Darthbauer
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Is it just me or is the 2000 yards thing a bit of BS? All the talk on that web site just put me in a bad mood.
Info from the Brady Campaign on 50BMG
- Thread starter Darthbauer
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Is it just me or is the 2000 yards thing a bit of BS? All the talk on that web site just put me in a bad mood.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
What can be done with a .50 is not BS. What's left out of their babble is that a human target must remain in place without moving during the flight-time of the bullet, and that the shooter must know both the trajectory and wind to perfection.
Airplanes in motion aren't as easy a target as many people think. I and many other guys have missed drone-towed targets at 800 yards with full-auto quad-.50s.
Also what's omitted is the fact that many other hunting rifles can also hit stationary targets at 2,000 yards. Anything from a .308/'30-'06 on up to a .460 Wby...
Art
Airplanes in motion aren't as easy a target as many people think. I and many other guys have missed drone-towed targets at 800 yards with full-auto quad-.50s.
Also what's omitted is the fact that many other hunting rifles can also hit stationary targets at 2,000 yards. Anything from a .308/'30-'06 on up to a .460 Wby...
Art
pgeleven
Member
when they say 'ammunition sites' does that include the sport department counter at wally world? anything on this earth can be twisted into a description that makes it sound like the most evil thing in the world. we need more positive media out there, such as this old gem:
Cmdr. Gravez0r
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Wow, I appreciate them enlightening me on this one. Who'd a thunk it.
benEzra
Moderator Emeritus
And using exactly the same criteria, a .30-06 deer rifle can "inflict effective damage" to a target over three miles away, and a .22LR pistol can "inflict effective damage" to a target over a mile away.
Never mind the fact that to do so would require the firearm be elevated ~30 degrees above the horizon so that the scope is seeing nothing but sky, the bullet is traveling at BB-gun velocities by the time it hits the ground, and even a target the size of an aircraft carrier would be exceedingly difficult to hit at that range.
Since you can't aim (scope pointed at empty sky), you'd have to use the Force. Maybe the Brady Campaign should try to outlaw the Jedi arts while they're at it; it would make just as much sense as what they're doing now.
Hell, the black powder .45-70, used by US troops and civilians starting in the 1870s, is still used in competition at 1000 yards. It's quite accurate, if it's loaded right.
The Billy Dixon legend says that he knocked an Indian off his horse with a .50-70 at more than a mile. Others say 1538 yards. Later measurements by a surveyor put the real distance at a bit over 1000 yards.
So while the original story was a bit exaggerated, the truth was still impressive.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_6_51/ai_n13781619
These rifles were, obviously, primitive by modern standards. These were the working rifles of the professional buffalo hunters, with iron sights.
So a claim that a modern rifle with a high-power scope could, theoretically, hit a person at 2000 yards, doesn't mean much. Of course it can. But how often has this been done? Every hunter knows you can miss a big deer at 50 yards with a sub-MOA rifle. And what importance does the theoretical range of the .50 BMG have in terms of public safety or military strategy?
Note that our enemies in Iraq use roadside bombs, not .50 BMG rifles. IED's are a terrorist threat many orders of magnitude greater than any rifle, both in terms of real-world fatalities we can count, and their potential.
The Billy Dixon legend says that he knocked an Indian off his horse with a .50-70 at more than a mile. Others say 1538 yards. Later measurements by a surveyor put the real distance at a bit over 1000 yards.
So while the original story was a bit exaggerated, the truth was still impressive.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_6_51/ai_n13781619
These rifles were, obviously, primitive by modern standards. These were the working rifles of the professional buffalo hunters, with iron sights.
So a claim that a modern rifle with a high-power scope could, theoretically, hit a person at 2000 yards, doesn't mean much. Of course it can. But how often has this been done? Every hunter knows you can miss a big deer at 50 yards with a sub-MOA rifle. And what importance does the theoretical range of the .50 BMG have in terms of public safety or military strategy?
Note that our enemies in Iraq use roadside bombs, not .50 BMG rifles. IED's are a terrorist threat many orders of magnitude greater than any rifle, both in terms of real-world fatalities we can count, and their potential.
DoubleTapDrew
Member
Box cutters have destroyed far more commercial aircraft than .50BMG. I guess a 1/2" hole in something= DESTROYED to the brady bunch.
I think I'm going to have a slice of thouroughly destroyed cheese (swiss) on my turkey sammich.
They have always enjoyed trying to drum up hysteria for something that is not, and never has been, an issue.
I think I'm going to have a slice of thouroughly destroyed cheese (swiss) on my turkey sammich.
They have always enjoyed trying to drum up hysteria for something that is not, and never has been, an issue.
sadlsor
Member
quote:
They have always enjoyed trying to drum up hysteria for something that is not, and never has been, an issue.
You're almost correct, DoubleTap... but remember, ANYthing can become an issue to the corn-fed, dumbed-down masses who choose to remain uninformed.
Not that there's anything wrong with corn, mind you... unless you're being fattened up for the kill.
In any case, as relates to the Brady lemmings, that would be, more accurately, DIS-info or MIS-info. Handgun Control Inc. and the gun banners aren't interested in information, unless they can spin and distort it.
They have always enjoyed trying to drum up hysteria for something that is not, and never has been, an issue.
You're almost correct, DoubleTap... but remember, ANYthing can become an issue to the corn-fed, dumbed-down masses who choose to remain uninformed.
Not that there's anything wrong with corn, mind you... unless you're being fattened up for the kill.
In any case, as relates to the Brady lemmings, that would be, more accurately, DIS-info or MIS-info. Handgun Control Inc. and the gun banners aren't interested in information, unless they can spin and distort it.
El Tejon
Member
Corn is for the livestock. Gun owners eat raw meat, washed down with gun oil.
While perhaps not a daily event, numerous confirmed kills have been achieved at 2000 meters and beyond in the sandbox. The .408 Chey-Tac has at least two at over 3000m. Obviously this is in the hands of highly trained military shooters with all the equipment that goes with this level of shooting. Predictable first round hits at these ranges are no accident. The anti's are afraid of cheap .25 pistols with 2" barrels, and these, and everything in between. It makes no difference, they intend to get them all.
sadlsor
Member
...they intend to get them all.
You're too correct, BWB. Anywhere there's a toehold, or a precedent, we're losing ground; i.e., our right to own or to carry.
The garden-ghetto variety of cheap "SNS's" are just another tactic - they DO intend to relieve us / steal from us, every weapon we currently own, and those we would ever hope to own.
I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but consider this ludicrous overstatement for effect: there are very few* cases of armed robberies with a .50.
*For honesty's sake and in the interest of full disclosure, I haven't heard / read of any, but that's not to say no one has ever tried to commit robbery with a BMG. I wouldn't want to mislead anyone.
You're too correct, BWB. Anywhere there's a toehold, or a precedent, we're losing ground; i.e., our right to own or to carry.
The garden-ghetto variety of cheap "SNS's" are just another tactic - they DO intend to relieve us / steal from us, every weapon we currently own, and those we would ever hope to own.
I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but consider this ludicrous overstatement for effect: there are very few* cases of armed robberies with a .50.
*For honesty's sake and in the interest of full disclosure, I haven't heard / read of any, but that's not to say no one has ever tried to commit robbery with a BMG. I wouldn't want to mislead anyone.
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