Indoor gun range, with store front.... Good Idea? Profitable?

[Sniper_Ewok]

It was just an idea... soooo no go on the charge for outside ammo... i can reload for almost 1/3 the cost for my 45

 

[Cannibul]

If you're willing to charge the exact same price (or less) as Walmart, for factory ammo, then I wouldn't complain. Otherwise, you're forcing people to pay more for their ammo than they have to - so you can make a profit on it - just to shoot at your range. I personally feel that's an offensive move that would turn people off. It would turn me off PDQ. But maybe I'm unusual.

I think it's completely reasonable to sell ammo at your range for more than Walmart. You'll get plenty of business from people who run out of ammo, appreciate the convenience, or simply don't care about price. But to require people to buy it.... nah. Perhaps people will appreciate low-cost reloads. But personally I wouldn't run anyone's reloads in my gun. And I wouldn't feel I was getting a deal on a box of reloads that cost the same as a box of Federal target loads at Wally World. I'd feel ripped off. Which would make me feel like never coming back.

Just my .02.

It's going to be impossible for an independent shop to sell at or close to Walmart"s price...unless they want to lose money hand over fist.

I won't shoot anywhere I don't get to keep my brass. That includes any ammo I might purchase from the location.

If you're going to sell reloads you'll need a 06 FFL and lots of liability insurance. As sure as God made little green apples you're going to have someone have a problem and sue you.

To the OP. Do you and your buddy plan on being there every hour the place is open including at least an hour before it opens and an hour after it opens?

 

[ford8nr]

So you ( and I ) can reload for 1/3 - 1/2 the cost of factory .45
What do you think you could sell them for to make your reloading TIME worth while on a larger scale ?
You've got a business to run and everything YOU don't do you have to pay someone else to do.
I'm not sure how much 'free' time you have, I can barely keep up reloading for myself.

 

[mdThanatos]

There is a range/store that I don't frequent because I don't like the staff that I end up dealing with. With that being said, the owner is making money hand over fist and just opened up a second location on the other side of town/county within the past year or so.

I do not know how he does it but he is a big Ruger dealer and often advertises that and has sales on them. His ammo prices are quite competitive with Walmart, Academy, Cabelas and a couple of other local stores. He does the most business out of all the stores that sell firearms and ammo. The range has 10 lanes I believe, 8 pistol and 2 rifle, 25 yards max. They have a restriction on steel case and steel core. The fee is $10 for about 45 minutes, depending on how busy the range is. They do have rentals, you have to purchase a box of ammo in order to rent. I don't know who his supplier is but he has had pretty consistent prices over the past few years and has had a steady supply, even of .22 LR, and he has had a limit on quantity for that. Based on the store and range combo, his has been very successful and I don't see any signs of it slowing down at all.

 

[zeke]

Without a very good air venting system, regular lead reloads can be very annoying. Joined a brand new indoor range 2years ago, bout 350-400/year. Very nice range and they have rentals, firearms, courses/instruction and suppressors. Called Fireline inc, and they just opened a new one. By providing a clean safe place to shoot , with nice bathrooms, they bring in a lot of the newest shooting market, which appears to be women. Good lesson for all ranges.

 

[chicharrones]

The steel case and steel core restriction is common at the indoor ranges I go to.

One indoor range deeper in the city used to require lead free ammo being used. I haven't followed up to see if that is still a requirement there.

I too have seen range purchased ammo a requirement for rental guns.

 

[Triggernosis]

And its absolutely a must to leave your brass after shooting... every range ive ever been on has been like that...

I'll be damned if that would fly with me! I load all of my ammo, so I'm taking MY brass home with me, whether it hits the floor or not. If it falls forward of the firing line, no. But otherwise I take it with me.

 

[Triggernosis]

No way I'd ever go to a range that made me shoot their reloads. Ever.

And if I was charged extra money to bring my own ammo, same thing. Deal breaker. It sounds like your money-grubbing because it's a money-grubbing move. People aren't going to get warm & fuzzy over such rules.

The thing about not even getting to keep your own brass is even more icing on the mud pie. Every range I've been to locally here - indoors & out - allows you to keep whatever brass falls behind the firing line (assuming you're policing it up in a timely manner).

I think these are all bad ideas.

I agree.
OP, if you're going into this endeavor with the mindset that you've revealed so far you'll never make it. Just what kind of ranges have you been shooting at to develop this kind of mindset? Did you enjoy shooting there? Were you treated well?
I don't mean to sound so harsh, but going into gun range business and trying to skim profit off folks by using their brass is just not good business in my opinion. If you want to make money, build a nice range, treat people with respect, require them to shoot safely, and make it enjoyable for your customers and they will come.

 

[coyotehitman]

If you're willing to charge the exact same price (or less) as Walmart, for factory ammo, then I wouldn't complain. Otherwise, you're forcing people to pay more for their ammo than they have to - so you can make a profit on it - just to shoot at your range. I personally feel that's an offensive move that would turn people off. It would turn me off PDQ. But maybe I'm unusual.

I think it's completely reasonable to sell ammo at your range for more than Walmart. You'll get plenty of business from people who run out of ammo, appreciate the convenience, or simply don't care about price. But to require people to buy it.... nah. Perhaps people will appreciate low-cost reloads. But personally I wouldn't run anyone's reloads in my gun. And I wouldn't feel I was getting a deal on a box of reloads that cost the same as a box of Federal target loads at Wally World. I'd feel ripped off. Which would make me feel like never coming back.

Just my .02.

Is Walmart providing you a range to shoot their ammo? Convenience has a cost, and you are responsible for covering that cost. A nominal range fee is not enough to cover the cost of running the range AND to turn a profit on goods being sold. As for your comment on reloads, you pull the trigger and the gun goes bang. Why should you pay less because a reload caused it to go bang? Would Federal target loads from Wally World do more than go bang for the same money?

To the OP, here is a prime example of the mentalities you'll encounter running a business. Individuals who believe they're ENTITLED to pay less and ENTITLED to get more. Otherwise they have their feelings hurt and, "feel like never coming back."

 

[readyeddy]

I would pay a higher range fee if I could bring my own ammo and keep my brass.

 

[strambo]

I won't comment too much on rules since I don't even like indoor ranges no matter what their rules are (I still can't draw and shoot and move). But, definitely don't start out loading ammo! That also frees you up to not care about them keeping the brass. Depending on liability, I can see not allowing reloads...but if someone blows their gun up with their load would the business be exposed anyway?

Seems like certainly having ammo for sale, but letting people bring their own and keep the brass would be the way to go. Heck, you can always start with looser rules and slowly tighten in areas if you see a problem.

Good luck! I briefly considered it, but it is a high investment, high amount of capital tied up (in the guns for sale) and low profit margin on the guns. I'm also in a big metro area that already has ranges. The range is probably a solid profit margin, just have to pay back the construction loan. If you would be the only game in town, it could very well be a great idea. I know in spite of my dislike of indoor ranges, I'd go there to rent a few guns when considering a new purchase and buy from you if your prices were only slightly (not obscenely) over internet+shipping+FFL fee.

 

[JSH1]

The air quality is already being worked on... thats where i was going with the fire marshall comment... he knows the state reps that we need. I was thinking of reloading for shop rounds. You can bring your own, 5 or 10 dollar fee to use unlmtd rounds of your own... or fee is waved if you buy from the store... i also cast my own rounds already, so i can drive the cost per round way down. And its absolutely a must to leave your brass after shooting... every range ive ever been on has been like that...

That statement makes it sound like you aren't going to comply with the required regulations for indoor air quality because your partner is the Fire Marshal and you know the local politicians. It sounds like your business model is getting people to look the other way - which is a good way to go to jail and or lose your life's savings in a lawsuit. If you don't have $1-$2 million to invest you likely don't have the money to open an indoor range.

As to rules: I won't shoot at a range that requires me to use their ammo or makes me pay a fee to bring my own ammo. I also won't shoot at a range that tries to take my brass.

A new range opened 2 years ago in a strip mall near me. It has 12 lanes at about 20 yards. They sell their own reloads, charge $5 a box to shoot your own ammo, don't allow personal reloads. You have to buy targets from them ($2 each) and they charge $25 per person to shoot. They have a posted rule that you can't "collect or pick up brass". I was shooting a revolver and placed my empties back into the box. The owner tried to check my bag on the way out to take my brass, said that was his brass once it was fired. I said the hell it is and walked out and have never been back. They are still open but not very busy.

 

[azrocks]

Is Walmart providing you a range to shoot their ammo? Convenience has a cost, and you are responsible for covering that cost. A nominal range fee is not enough to cover the cost of running the range AND to turn a profit on goods being sold.

As I've never owned or managed a gun range, I won't comment on whether or not it's possible to turn a profit without forcing people to purchase ammo at prices they could beat a mile down the road. All I will say is that at least two extremely successful indoor ranges that I'm aware of locally manage to do it, and do it quite well. If they can I don't see why others can't. They have plenty of ammo for purchase in-store at prices that allow them to make money (above Walmart), but they certainly don't force you to use their ammo (excepting rental guns which is reasonable). Perhaps their strategy is the same as mine would be if I decided to get into the business.... make people feel like they're being treated fairly. Because for every 10 people that come through that door, at least one or two of them is going to buy something besides range time. Personally speaking, I can't count the number of boxes of ammo I've purchased from my nearby range, because ONCE YOU'RE THERE, you certainly don't want to give up your lane to run back to Walmart every time you run dry.

As for your comment on reloads, you pull the trigger and the gun goes bang. Why should you pay less because a reload caused it to go bang? Would Federal target loads from Wally World do more than go bang for the same money?

Why should I pay less for ammunition remanufactured by some start-up outfit using consumer-level equipment & brass they're probably trying to squeeze the last ounce of life from? Seriously?

To the OP, here is a prime example of the mentalities you'll encounter running a business. Individuals who believe they're ENTITLED to pay less and ENTITLED to get more. Otherwise they have their feelings hurt and, "feel like never coming back."

LOL. And the take-away from this is what? Despise your customers for being needy? Or actually filling that need in order to get and maintain their business?

Sounds like you're jaded. Probably because you look for reasons to hate on your customers instead of finding creative ways to leave your customers feeling good about your business while still making a buck.

 

[chicharrones]

Seems like certainly having ammo for sale, but letting people bring their own and keep the brass would be the way to go. Heck, you can always start with looser rules and slowly tighten in areas if you see a problem.

That definitely happens. The two ranges I mentioned initially allowed double taps or even mag dumps. Now it's one shot per second, thanks to people that have lost muzzle control of their guns.

 

[stoky]

A group of investors here envisaged an ostensibly a private club, with some business hours accessibility to the public with a per visit fee. IIRC, they got down to the short strokes, when it got kiboshed by some fed TLA or another.
It might be worth a re-look with the recent changing of the guard.

 

[George Dickel]

I suggest you talk to the owners of a few indoor ranges near you and find out the ins and outs of the business. It sounds like you have a dream but haven't investigated into anything about what it will take to operate a range let alone complying with EPA regulations, building codes or financing. Another big thing, for a new small business to succeed the owner better be living at the business and not trusting the operation to a manager. I know the owners of two ranges where I live and have talked with them a bit about the pitfalls of getting a range going. First thing is, it's very expensive to build an indoor range. The air filtration system is a big part of the expense and the maintenance of the system is also expensive. Filters have to be changed on a regular basis and if they aren't and some one makes a complaint to the air quality regulators, you will face some seriously expensive fines. One of the ranges in town received new filters for their system and they were the incorrect filters. He shut down his range for 3 days until the correct filters could be received. The owner told me that he could face a $25,000 fine if some one reported bad air quality in or outside the range to the authorities and they inspected and found the filters were not working. One owner built a new facility, gun shop on top and a range in the basement. His investment was well over of $1,000,000. The other owner bought an existing building that had been a range in the past. Bringing it up to current standards and codes his investment was just a bit south of $1,000,000. Both of these men had existing gun shops that had been in business for a few years before opening a range. The point here is that these guys owned successful businesses that had value and had demonstrated business management skills which are huge factors a bank or investors are going to look at when considering giving a loan to start up a new range. Regarding brass, 95% of the shooters are going to leave their brass anyway as they are not reloaders. I reload so telling me that if the brass hit the floor it belongs to the store will not get you my continued use of your facility. Rethink this part.

 

[boom boom]

Warning, long post ahead:

I live in an area where there are multiple indoor ranges that are convenient, well maintained, and usually pretty busy. Most are now equipped to handle normal rifle calibers, with a few that allow some magnums (about .300 WinMag). Some have rentals and some don't. Some have memberships with privileges, and some don't. etc.

Given that range, I can tell you which ones that I choose. One issue is air quality--the newer ranges generally have better air quality. Better ranges keep the floor litter down by keeping the range clean.

Another issue is proper supervision. Indoor ranges often have issues with inexperienced shooters (or ignoramuses that refuse to do better) replete with poor muzzle control, spraying bullets downrange, those who seem to purposefully damage the equipment or building, doing silly stuff such as posing for selfies, and so on. You need a rangemaster that has a firm but fair grasp and not hesitate to enforce your range rules--you may lose a few customers but will gain a bunch. There are certain ranges that I simply pass by because they allow stupid and unsafe behavior, particularly on their busy days. If you are renting semi-auto or full-auto rifles, then you need to redouble your efforts. Two of the most up-to-date ranges require an orientation video for all new customers.

Regarding reloads, some allow them while others don't. Some also allow frequent and well behaved customers or members latitude. One issue is that lead bullet lubes and loads that use certain powders with incomplete burning often create a smoky range which makes things unpleasant for others. Another is the concern of poorly crafted reloads that can create liability issues. Last, but not least, is the concern over backstops which have differing strengths and weaknesses. For example, recently even on this board, we have had reports of a range fire due to someone using tracers which set fire to a shredded rubber type backstop. Other things included using steel core ammo, occasionally WWII era AP rounds, etc. which can shorten the life of many of the backstop options. While posters here often moan about indoor ranges banning steel cased ammo, I do know of one range fire locally that was started by a combination of poor range hygiene (slovenly cleaning of the range), poorly adapted structure (at a down at the heels shopping center), lack of fire suppressive technology, and steel cased ammo setting off the unburnt powder kernels on the floor which in turn caused a building fire. Ranges also receive little or nothing for scrap steel while brass is much more valuable. I generally buy a box or two of the range's ammo and then also fire my reloads but I switched from firing lead to plated in my pistol reloads.

On brass retention, most have allowed me to keep the brass that I fired but I have often seen people trying to hoover up brass all across the range and these people generally get slapped down. A few require that I pay a separate fee to keep my brass or buy a membership. The toughest places on brass generally are the ones that reload the brass into ammo as a separate profit center. One even has the firing line over steel grates where you can't get to your brass if it drops down. I generally talk to the range people first before coming in so I know what the range rules are. I have some fairly obscure and hard to obtain rifle calibers for which I reload and tell the range folks that. I am okay with paying a dollar or two additional range fee to keep my brass because some of the brass that I fire runs $1 each and ranges that permit full bore rifle rounds are fewer in number. The worst ranges, in my opinion, try to take all the brass and require you purchase the range's reloaded ammunition. These I avoid.

Regarding retailing,
One range focuses on selling used guns (has a pawnshop license) with a few new hot sellers, training through classes, immediate accessory goods such as gun cleaning supplies, range ammunition, holsters, gun accessories such as cases, grips, lasers, etc. FFL transfers, small gun safes and other security type equipment, pistol sights, small selection of pistol caliber reloading material, etc.

Another one focuses more on reloading and rifle related materials. Some focus on concealed carry, having a gunsmith on premises, and so on. A general gunsmith that focuses mainly on things like aftermarket trigger and sight modifications, cleaning, scope mounting, etc., and general troubleshooting, can be quite a draw. Similarly, training classes, if properly advertised and taught, can lead customers in to buy whatever else is needed for tasks such as home defense, etc. from you.

Generally, this is my personal opinion, focus on selling items that are either convenience and impulse items that are relatively low in cost such as holsters, etc. that often people want to see/try on in person or are consumables that are are used after a range outing such as Hoppes #9, bronze bore brushes, boresnakes, and the like. Then find another major revenue source which could be hands-on-training for example or offering gunsmithing. Neither of which are available online or from big box stores. You could also sell a bit of bulk ammo such as 500/1000 rounds at a competitive price to drive store traffic.

Regarding the business end, what I would suggest is to do a full business plan workup prior to doing anything. For example, marketing--who is your targeted customer, what would you try to sell them, what accessory goods will they need? how would you reach them?, what is your competition?, and so forth. Who will be your employees and how will you manage them? Obviously, revenue has to be a focus, financing, etc. Running any small business is difficult, time consuming, and ultimately can be rewarding but full of pitfalls, heartaches, and possibly financial ruin.

I grew up working for my father who was a small businessman for most of his life and I have a bachelor's degree in business which included marketing, management, finances, and accounting. Despite all of that, I chose to take another path primarily because I saw the hardships and hassles that he dealt with. If you do go forward, be aware of your personality type (and that of your partner's), know that you probably can't just hire someone to do all of the drudge work and then you reap the profits, at best, most likely, you will make a small profits working your butt off which may be less than what you could earn working for someone else. Realize that the more that you finance with leverage, the greater the risk to your business due to unforeseen events--govt regulation, fire, theft, lawsuits, health,etc. . You will need to be cold-blooded about your investment--there are times when it is better to sell your business and there are times that it better to close up shop. And there are times that you will need to ditch a partner either through a buyout or worse or fire someone who has become a friend because they can't or won't do their job.

 

[Jim Watson]

My experience with lane rental ranges is not great. I paid in advance for the indoor range under construction here and will have a year to find out.
I have seen enough to know that "no draw" and "slow fire" rules are reasonable for a lot of their clientele. I can get in some useful shooting that way even though it does not practice my IDPA. I am going to show the operators material on ASI which is considerably simplified from IDPA or IPSC and see if they care to get into some light competition.
I have seen where brass bounces off the dividers enough to know that a dedicated brass scrounger would be tempted to sneak in front of the firing line or over into the next lane. Can't have that. But if they get huffy and want to confiscate my brass for their gain, they will find that I have a revolver and a .22 which will get me through that prepaid year. Buy their ammo? No.

 

[Blacksmoke]

I sure wish we had an indoor range here. Not for hundreds of miles. Anyone wishing to add one has my vote!

 

[ATLDave]

The two ranges I mentioned initially allowed double taps or even mag dumps. Now it's one shot per second, thanks to people that have lost muzzle control of their guns.

Any range with those rules loses me as a customer.

 

[Sunray]

There are hundreds of posts like this on every firearms forum. Answers start with, "What's your and/or your buddy's experience running a small business?"
Next would be, "Do you have the money to live on for approximately 2 or 3 years?"
Next is, "Do you have enough cash to pay COD for everything you plan on re-selling?" You will not get credit terms from anybody when you're new. You won't get loans from banks either.
Have you looked into the cost of liability insurance? (has nothing to do with reloading either.) The local environmental ordinances? Venting lead etc, contaminated air directly outside is illegal in most places. It's what ford8nr's Hepa filter is about though. And that may not be enough. The local ordinances will cover that.
Zoning? Not sure what that is called, Stateside, but it's about what kind of business can operate in a particular municipality. Not all of 'em, even a "2nd Amendment supported area", will want an indoor, centre fire rated(there isn't one currently for a reason), range in its back yard. There's a reason "nobody can try firearms before owning in our area." too.
You going to buy the building or try to rent? What's it cost and do you have the money to cover the rent/mortgage without any income for the time you're building the range, etc.? If you rent the landlord and very likely the local municipality will expect you to have insurance to cover any mishaps.
You going to have employees? Employees cost money(good ones will also make you money though). Got it? Or are the two of you going to work 6 or 7 days per week?
What Wally World does is irrelevant. You cannot compete with 'em. Neither can any other small shop. So don't even try to.
Kind of suspect that confiscating brass will close you faster than anything else.
Like boom boom says, you need a business plan before you need anything else. Oh and you'll be paying a lawyer too.

 

[AZAndy]

My local indoor range has a gun shop, though it's small. There are also a couple of classrooms for CCW and other classes. Have a look at the website and see if you get any ideas. The range is 25', rifles below .50 are allowed, target motors are computer-controlled. I've never used any, but they have a really nice assortment of rentals-- mostly pistols, but at least a few rifles and carbines too. They bag and sell the left-behind brass but have no problem with you keeping yours (and the range guys will keep your cases swept towards you, which is a nice touch). Pretty good assortment of ammunition, and even some (overpriced) powder and primers. A side wall has hangers for grips, holsters, magazines, speedloaders, et cetera.

 

[CraigC]

Small or large doesn't make much difference. The filtration requirements are going to be extremely costly.

Summer=Indoors=$$$

At least around here.

Exactly! I grew up in central Florida and an air conditioned indoor range was a wonderful thing. Summer or winter, the range was always full.

 

[LiveLife]

These ranges seem to be doing well. They suggest making ranges family/women friendly and clean to appeal to more customers. Some have 100 yard indoor range!

 

[browningguy]

There are three in our area within about a 5 mile radius, and they all seem to be doing well. I will say that when my wife and daughter want to go shooting it's always to the indoor range they want to go. One we've stopped using just because of the bad attitude, they have a service to sell, and I have the money to spend, if the service doesn't meet the standards I have for spending my money it goes somewhere else.

The crowd that actually has money to spend are looking for a professional place, not Bubbas Guns and Stuff. The customers you want are the dentists and chiropractors that ride around on their Harleys on the weekends, and professional people that have a decent paying job. To be honest Walmart shoppers probably aren't going to be your best customers, if they have to check the cushions for change to go buy the cheapest ammo available at Walmart how much will they have left to spend at your shop? I'll say this more than once, sorry if you get your feelings hurt, but we are talking about starting a money making business.

I have a small business making furniture on the side, when people say they can buy a Hall table for $200 at the local Furniture Barn I just nod politely and let them pass on by, because the right customers know about quality wood and finishing and are willing to pay $1200. And to be honest I couldn't make a living making $200 tables. And you cant make a living catering to people worried about a quarters difference in ammo prices compared to Walmart.

Even if you are starting small you need a small lounge area with seating for 5-10 people, all three of ours stay busy and if people just have to stand around they tend to leave, if they have a place to sit and talk they stay and shoot.

Have a clean looking display area, and keep it clean through the day.

Have some drink and snack machines near the seating area, they can be a good profit maker.

You have to make a profit but you don't have to make a killing off every customer. Price everything to make a realistic profit, people will know when they are being gouged. Most customers will probably bring their own ammo to start, when they see your prices are reasonable they will start buying from you rather than making a separate trip to pick up ammo.

I think the quote above about being the same or cheaper than Walmart is wrong for the kind of customers you want. People that are willing to pay a little extra for convenience are the kind of customers you want, not folks that are going to nickel and dime everything to death. Business is business, you want the customers that have, and are willing to spend, money. Sorry if people are offended but that's life, a small business cannot match Walmarts pricing power.

Treat your customers with respect, they probably aren't ninja warriors, and you don't need to pretend to be one.
Make sure all the staff dresses professionally, you aren't SWAT and no one is impressed just because you dress like them.

From some of the ideas above-

I never shoot someone else's reloads, no exceptions.
You're going to charge me extra to shoot my own ammo? I'm going somewhere else.

Good luck to you, it's a capital intensive business to get started but can provide a good return on your investment.