traditional guns only, but all black powder guns. I build, own, and shoot both with great pleasure and much enjoyment! Good shooting to all, no matter what path yun's choose
arcticap
Member
I shot the more traditional caplocks first and then progressed to woods hunting with an inline. Besides what has already been said, I think inlines have more reliable ignition even when using an #11 cap instead of a 209 primer.
The modern shaped stocks are usually more ergonomic and better designed for mounting a scope.
While I don't shoot at long ranges when hunting with either style of rifles, I've always preferred using a scope for hunting, even back when only a 1X scope was legal for use here.
Although 99% of the time that I'm shooting muzzle loaders, I simply enjoy shooting patched round balls the most.
The modern shaped stocks are usually more ergonomic and better designed for mounting a scope.
While I don't shoot at long ranges when hunting with either style of rifles, I've always preferred using a scope for hunting, even back when only a 1X scope was legal for use here.
Although 99% of the time that I'm shooting muzzle loaders, I simply enjoy shooting patched round balls the most.
Modern Muzzleloaders
Artcap: You should come to Ohio and try the 75 caliber Germanic short rifle I am working on! I hope it will be complete for the Ohio 06' muzzleloader season which runs Dec. 27-30 this year. The ball will be a 540 gr with about 110 gr of powder to shove er' downrange. Will be great for deer and many larger game species. I will post pictures on this forum throughout its construction. Bigiron Barrel Works are cutting rifling in my barrel blank as we speak!
Artcap: You should come to Ohio and try the 75 caliber Germanic short rifle I am working on! I hope it will be complete for the Ohio 06' muzzleloader season which runs Dec. 27-30 this year. The ball will be a 540 gr with about 110 gr of powder to shove er' downrange. Will be great for deer and many larger game species. I will post pictures on this forum throughout its construction. Bigiron Barrel Works are cutting rifling in my barrel blank as we speak!
arcticap
Member
That's really interesting, and sounds to be very similiar to having a rifled 11 gauge barrel (.751).
I'm curious about what rate of rifling twist you'll be using to stabilize that large caliber ball?
Thanks for the invite!
I'm curious about what rate of rifling twist you'll be using to stabilize that large caliber ball?
Thanks for the invite!
bigbore442001
Member
Ballistically, the inlines are no different than a traditional muzzleloader. You can take a bullet and powder charge being equal and shoot them out of the same caliber, barrel length, etc and the numbers will be close to each other.
I do find that the inlines are more forgiving of bad weather. Here in New England we can get all kinds of weather in one week and even in one day. One day you are hunting in blowing snow and cold, then later that day it changes to rain. That is where I like the inlines.
I do find that the inlines are more forgiving of bad weather. Here in New England we can get all kinds of weather in one week and even in one day. One day you are hunting in blowing snow and cold, then later that day it changes to rain. That is where I like the inlines.
deadin
Member
OK, I’m seeing a few advantages of the inline over traditional types. (More weatherproof, easier scope mounting, etc. Nothing major) It seems to be boiling down to personal preference. (With a bit of prejudice thrown in.)
Kind of like back action locks vs. front action locks, single set triggers vs. double set, and so forth.
Apparently the main complaint is that even though they use the same bullet, the same powder, fired by a separate primer and are loaded from the front, they look like a modern rifle and not a traditional ML. Isn’t this akin to those that that would outlaw AR-15’s and other semi-auto rifles of the same type because they “look like” the evil full auto assault rifles?
As for having “special” seasons for ML’s, I guess I fall into the camp that asks "why should ML’s get special treatment". If it’s for the “traditionalist” experience, that can be had during a regular season. (Yes, it would be harder to “compete” with a modern rifle, but think of how much sweeter a successful hunt would be under these circumstances. And besides, is it about “competition” at all?) I should mention that where I hunt you aren’t likely to get a shot at much more than 100 yds. (Brush, trees, etc.) so ML or cartridge rifle doesn’t make that much difference.
If it’s for deer population control, lengthen the regular season, raise the limit, etc. If it is to “give the deer a chance” (IMHO, a silly reason), why not require smoothbores?
I guess that if I really wanted a “traditional” challenge, I would go with a smoothbore flinter. (well, maybe I would allow myself some rifling ) , but I wouldn’t (currently) have to worry about someone out there with an In-Line Flintlock.
Dean
Kind of like back action locks vs. front action locks, single set triggers vs. double set, and so forth.
Apparently the main complaint is that even though they use the same bullet, the same powder, fired by a separate primer and are loaded from the front, they look like a modern rifle and not a traditional ML. Isn’t this akin to those that that would outlaw AR-15’s and other semi-auto rifles of the same type because they “look like” the evil full auto assault rifles?
As for having “special” seasons for ML’s, I guess I fall into the camp that asks "why should ML’s get special treatment". If it’s for the “traditionalist” experience, that can be had during a regular season. (Yes, it would be harder to “compete” with a modern rifle, but think of how much sweeter a successful hunt would be under these circumstances. And besides, is it about “competition” at all?) I should mention that where I hunt you aren’t likely to get a shot at much more than 100 yds. (Brush, trees, etc.) so ML or cartridge rifle doesn’t make that much difference.
If it’s for deer population control, lengthen the regular season, raise the limit, etc. If it is to “give the deer a chance” (IMHO, a silly reason), why not require smoothbores?
I guess that if I really wanted a “traditional” challenge, I would go with a smoothbore flinter. (well, maybe I would allow myself some rifling
) , but I wouldn’t (currently) have to worry about someone out there with an In-Line Flintlock. Dean
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