Indiana Resident Living In Florida

[Raapatel]

I was recommended by a friend to visit this forum to have my question answered. Currently, I have an Indiana Drivers license and I live in Florida. I've been there for 2.5 years and will be there for another 1.5 before I move out of the state. I wanted to purchase a pistol for the first time. Now the legal issues behind that is what I am concerned about. Living in Florida with an Indiana drivers license, am I able to purchase a pistol there? If not, can I have a friend (who is a FL resident) purchase the pistol, and then buy it from him?

Also, how does purchasing from an online store work? If I was to pick up the gun from a major online retailer, I know that I'm supposed to have it shipped to a FLL and pay the fees. Would being an Indiana resident prevent me from picking up the pistol? I'm not really sure how to go about this. I want to try and avoid paying any additional fees if I can. Any help or advice is much appreciated. Thanks!

 

[NavyLCDR]

Why are you/have you lived in Florida for 2.5 years without getting a Florida driver's license is the first question. That will determine the proper answers to the questions you asked.

 

[Raapatel]

I'm a graduate student in that state. I'm there for a four year program and will be leaving once I graduate. I still have a permanent address in Indiana, and it reflects on my license. The car I'm driving is insured under my father's name, who is an Indiana resident. I assumed that keeping my Indiana drivers license would make things easier for him in terms of insuring the car. I very well could be wrong but I hope this helps.

 

[MedWheeler]

I cannot remember for sure, but I believe you are in violation of Florida's DL laws, having been "residing" within the state for over thirty days. If you have taken employment in any form, enrolled any children in any public school, or been a student enrolled in a college or university which has had you in a work-study program in Florida for over six months, you are required to obtain a Florida driver's license to operate a motor vehicle. It's possible you can apply for a state ID card which, though not a DL, is issued by the DL office. Call them and see; I'm not sure that you can have one while maintaining an active DL in another state but I don't see why not. As far as the state knows, you don't drive a motor vehicle in Florida, right? Without such a license or ID, you will not be able to prove Florida residency for the purposes intended. Having someone else buy the firearm for you would, by law, be defined as a "straw purchase." Of course, he could buy the gun as a "gift" for you. Tread carefully.
Regarding online purchase: No, the FFL is not permitted to release the gun to you if you are not a resident of the state.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Without such a license or ID, you will not be able to prove Florida residency for the purposes intended.

Not true.

Having someone else buy the firearm for you would, by law, be defined as a "straw purchase."

True, and be a Federal felony.

Regarding online purchase: No, the FFL is not permitted to release the gun to you if you are not a resident of the state.

For the purposes of firearms transactions, Raapatel is a Florida resident during the times he/she is present in Florida for attending school.

http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-4.pdf
Pages 126-127:

ATF Rul. 80-21
Applying the above example to outof-
State college students it is held,
that during the time the students actually
reside in a college dormitory or
at an off-campus location they are
considered residents of the State
where the dormitory or off-campus
home is located. During the time outof-
State college students actually
reside in their home State they are
considered residents of their home
State.

Page 136:

ATF has received questions from
licensees regarding purchasers who
present a State-issued driver's license
or other identification document that
shows either an out-of-date residence
address or a mailing address (such as
a post office box) in lieu of a residence
address. ATF has advised that
these identification documents, standing
alone, would not satisfy the requirements
of the regulations
implementing the Brady Act.

Thus, for example, a licensee may
accept a valid driver's license that
accurately reflects the purchaser's
name, date of birth, and photograph,
along with a vehicle registration issued
by the State indicating the transferee's
current address.

The licensee must record on the
Form 4473 the type of identification
document(s) presented by the transferee,
including any document number.
Examples of documents that
may be accepted to supplement information
on a driver's license or
other identification document include
a vehicle registration, a recreation
identification card, a fishing or hunting
license, a voter identification card, or
a tax bill. However, the document in
question must be valid and must have
been issued by a government agency.

It is quite true that Raapatel might be in violation of Florida's driver's license law. Raapatel, when you are receiving a gun from a Florida FFL, you would put Florida on the form 4473 as your state of residence, prove your identity with your Indiana driver's license and your state of residence with a supplementary government issued document that shows Florida as your state of residence.

 

[22lr]

I spent a year in school down in Florida, had a Florida registered car with a IN drivers license. Never had a problem (registered the car at the florida DMV and they never mentioned it). Just throwing that out there.........

 

[KsThumper]

I can not address the FL DL issue but if the OP is over 21, he is qualified to purchase a firearm in Florida once he can prove residency.

Firearms Transction Record

Section B of ATF Form 4473 are completed by the 'Seller' [FFL]

Question 20a verifies Identity [Gov't photo ID with Name, Address, DOB]

"Issuing Authority and Type of Identification"
"Number on Identification"
"Expiration Date of Identification (if any)"

Question 20b records an alternate address [if driver's license or other identification document does not show current residence address]

For example. if a U.S. citizen has two States of residence and is trying to buy a handgun in State X, he may provide a driver's license (showing his name, date of birth, and photograph) issued by State Y and another government-issued document (such as a tax document) from State X showing his residence address.

I am a resident of Kansas for voting / taxes and own and reside in a second home in Colorado for 4-months of the year. I would be able to purchase a firearm in Colorado once I am able to demonstrate residence. In section A Question 13, I would write in Colorado.


27 CFR § 478.11

State of residence. The State in which an individual resides. An individual resides in a State if he or she is present in a State with the intention of making a home in that State. …. The following are examples that illustrate this definition:

Example 2. A is a U.S. citizen and maintains a home in State X and a home in State Y. A resides in State X except for weekends or the summer months of the year and in State Y for the weekends or the summer months of the year. During the time that A actually resides in State X, A is a resident of State X, and during the time that A actually resides in State Y, A is a resident of State Y.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Looks like, according to Florida statute 322.031, full time college students are exempt from obtaining the Florida driver's license.

 

[Raapatel]

Thanks for the quick responses everyone. Alright, so let me try to make sense of all of this. According to KsThumper, it looks like I can use my Indiana license, and prove residency with other Florida documentation. I'm currently a student and unemployed. Would paper mail work for my 'other documentation'? I have plenty of loan documentation that I receive.

In regards to having this purchased for me as a 'gift'. I don't really know the legal implications of doing something like that. If i were to have my friend buy from a major retailer, something like Bass Pro Shops, would I be in the clear? Probably won't go this route but I'm curious to know in case I have resort to it. Thanks again!

 

[MedWheeler]

Navy, you wrote that he is not required to have a state ID to prove residency, then follow with this:

prove your identity with your Indiana driver's license and your state of residence with a supplementary government issued document that shows Florida as your state of residence.

That "supplementary government issued document that shows Florida as your state of residence" is the state ID card I mentioned, and it is issued by the Florida DHSMV.
Yes, he, as a FT college student, he is not required to obtain a Florida DL to drive in the state. However, that's not what he asked about. He's asking how to identify himself as a Florida resident for the purpose of a firearm purchase within the legal requirements of such identification. I'm not sure if a FFL can accept only his college ID as such. Even if he (the FFL) can, he might not know it, and err on the side of caution by accepting only state-issued ID..

 

[NavyLCDR]

That "supplementary government issued document that shows Florida as your state of residence" is the state ID card I mentioned, and it is issued by the Florida DHSMV.

It certainly can be a state ID card (I possess a Wyoming Driver's License and a Washington ID Card), but it is not required to be. Your original statement of:

Without such a license or ID, you will not be able to prove Florida residency for the purposes intended.

is still not true.

Page 136 of http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-4.pdf

"The licensee must record on the
Form 4473 the type of identification
document(s) presented by the transferee,
including any document number.
Examples of documents that
may be accepted to supplement information
on a driver's license or
other identification document include
a vehicle registration, a recreation
identification card, a fishing or hunting
license, a voter identification card, or
a tax bill. However, the document in
question must be valid and must have
been issued by a government agency."

Raapatel, paper mail is not enough to establish Florida residence, unless it happens to contain a government document such as listed above.

In regards to having this purchased for me as a 'gift'. I don't really know the legal implications of doing something like that. If i were to have my friend buy from a major retailer, something like Bass Pro Shops, would I be in the clear?

You do understand that a gift means the friend buys the gun with their own money, out of their own pocket, gives you the gun as a gift, and receives no compensation in return, either for the gun or for the act of buying it? If the friend receives any compensation from you for the gun or for the act of buying it, it becomes a straw purchase.

 

[justice06rr]

Regarding buying a firearm from a friend, there's really no issue with it since there is no registration system in FL. As long as you are not a felon or prohibited from owning firearms, i dont see an issue with that.

Pretty much anyone can buy firearms from someone else here. I've bought and traded firearms with other people. Some do not even ask to see a license or CWL (even though I have it). Of course the law may say something different, but really FL is a very lax state when it comes to firearms.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Regarding buying a firearm from a friend, there's really no issue with it since there is no registration system in FL. As long as you are not a felon or prohibited from owning firearms, i dont see an issue with that.

There is a huge difference between buying a firearm from a same state resident friend and having a friend buy a firearm for you.

Buying a firearm from a friend is a private transaction - perfectly legal in most states with no paperwork required.

Having a friend buy a firearm for you is a Federal felony.

 

[Raapatel]

Based on the helpful responses above, I believe I have two options.

1. Obtain a Florida ID card from the BMV and then purchase the pistol from wherever I please, due to the fact that I will have a State issued ID in addition to my Indiana drivers license.

2. Purchase a fire arm of my liking from a friend. I should be okay since there is no registration of the weapon in the state of Florida and the purchase will be a private transaction.

Am I correct?

 

[NavyLCDR]

Based on the helpful responses above, I believe I have two options.

1. Obtain a Florida ID card from the BMV and then purchase the pistol from wherever I please, due to the fact that I will have a State issued ID in addition to my Indiana drivers license.

2. Purchase a fire arm of my liking from a friend. I should be okay since there is no registration of the weapon in the state of Florida and the purchase will be a private transaction.

Am I correct?

Correct. Also, if we are talking about a rifle, you do not have to be a resident of Florida or have any Florida ID to purchase or receive a rifle from an FFL in Florida. Same state residency is only required for non-rifles and non-shotguns purchased/received from FFLs. Same state residency is required for any private firearms transaction not going through an FFL. You are a resident of Florida for the time you are present in Florida to go to school there, it's just a matter of having enough documentation to show that to an FFL for a handgun purchase/transfer. No residency proof/documentation is required by law for a private transaction - but a private seller may not sell to you. I personally would, if I knew you were enrolled in a Florida college.

 

[Zombiphobia]

http://www.fdle.state.fl.us/Content/home.aspx

someone here can answer your questions. Don't take legal advice from armchair lawyers on the internet

 

[MedWheeler]

Navy, I still don't see clearly that the lack of a state-issued ID can be overcome by any other documents. In trying to help me, you quoted as follows:

Examples of documents that
may be accepted to supplement information
on a driver's license or
other identification document include
a vehicle registration, a recreation
identification card, a fishing or hunting
license, a voter identification card, or
a tax bill. However, the document in
question must be valid and must have
been issued by a government agency."

However, all I see is a list of documents that can be used to supplement "information on a driver's license or other identification document", but I don't see that any of them can actually replace such ID. Can you elaborate? Thanks.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Navy, I still don't see clearly that the lack of a state-issued ID can be overcome by any other documents.

MedWheeler,

You are changing your original statement now. Your first statement was:

Without such a license or ID, you will not be able to prove Florida residency for the purposes intended. for the purposes intended.

The OP, Raapatel, can use his Indiana driver's license to prove his identity. In Indiana that can also be used to prove Indiana residency during the times he is present in Indiana with the intention of making a home there. In Florida, Raapatel uses his Indiana driver's license to prove identity. He may then prove Florida residency using a supplementary government issued non-identifying document such as a tax bill, vehicle registration, or something related to government financial aid.

And, in fact, military members can use their Federal government issued active duty military ID card and a copy of their orders and purchase firearms from FFLs without ever showing a state issued driver's license or ID card. The military ID card establishes identity, and the orders is the supplementary government issued document that establishes residency.

Now, the very interesting question becomes, can I use my Wyoming driver's license, which has my Washington address listed on it be used to prove residency in Washington?