Indiana: "Council passes [anti-CCW] security rules"

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cuchulainn

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from the South Bend Tribune

http://www.southbendtribune.com/stories/2003/02/12/local.20030212-sbt-MARS-A1-Council.sto

February 12, 2003

Council passes security rules
Gun shop owner warns about workers' safety

By JAMES WENSITS
Tribune Political Writer

SOUTH BEND -- An armed man who warned that passage of an ordinance implementing new security procedures at the County-City Building could turn government workers into "guaranteed victims" was heard politely but ignored Tuesday as the St. Joseph County Council unanimously approved the measure.

Len Grummell, owner of a South Bend gun shop and longtime gun rights advocate, cited constitutional protections for gun owners and recalled the helplessness of 9/11 victims as he attempted, without success, to persuade council members to either defeat the measure or to table it for further study.

The council session also became a forum for citizens' rights advocate Carole "Kelly" Havens, who questioned the advisability of passing the proposed "wheel tax" even though the matter wasn't on the agenda and couldn't, by County Council rules, be brought up for comment.

Although county security personnel began limited enforcement of the County-City Building security measures Monday, Grummell managed to enter the building Tuesday night armed with a semiautomatic handgun, which he said he has a permit to carry.

Because the ordinance, which forbids weapons being carried into the building, had not yet been passed, Grummell was allowed to keep his weapon after displaying his permit to carry it. He said his right to carry the gun is protected by the Second Amendment to the Constitution and by the Indiana Constitution, which says, "The people shall have the right to bear arms for the defense of themselves and the state."

Grummell hinted that others in the audience were also carrying weapons, but none were displayed, including Grummell's, and no one else said he or she was armed. Recalling the helplessness of the 9/11 airplane passengers because they were unarmed, Grummell likened their plight to that of county and city workers. "This is a large airliner, gentlemen," Grummell said of the government building.

Grummell was not alone in opposing the ordinance. Robert Krizmanich, a Maple Road resident, told the council members that money spent on providing more security for the County-City Building would be better spent on providing more county police road patrol cars.

Havens also chimed in, accusing the council of creating a security risk by essentially telling muggers that those citizens attending late-night meetings at the government building are unarmed and thus easy victims.

Grummell and others asked that the ordinance be modified to allow gun-carrying employees and visitors to the building to put their weapons in lockboxes, where they could be collected when leaving. But County Police Chief Deputy David Nufer, who praised the council members for their "excellent job" in crafting the bill, said lockboxes are "not an idea we want to entertain" because of the potential for accidental discharge should a weapon be dropped.

Council Member Mark Catanzarite, D-District G, said lockboxes will be provided for those employees authorized to carry weapons, but not for visitors. Catanzarite said he disagreed with detractors and believes the council stands "on strong legal ground" in passing the ordinance. "Our whole effort is primarily for the safety of visitors and employees," said Council Member David Niezgodski, D-District E.

The council vote included passage of an amendment that extended the definition of law enforcement officers to include an extensive list of federal, state and local officers allowed to carry weapons while on duty. The amendment also exempted county judges and magistrates from having to pass through metal detectors when entering the building. Council President Rafael Morton, D-District D, said the amendment was passed because the council knew the judges wanted the exemption and because the judges have that right.

Havens used the public comment period at the end of the council session to bring up tax issues. Knowing that the public hearing on the so-called wheel tax is set for March 11 and that no public discussion of the measure was to be allowed, Havens simply brought up past passage of county option tax ordinances and used those measures to question the need for any new taxes. The wheel tax measure calls for a surtax on vehicle registration -- $25 on most passenger vehicles and up to $35 on heavy trucks.

"Our option taxes have grown to some $30 million annually," Havens told council members, "$18.8 million of it going into your budget. Yet you don't have enough?"

Havens said that the option tax ordinances were sold to the public in part on the premise that some of the money could be used for road projects and repairs. "What 18 million other things took precedence over your promises to us?" she asked.

Council members did not respond directly to Havens, but later defended use of option tax funds on such projects as construction of the new county jail, construction of the new juvenile justice facility and providing infrastructure for such job-producing projects as the expansion of the AM General plant in Mishawaka, producer of the Hummer H2 vehicle.

"We are not wasting government tax dollars," Niezgodski told a reporter. Morton said the need to replace the former county jail and the former Parkview juvenile facility represented the primary motivation for the option tax passage. Catanzarite said option tax funds have also been used to improve county ambulance services, particularly to outlying areas.

Staff writer James Wensits:

[email protected]

(574) 235-6353

Copyright © 1994-2003 South Bend Tribune
 
I’m so confused. I though Indiana was the bastion of a gun friendly society? :confused:


Just giving our resident Indiana advocate a hard time ;)
 
I leave the area, and look what happens :rolleyes:

This sounds like a belated reaction to what happened in next-door Elkhart county's commissioner meeting. I couldn't find it in any of the local newspaper's websites, but here is someone's personal account. The details of this are near the bottom of the essay.

http://paulhager.org/why022.htm
 
cordex, it WILL be a waste of the taxpayer's dollar. Good thing we're doing just fine on money here!:rolleyes:

Let's see we can do something about roads. No, no, no that may encourage business, we won't be doing that.

We could abolish the inventory tax in our county. No, no, no that would again encourage business. The last thing we need is employment and prosperity.

Uh, we could improve educational standards for government skuls. No, no, no we can't do that. The unions would be all over us and the last thing we want to do is think of the future.

I know, let's pass another feckless law placating soccer mommies! Quick, call a quorum!
 
ahenry, commissioner's property, think of it as a .30-'06 sign.
I was just yankin’ your chain. I actually think it is important to freedom in general for a location to be able to dictate whether or not they allow guns. The only exception to that is at gov’t installations. Disallowing weapons there starts becoming a gov’t infringement on my rights.
 
... as the St. Joseph County Council unanimously approved the measure.
The measure was passed by the County Council; but what if I am in the building on City business? Am I not then operating on City regulations and, since the city doesn't seem to have the same regulation, can I then not retain my firearm? I should only be restrained from having the firearm in the building if I am there for County business. It's not my fault that they are both located in the same building; but since the function of the building is shared wouldn't it be like having two businesses in the same building -- one of which restricts firearms and the other which welcomes them?
 
Can a city criminalize carrying a gun anywhere? What is the proposed penalty? Is it a felony or a misdemeanor? What court can imprison people for violating a city ordinance? Can the ISP revoke a license for violating this piece of municipal malfeasance? These are not rhetorical questions.
 
jim, like I sez, it's the commissioners building. They set the conditions of entry. The joys of unigov.:rolleyes:

varmit, to answer your questions:

1. No;
2. Don't know, ordinance violation, neither felony nor misdemeanor (however, PA could conceivably stretch violation into Criminal Trespass as a Class A misdemeanor, 0-365 days, $0 to $5K fine), county can set penalty under certain range, does not state which class of violation;
3. No, ordinance violations are civil only here. However, court, if finding of contempt, can jail one for violation of its order;
4. Maybe or it depends, if the facts underlying the ordinance violation shows that one is not a "proper person" as defined in the I.C..

"Municipal malfeasance"! I am stealing this.:D
 
South Bend, Bloomington, Central Indianapolis, Gary, Terre Haute......All these places in Indiana are liberal hideouts.
 
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