Inconsistent Unique throws Perfect Powder measure

[gonoles_1980]

loaded up some midrange 44 mag with xtreme 240 LSWC. Set the load to 6.7 grains. I'd weight every 25 loads, and it would look like 6.8 gr, but I just retoss and have 6.7 grains. Seems like I was getting about .75 grains in error throwing the Unique. Could never get it to settle down and be consistent. So I probably have loads from about 6.65 to 6.775. Haven't seen this issue with other powders. Normally once I get the measure set, it stays there.

Thoughts?

 

[MEHavey]

If you're running 6.7-6.8gr throwing Unique....
Your powder measure is performing superbly.
(and your pistol will never know even the slightest difference)




That's a relatively lower-pressure load for that 44Mag cartridge/bullet weight.
You're going to get very inefficient/dirty burn

 

[mdi]

Just the nature of the beast. Unique isn't known for it's metering qualities. With practice, and doing everything the exact same every time will help, but I have never gotten less than .1 gr variation with Unique in any powder measure (when I'm loading my .44s I just "bite the bullet" and weigh most charges...).

BTW; a lot of folks "poo-poo" Lee's PPM, but it's as accurate and repeatable as any of my 3 powder measures.

 

[hdbiker]

I set my RCBS Uni Flo dispenser a 1/2 grain light and trickle up to the exact load on my scale. I have more time than I need,and get exact charges every single time . habiker

 

[Buck13]

Midrange? I would call that a VERRRY light load for a .43 magnum. That's barely above the standard range for .44 Special, and those have to allow for the flimsiest old revolvers. My favorite target load for the .43 magnum is 7.7 gr of HP-38 under a 429667 bullet, and those are running probably 100 fps faster than your load. If you really want that mild a load, be very careful WRT double charging!

Anyway, if more consistent drops make you happy and you want to stay in that burn rate, my PPM has less variability with Power Pistol or Longshot than with Unique. Or AA#5, but it leaks out around the drum a little and gums up the motion.

If you are devoted to using Unique, you're already doing better than I can throwing that stuff. I'd expect to see 0.2 gr ES in my hands. But this isn't benchrest rifle, and you're probably going to see more variation in velocity from powder forward/powder rearward effects than charge variation.

 

[gonoles_1980]

Added why I took that weight of powder.

I guess I am just anal when it comes to this stuff, I appreciate the comments. I'm devoted to whatever power is on the shelf.

As for this being a light load, I would appreciate corrections, my sources for this load are as follows:

Speer 14th addition page 946 44 Rem Mag 240gr Speer LSWC
Unique: 6.5 to 7.0

Alliant online manual:
http://www.alliantpowder.com/reload...owderlist.aspx&type=1&powderid=3&cartridge=33

Caliber    Bullet     Case Minimum Bbl Primer   Powder  Charge Weight  Velocity Notes
                       OAL (inches)       Length             (grains)       (fps) 
	
44 Rem.  240 gr cast  	1.605 	   7.5 	CCI 300 	Unique 	7 	 899 	-
Magnum    LSWC Speer

But then the Layman 49th edition is confusion, it used a linotype bullet which is hard lead, my understanding, close to jacketed loads. It shows the load as 10.0 to 11.7 load.

I am using the xtreme 240 gr LSWC which is harder than Speer 240gr bullet, but not by much. I think 12 vs 15 BHN, while the BHN of a linotype is around 21?

With such difference I go with the bullet maker and the powder maker.

 

[buck460XVR]

Unique is one of those powders that shoots very well when measured by volume, thus is is a great powder for folks who like to use dippers. A basic powder measure throws charges by volume, not by weight. Just sayin.....

As for the .75 difference, like MEHavey said, your handgun will never know the difference.

 

[maxxhavoc]

I agree, that load does seem very light, especially since I just got finished packing 8 grains of Unique behind a 250gr LFP for a .45 Colt replica. So I checked Alliant's data, and he is loading about 5% below the listed charge, which is a good idea.

44 Rem. Magnum 240 gr cast LSWC Speer 1.605 oal CCI 300 Unique 7gr 899fps
45 Colt 250 gr Speer LSWC Winchester 1.6 oal CCI 300 Unique 9.5gr 941fps

So one of these looks wrong to me. Either he is going to have some real powderpuffs or I am going to end up with Uberti fragments everywhere. Gotta double-check my load log book again (and a couple books) when I get home.

 

[MEHavey]

Alliant's 44Mag/240/LSWC/Unique data is significantly lower than found in most references.

 

[gonoles_1980]

maxxhavoc I have shot about 50 rnds with this load, based on feel only, it is heavier than the 44spl titegroup loads I load for my wife, but a lot lighter than the plated BE-86 loads I run. I am perfectly will to go to a higher load. But I sure wish the data was more consistent (kinda like throwing unique ).

I have two sources, Alliant powder maker and Speer the bullet maker have the same load data, then layman is a full 3grs higher than the max in either of those.

 

[ljnowell]

maxxhavoc I have shot about 50 rnds with this load, based on feel only, it is heavier than the 44spl titegroup loads I load for my wife, but a lot lighter than the plated BE-86 loads I run. I am perfectly will to go to a higher load. But I sure wish the data was more consistent (kinda like throwing unique ).

I have two sources, Alliant powder maker and Speer the bullet maker have the same load data, then layman is a full 3grs higher than the max in either of those.

Alliant and Speer being the same is normal, they are both owned by the same parent company.

 

[X-Ring]

Alliant and Speer being the same is normal, they are both owned by the same parent company.

And they are both for a swaged bullet not a hard cast one. Speer dosn't make or sell a cast bullet, only swaged.


added
Naturally, Speer doesn’t show data for a cast 240g. But, the 250g sast SWC on page 948 shows 11.0g Unique as max. A heavier bullet will generally use less powder than a lighter one so 11.7 listed by Lyman for the 240g cast is close.

 

[Mad Chemist]

I have gone as high as 11gr of Unique with a 240gr SWC BHN 18. That was from a Ruger RH. Most .44mag guns can easily handle up to 10gr Unique with any 240gr bullet.

Anything below 7gr is going to give sooty smutty cases but performance should still be acceptable at short ranges.

 

[gonoles_1980]

I am getting sooty cases. My gun is a Super Redhawk 7.5" barrel. I just want a moderate load, the following is my heavier load.

11.3 gr BE-86 with xtreme copper plated 240 FP. Though since I had a flake come off during my last round of shooting, I'm thinking of lowering to 11.0.

That all said, sounds like I can move above the 7grain limit. Should I try upping at .5 grains each time? Seems safe to do that up to 9 gr. This is more a practice load so I don't get worn out.

 

[gonoles_1980]

X-ring thanks for the added info, never saw the cast on the last page. Right now I have Speer 240gr LSWC which matches their load data, soft bullet at 12 BHN. Yesterday I used xtreme 240gr LWSC which is 18 BHN.

Based on the updated info, I will adjust up on my future loads.

Right now I have 250 rnds using the Speer bullets at 6.7, I have 100 rnds using the xtreme bullets with the 6.7 load. Sounds like I really need to move that up, big time depending on the bullet. Since the layman uses a linotype which is 21 BHN, xtreme LSWC has a BHN of 18, I could probably go straight to 9gr. That is a big jump. I might try 8.0 out first.

Do I need to pull the xtreme bullets? I hope not.

Amazing that BHN makes that much difference.

 

[Buck13]

44 Rem. Magnum 240 gr cast LSWC Speer 1.605 oal CCI 300 Unique 7gr 899fps
45 Colt 250 gr Speer LSWC Winchester 1.6 oal CCI 300 Unique 9.5gr 941fps

So one of these looks wrong to me. Either he is going to have some real powderpuffs or I am going to end up with Uberti fragments everywhere. Gotta double-check my load log book again (and a couple books) when I get home.

Go back to Alliant and check the .44 Mag entries for 240 gr cast RNFP or 250 gr (Keith). Those show real magnum loads. The 240 LSWC table seems to be recipes for light Cowboy Action loads in .44 Mag cases.

Your Uberti should be fine. If it blows up, you double-charged.

 

[Buck13]

Do I need to pull the xtreme bullets? I hope not.

Do you mean are you going to stick a bullet in the bore? I seriously doubt it. Shoot the first dozen at a short enough range that you can see the holes and be sure each shot adds a hole, if you want to be reassured. Or chrono a few rounds if that is an option.

 

[Jim Watson]

Set the load to 6.7 grains. I'd weight every 25 loads, and it would look like 6.8 gr, but I just retoss and have 6.7 grains. Seems like I was getting about .75 grains in error throwing the Unique. Could never get it to settle down and be consistent. So I probably have loads from about 6.65 to 6.775.

This makes no sense. You say ".75 grains in error" and then say "loads from about 6.65 to 6.775," a spread of .125 grain, which you might read as -.05 to +.075. Decimal points matter.
A low to high spread of .125 grain is extremely good for a coarse powder like Unique.
And what are you using to weigh powder charges to the .005 of a grain with, anyhow?


Now that I have the math out of my system...
What is really going on with the widely different published loads is that they stopped at 899 fps with the swaged Speer bullet so you wouldn't get much barrel leading.

You could load the plated heavier, like a cast bullet. But there is a speed limit there, too; too high velocity and you can strip the copper plate off which is a real mess.

 

[rsrocket1]

Looks like your error spread is 0.125 grains or about 0.0625. Maybe you mean three-quarters of a tenth of a grain or 0.075 grain. That is excellent for Unique and your other variables in loading will probably cause more spread than your powder drops.

If that bothers you, you can put more effort (waste time) looking for Hodgdon's Universal. It is their competition to Unique and virtually copies it by weight in hand loads. It meters better and burns more thoroughly when used in underpressure loads but it will still be sooty and smokey. Plus it costs more than Unique.

My preference is to simply use US made Unique. My PPM and LnL powder measures work perfectly adequate for the powder.

 

[Buck13]

You could load the plated heavier, like a cast bullet. But there is a speed limit there, too; too high velocity and you can strip the copper plate off which is a real mess.

I think he's talking about these, not plated.

http://www.xtremebullets.com/44-240gr-SWC-p/x44-240swc-b0500.htm

Xtreme doesn't sell a plated SWC in .429

 

[Buck13]

I'm devoted to whatever powder is on the shelf.

Words to live by.

For 250 gr Keith bullets, Alliant says max 11 grains of Unique at 1211 fps. So, that would be safe, but maybe not what you want for this purpose. But you can take the data you're using, and that data point, and interpolate the charge to get roughly whatever velocity you are hoping for. Since the difference is four grains and 300 fps, adding one grain should get you about 75 fps.

 

[Rule3]

Even if you are getting 0.1 grain variance with Unique that is actually pretty good. Do you have a baffle in your powder measure?. If not you might want to buy or make one. Or just be sure and keep the measure almost completely full all the time. It helps but it's still going to vary a bit. Even a RCBS Uniflow or similar will vary that much

That said, don't even think about weighing you bullets, as you will go into shock at the variance found there.

Bottom line, as mentioned don't worry about the .1 gr of Unique.

 

[gonoles_1980]

Jim Watson, forget the math, I mixed my high end, and +/- error which wasn't the same, the spread is what I really had .

Buck13 those are the exact bullets, also do a simple expolation of BHN between the loads, it looks like I will try an 8.5 load with the xtreme 240gr LSWC the next time.

Rule3 - I finally just got away from measuring all my brass .

 

[Shootshellz]

Instead of Unique try some Accurate Arms #5. Very similar burn rate as Unique but it is a ball type powder that flows very well through my RCBS Uniflow powder measure.

 

[dwhite]

Ran some .40 rounds over the weekend with a charge of 5.6 grains of Unique dropped through my Lee PPM. Had no more than an 0.2 grain variation on the rounds I checked. I felt this was pretty good for Unique.

All the Best,
D. White