In need of AR15 advise

[TreyNC]

I know there is a lot of AR talk out there so let me narrow the field. I have already picked out which AR (Stag Arms) I am going to get, I was also thinking of a Stevens 200 bolt .223 to turn into a varmint rifle, to be easy on the wallet. Sounds good right, then I started thinking instead of the Stevens should I put that money into another upper with a bull barrel for the AR, being I am going to get the 16" tactical to start. Am I going to gain enough accuracy/consistency from say a 20" bull than the 16" medium weight barrel to justify the extra cost of maybe 200$ more than the Stevens. Am I looking at going from 1.25moa to .75moa? Or 2moa to .5-.75moa. The bull will be a range gun as well.

Tell me what everybody thinks!

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

I'd just get a nice medium weight 16" match barrel and call it a day. You'll save money and still get some impressive accuracy. Here are some five round groups at 100yds from my 16" medium profile stainless barrel:

The grids are 1" squares. All of the targets represent typical performance with me behind the trigger, not the best or worst (though the lower left corner group of the top target is one of the better ones I've shot). This was also with a stock trigger, using a Grippod and rifle case for support from the bench, and a TA11 3.5 scope with a donut reticle to aim (getting precise groups with a circle for an aiming point is always fun). I think with a target scope in a good mount, you could have one upper that did both roles quite well.

 

[Don't Tread On Me]

It's not about barrel thickness or length. Thickness or length is about stiffness, to minimize barrel whip/vibration to increase accuracy.


HOWEVER, that is a small factor in the greater accuracy picture. Chamber type and rifling quality is by far the biggest factor. There are thousands of examples of thin barreled rifles with match chamber and rifling that will outshoot a standard grade bull-barrel all day long. A nice smooth bore with a relatively tigher chamber will make 10x more difference than having a fat barrel. What you do not want is a long freebore/leade. In other words, no 5.56 NATO chambers.


You get what you pay for. A standard HBAR Krieger is going to put a regular generic "match" AR bull barrel to shame. Also, the word match and match grade are used very loosely these days, and even more so in the AR-15 world.


Now, the AR platform is a very accurate autoloader. There is one caveat. The barrel must be freefloated. Of the many platforms out there, the AR-15 really benefits from this factor a lot. Aside from that, there's nothing else to the accuracy formula other than buying a good barrel and using good ammo.

I've done 1.5" many, many times with my service grade barrel, but then again it will do 2.5" too so I cannot call it a 1.5" shooter. I'm speaking averages here and expectations. A better than service grade will be able to hit 1.25-1.50 consistently. Just like the above pictures show. Those are very good groups for a military pattern rifle. A service grade will average 1.5" to 2.5" with good ammo. A true match grade will average 0.75-1.00" ..which is phenominal.

 

[docgary]

TreyNC
New Member



Join Date: 10-14-07
Location: Fleetwood, NC
Posts: 18 In need of AR15 advise

Am I going to gain enough accuracy/consistency from say a 20" bull than the
16" medium weight barrel to justify the extra cost of maybe 200$ more than the Stevens.
Am I looking at going from 1.25moa to .75moa? Or 2moa to .5-.75moa.
________________________

Well, it depends!

Adding 4 inches to the barrell does not gaurantee anything other than a heavier rifle!
If shooting off hand, you may get slightly better accuracy but not necessarly precision -
meaning that you may get closer to the bulls eye but it may not be consistent.

What Im trying to say is that if accuracy and precision are what you're after,
look for barrells made for that ie, noveske, kreiger, etc.
Thery are not that much more expensive than you think.
Now, if you're shooting off a bench, thats a completely different story.
But off hand shooting shooting .5-.75 MOA groupings is a pretty tall order!

Above all, it depends o your abilities first, the barrell and 3rd the ammo.
To shoot .75 0r better off hand requires Match ammo Ie Black hills or reloading to work up a load for your rifle.
My first AR was a RRA carbine - loved the looks but discovered I was more interested in precision shooting.
2nd AR was a build with a 26 in Kreiger barrell,SS, 1:9 fluted, DPMS upper without F/A,sitting on a RRA lower w 2 stage trigger.
This rifle shoots .5 -.75 moa on bench.
Im sure there are many AR carbines that can bury me for precision, however, it aint an off the shelf AR.

good luck

 

[strat81]

Don't forget the trigger on your lower. Standard "mil-spec" triggers aren't the most conducive to best accuracy.

 

[TreyNC]

Thanks guys, I will be reloading and like every one I can't see why I can't have a sub moa AR for 200$...lol! Just want to get the best for the buck and if it can pull double duty all the better. I do some bench rest (using this term loosly) shooting, just to see what the firearm can do and my hand loading. My off hand abilitys while not as impressive as off the bench are much more important to me.

How do you free float an AR?

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

How do you free float an AR?

Either install or order it with the AR the free-floated handguard of your choice. There are literally dozens of different types available: plain handguard but free-floated, smooth handguard, railed handguard, smooth but you can attach rails, etc.

For the barrel, I'd look into a nice 16" medium-profile stainless barrel with a Wylde chamber. I don't know if that would get you into the 0.5" range by itself; but the nice thing about the AR is you can always add other parts later. The AR I used to shoot the groups above took about 10 years to reach that configuration.

 

[newsavageowner]

At one point I owned a 20" Bushmaster with a standard factory barrel...not even a floated barrel as mentioned above. Easily shot .75" groups at 100yds...sometimes less. This picture was a 3 shot group of 50gr American Eagle HPs. I would think this kind of performance would meet most of your needs at a reasonable price if you were to simply go out and buy a 20" upper to go on your lower. You may not even need to get another upper if you find that the 16" does the job that you need it to.

 

[Outlaws]

Rock River has a 10% off sale right now with free shipping on anything over $25. They offer stainless steel Wilson Arms barrels. Wilson makes a good barrel. They make a varmint upper that has a float tube and the ss barrel. Just something to consider.

I just got my RRA national match yesterday. Its heavy. That 20" Wilson barrel is nothing to kid about...granted it has heavy metal float tube for the handguards to attach to also, but still, if the rifle wasn't for matches I wouldn't get a 20" bull barrel on an AR. I am going to buy a weight to stick in the buttstock to help offset it. Stick with 16" unless you have a chance to handle it before laying down the cash.

 

[tkcomer]

A lot of people laugh, but I bought a Double Star lower and stuck a RRA trigger in it. I bought a used stock off of a guy on AR15.com. I then finished it out with a Model 1 Sales 16” stainless upper and also got the rest of the little parts from them to complete. It's a tack driver with my cheap reloads. It amazed the sniper dude on the local police force. It will out shoot his heavy barrel Savage that has the Accutrigger. The gun was around $750 to complete. That's with out the scope. No need for two rifles. Here's some pics of it: http://www.pixagogo.com/0961684563 Click on a pic to make it bigger. Click on original at the top to really blow it up.

 

[tsidorus]

-tkcomer: I remember seeing an article on how to make that collapsible bench of yours but forgot where it was and what to use to make the pipe legs removable... you wouldn't happen to have the article would you?

-Tsi

 

[Walkalong]

For the barrel, I'd look into a nice 16" medium-profile stainless barrel with a Wylde chamber.

That is what I got on my RRA I just bought and I am very happy with it. I will mount one of my extra 36X scopes on it one of these days and see what it can do with some match grade bullets.

I got a plain, no rails, free float tube and the SS barrel with the Wylde chamber. Stock A2, other than that. I plan on putting a Pride Fowler Red Dot on it using one of their AR carry handle mounts.

For right now I am just going to use a Red Dot I aleady have on a standard mount, but want to "go small" so I can still use the cary handle. The sight will be more protected as well.

 

[tkcomer]

Here is the website for the bench: http://www.larrywillis.com/shootingbench.html They say portable, but it sure is heavy.