In the reloading room...

IWAC

IWAC

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I have a lot of Berry's 125 gr. plated, supposedly .357 bullets. Measuring random projectiles, I get mostly .3565 diameter. Now, I realize my Caliper isn't one of the super accurate brands, and think that the difference may be related to the caliper's manufacturing tolerances. I also think that with a stiff .38 Special +P load...max, about 900 fps., the bullet should obturate enough to fill the chamber/grooves of my revolver. The bullets also have no crimping groove or cannelure, and Berry's website says DON'T crimp! :what: It will damage the plating! They recommend a taper crimp, just enough to move the case mouth back against the bullet, totally eliminating the flare. They say a taper crimp has enough neck tension to hold the bullet. My question is: My dies do both taper and roll crimping. What would happen if I seat the bullet deep enough that a teeny roll crimp over the curve where the body of the bullet tapers down to the nose, giving a bit more security from bullet "creep"? It seems to me the alternative would be to remove a smidgen from the expander plug diameter, providing a bit more neck tension. Am I on the right track? Suggestions, please!:)
 
In pistol rounds, regardless of the caliber, I like to utilize the slight crimp that the seating die provides. Just enough to get that little “pop” when you pull it back. I do that with Berry’s or any other.

As far as the diameter: I’ve never measured Berry’s bullets even though I’ve used them. But that does seem a little odd. But if you’re just plinking, I wouldn’t worry about it too much.
 
When I taper crimp I apply just enough crimp to remove the flare but if I roll crimp I apply enough to roll the case mouth over into the crimp groove. I've never loaded any plated bullets.
 
I used an FCD for Berry's 9mm plated bullets. Tried to go as light as I could to get the case mouth back to the bullet. Pulled a couple to see what the plating looked like and I could still see teeeeny tiny bit of a crimp mark. They all shot fine for plinkers.
 
IWAC said:
I have a lot of Berry's 125 gr. plated, supposedly .357 bullets. Measuring random projectiles, I get mostly .3565 diameter. Now, I realize my Caliper isn't one of the super accurate brands, and think that the difference may be related to the caliper's manufacturing tolerances. I also think that with a stiff .38 Special +P load...max, about 900 fps., the bullet should obturate enough to fill the chamber/grooves of my revolver. The bullets also have no crimping groove or cannelure, and Berry's website says DON'T crimp! :what: It will damage the plating! They recommend a taper crimp, just enough to move the case mouth back against the bullet, totally eliminating the flare. They say a taper crimp has enough neck tension to hold the bullet. My question is: My dies do both taper and roll crimping. What would happen if I seat the bullet deep enough that a teeny roll crimp over the curve where the body of the bullet tapers down to the nose, giving a bit more security from bullet "creep"? It seems to me the alternative would be to remove a smidgen from the expander plug diameter, providing a bit more neck tension. Am I on the right track? Suggestions, please!:)
Click to expand...
Why bother reading what the mfr has to say?
 
frogfurr said:
Just taper crimp enough to give you the case diameter recommended in your reloading manual. Just like Berry's says.
Click to expand...
Have tried to read everything that Berry's has published...maybe I missed something, spoken with a representative...no help there, hence the questions.
 
From Berry's website. Unless I missed something. I dont see anywhere on their website that says "Don't Crimp"...

1694547859095.png
 
Your original questions were about ways to ensure against bullet creep, either by roll crimping over the nose of the bullet or increasing neck tension. Before doing either of those, I would check to see if you are actually experiencing bullet creep. Could save you from trying to solve a problem you don't have.
 
barnfrog said:
Your original questions were about ways to ensure against bullet creep, either by roll crimping over the nose of the bullet or increasing neck tension. Before doing either of those, I would check to see if you are actually experiencing bullet creep. Could save you from trying to solve a problem you don't have.
Click to expand...
Agreed. In 38/357 the assumption is you’re using a revolver. That shouldn’t have bullet creep unless I’m way off there
 
Your answer will depend greatly on what and how much you put under that projectile and how deep you are seating them. Of course that is up to you. I take sides with safety in my loads, just to let you know where I am coming
from on the issue. I load both .38 Special and .357 mag with Hornady Custom Taper dies and have never seen an issue with either type of load.
 
Thomasss said:
Your answer will depend greatly on what and how much you put under that projectile and how deep you are seating them. Of course that is up to you. I take sides with safety in my loads, just to let you know where I am coming
from on the issue. I load both .38 Special and .357 mag with Hornady Custom Taper dies and have never seen an issue with either type of load.
Click to expand...
What's under them, and the weight of the launcher... agree.
 
Your original post questions the accuracy of your caliper. You are wise to consider that. I'm a retired machinist, and I can tell you that in the industry we would not depend on a dial caliper to read accurately to that 4th decimal place. Reading .3565 on the caliper could very well mean the bullet is .356 or .357. A micrometer is the proper tool for a more precise measurement. Even a cheap Chinese micrometer is more accurate than most dial calipers.
As to crimping, the die can be adjusted to just barely remove the flare on the brass. If the case is properly sized, it will retain the bullet.
To check this, use an inertial bullet puller to test the bullet retention.
 
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I happen to have a box of Berry's 125 grain flat points on my bench. The label says .3575, and that measurement on about 5 of them that I just pulled out of the box checks out with my Mitutoyo caliper. Does the box say 38 Cal 125gr on it?

Edited to add picture.
 

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As for crimping Berrys bullets, a gorilla-strength roll crimp will cut the plating. When I was first starting out with plated bullets I did overdo it with a roll crimp. I had lousy accuracy and little bits of copper plating sticking in my targets, showing me that the plating was cut and pieces were spinning off as the bullet was flying towards the targets.

Moderation is the key, whether it is a taper or roll crimp you are applying.

Stay safe.
 
Your bullets are too small and lack a cannelure / crimp groove .
You dies are designed for .357" - .358" bullets with a cannelure / crimp groove .
Rather than alter your dies ... Do This :
Use a set of 9mm Luger dies to seat and taper crimp those bullets in the 38 special cases ... you will have to adjust the 9mm Luger seat / crimp die a lot higher , but it will work .
You can use the 9mm expander button to get tighter neck tension on the 38 spindle ... My older CH 9mm luger dies and RCBS 38/357 spcl/mag dies are both three die sets , allow some parts swapping and how I load 9mm Luger bullets .356" in my 38 special and taper crimp them ... A good taper crimp along with the tight neck fit (use 9mm expander button) holds the bullets in place .
I have been loading some 124 gr 9mm truncated cone bullets in 38 special , 38 spcl+P and 357 magnum loads ... and the taper crimp will hold even the magnum loads .

I'm not too good at explaining things but I hope you get the picture .
Those bullets you have sound like they should be used in 9mm Luger ...
Getting a set of Luger dies or just expander button and seat/crimp die will make more sense than altering your 38 spcl/357 dies .
Gary
 
fxvr5 said:
Revolvers are the platform in which bullet creep occurs.
Click to expand...
Ah gotcha. Thanks for that correction. I mainly load semi auto pistol rounds and just plinkers for 38 for my dad now that I don’t have a 38. Looked it up and understand that now. 👍. Gonna have to keep that and the crimping advice here in mind when we start developing a 357 hunting load for him
 
IWAC said:
I have a lot of Berry's 125 gr. plated, supposedly .357 bullets. Measuring random projectiles, I get mostly .3565 diameter. Now, I realize my Caliper isn't one of the super accurate brands, and think that the difference may be related to the caliper's manufacturing tolerances. I also think that with a stiff .38 Special +P load...max, about 900 fps., the bullet should obturate enough to fill the chamber/grooves of my revolver. The bullets also have no crimping groove or cannelure, and Berry's website says DON'T crimp! :what: It will damage the plating! They recommend a taper crimp, just enough to move the case mouth back against the bullet, totally eliminating the flare. They say a taper crimp has enough neck tension to hold the bullet. My question is: My dies do both taper and roll crimping. What would happen if I seat the bullet deep enough that a teeny roll crimp over the curve where the body of the bullet tapers down to the nose, giving a bit more security from bullet "creep"? It seems to me the alternative would be to remove a smidgen from the expander plug diameter, providing a bit more neck tension. Am I on the right track? Suggestions, please!:)
Click to expand...
Use a micrometer for bullets and such.
 
Update...Thanks, all! :) :) I learned some handy things.
After reading the suggestions offered and reviewing websites and videos, I decided to spend a few hours in the reloading room, figuring stuff out. It went well, with a couple of "O.K., Now what?" sessions. I read the Berry's box label, and it says 38 125gr. No other info except the price sticker. I have decided the bullets, being soft lead with copper coating should act like lead projectiles, and obturate to fill my cylinder mouths, which measure .358, and the barrel, which measures .3567. I measured a couple of dozen random bullets from the box, and they ranged from .356-.357, about 50-50, with a few in between. Major manufacturers' bullets were more consistent, but displayed some variation.
As much as we like to portray reloading as a "gnat's nut" precision exercise, mostly it isn't, working with manufacturing tolerances in projectiles, dies, powder, bullets and guns. So for most of my efforts, close enough is good (and accurate) enough. YMMV I even found a seating screw with an end that will not flatten the exposed lead noses of my jacketed HP bullets! Small victories!
During the reloading room session, I made dummy rounds for all the bullets I have, settling on a mediumish crimp for cannelure/crimp groove projectiles, and a taper crimp for bullets with no cannelure, with just a "skosh" of roll crimp to be sure all the brass flare is gone. No marks on the plating of bullets I pulled. :) All of my "dummies" did fine in the "plunk" test with my case gauge. A couple were hesitant to enter, attributable to not deburring the outside of the brass enough to remove the trim burr. I found that even a horrible long "taper" crimp + a gorilla roll crimp did NOT cut the plating, despite a rather wasp-waisted bullet! :what:( A true "Aaahhh...ssshucks" moment!) I chamfer the interior of the case mouth to avoid that...dumb idea # 217 that actually did work! 🤓 Well-made bullets, to resist such abuse!
Anyway, questions answered...thanks, all who contributed! 👍 Now, to set up my new powder measure, pick a load, and spend the Winter reloading!😊
 
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